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quote:

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Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
Would the age of a track have any bearing on how fast a dog worked the track?

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A great track dog to me is the one that has his coon a high percentage of the time. Way to much credit is given to the good scorecard dogs that are consistent cast winners with 10 trees scored and 5 coon seen and 5 circled. FAST wins hunts, thats a fact of life as long as trees keep growing leaves, but to assume a first tree dog is a fast trackdog is flawed thinking. JMO

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If we went hunting and you did not take a dog and my dog struck and just mosied along with the track and a while later treed with the coon what would think. !- good track dog, 2-fair track dog, 3-cant get out of a rain shower,

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And thinking that 5 circle trees will do much winning is also flawed thinking.

Note I made a point of saying fast tree dog WITH A COON.

Look at the scorecards that are winning UKC hunts. The ones that win around here have alot of plus tree points and very few minus or circle points.
Case in point. UKC hunt Friday night at Howe, In. NtCh winning score had 75+tree and four 125+ trees. No circle trees, no minus.

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Last edited by JiM on 07-25-2011 at 01:44 AM

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quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
And thinking that 5 circle trees will do much winning is also flawed thinking.

Note I made a point of saying fast tree dog WITH A COON.

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quote:

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Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
If we went hunting and you did not take a dog and my dog struck and just mosied along with the track and a while later treed with the coon what would think. !- good track dog, 2-fair track dog, 3-cant get out of a rain shower,

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does the speed of a track dog rely on the age of the track?

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SHAWNEE HILL'S BLACK AND TANS

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quote:

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Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
does the speed of a track dog rely on the age of the track?

---

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Jim what about a dog that opens a couple of times and than shuts up and catches the coon on the ground in our big corn fields in Iowa. You guys are talking about first tree, but what about catching on the ground. I think if they are catching them on the ground they are running hard to. Does that mean they have track speed or are they smart.

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Registered: Sep 2003
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If old sport strikes a track and blows out of the country then it would be safe to say he was on a hot track. and on the other hand he struck and had a hard time miving the track it may be a old track. If we agree on this then what conclusion can we come to about a TRACK DOG.?

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I think it boils down to the difference between fast and good. And that difference is accuracy. Everybody wants that dog with both so we can win the world.

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I enjoyed posting with you. I do agree that you and you alone know what kind of a track dog you own. some of the dogs we hunt against are better and some are not quite as good. NOW that brings us t the handlers, As for me I do not believe in a SLICK handler they are honest or a cheat PERIOD. But we were talking about track dogs not handlers.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Dentre
Jim what about a dog that opens a couple of times and than shuts up and catches the coon on the ground in our big corn fields in Iowa. You guys are talking about first tree, but what about catching on the ground. I think if they are catching them on the ground they are running hard to. Does that mean they have track speed or are they smart.

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How many dogs will even hunt together. That's the only way to know. If they do make a tree togrther once do they do it again. More than one tree has to be made to truly determine whose faster. A dog that's gets to the tree first with company and then stays by himself the rest of the night cannot be judged. That would be a nice one but you couldn't make a determination.

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JiM,
I have to say that I respectfully disagree. Arguably the fastest track dogs around are the coyote or fox dogs. And if you could get a coyote dog to run junk [coon] he would likely outrun many of our coon dogs. But when he got close to the tree, the superior locating ability of our modern coondogs would give the coondog a high likelyhood of getting to the actual tree first. IMO, the fast high scoring coonhounds of today are what they are because of speed of locating, and I think that there are fast track dogs that are slow locaters, and slow track dogs that are fast locaters. And vice versa. And when you have that combo of both fast on the ground, and fast locating then you have a dog to brag about. Most of us tote around dogs that are stronger in one area than the other, and we work them long enough and hard enough that they figure out the other part too.
Now a real fast track dog might get enough of a lead that he can be a bit of a slow locater and still get first tree- I think that happens a lot, but as others have pointed out, there are dogs that are mediocre track dogs that can consistently slide in there for first tree by being a quicker locater. In my early years of hunting I had a combo of a fast track dog and a quick tree dog. The grandson of Rock RIver Banjo would completely out track my Lone Pine female, but once they were near the tree she took over- always got first tree on a coon that she could not even track in the beginning.

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I think that most any hunter that has seen enough dogs go , can make a fair judgement on track speed by distance traveled on track and time used to get treed.

But Jim is right.
Any dog that is getting a good share of first trees ending in plus points , probably ain't no slouch.

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Well heck Truely, I expect the fastest are greyhounds and the slowest are prolly bassets but I'm talking about coonhounds.

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Hunt in the day time and SEE. the day we put garims on coons alot of people will be trading. Imagination don'y play tricks on you. Think about it>. You could tell to the second how old the track was the dogs struck and also if the coon is up that tree. Cheap Coon Garmins will change many dog owners.

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What it boils down to is, is the dog fast enough for it's owner to keep it? lol

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Running track or feeding track?
Clean open woods, thick woods, fields?
Briars, Grapevines, Cut over Timber?
Hilly? Flat? Mountains?
Ponds? Creeks? Lakes?
How humid? How dry?
Moon Cycle? Barometric Pressue? Storm Coming?
Rain? How heavy? How recent?
What are the coon feeding on?
What are the temperature conditions?

There are a lot of variables in the woods and conditions we hunt in. I've only mentioned a few.

And, don't forget that the coon we are running is also a variable. Not all coon think the same, act the same, and run the same. Coon don't all smell the same either---some will leave more scent or less scent, or stronger scent or weaker scent (these are different).

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quote:

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Originally posted by honalieh
Running track or feeding track?
Clean open woods, thick woods, fields?
Briars, Grapevines, Cut over Timber?
Hilly? Flat? Mountains?
Ponds? Creeks? Lakes?
How humid? How dry?
Moon Cycle? Barometric Pressue? Storm Coming?
Rain? How heavy? How recent?
What are the coon feeding on?
What are the temperature conditions?

There are a lot of variables in the woods and conditions we hunt in. I've only mentioned a few.

And, don't forget that the coon we are running is also a variable. Not all coon think the same, act the same, and run the same. Coon don't all smell the same either---some will leave more scent or less scent, or stronger scent or weaker scent (these are different).

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quote:

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Originally posted by Jim Hill
you want a fast track dog?? get yourself a chop mouth track dog

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quote:

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Originally posted by john nannemann
amen

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From JiM:
"I think the only good way to judge a track dog requires you to have something to compare your dog to. It seems to me the easiest way to make such comparisons is simply which dog gets treed first AND HAS A COON"....

JiM, what percentage of coon that are treed in Indiana do you think were tracked to the tree? Compared to coon that are winded/located or some other version of a layup coon?

I think a lot of us that hunt in parts of the country where there is more tracking involved think that a fairly high percentage of Indiana [northern at least] are treed with little tracking involved. IMO I don't really consider it "tracking" if a dog gets treed within 100 yards of where it first opened. I mean, that coon could have been tracked, but many parts of the country a "track" would mean at least a 1/4 mile chase.

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I wish a track did mean a chase. I love a race but so many times my dogs take a trail for a quarter of a mile and once the coon realizes the dog is on his trail, up a tree he goes. I guess that would indicate a good trail dog but without another dog going head to head on a trail or a hot track there is just no way of knowing. Then all you have is two dogs to compare, one might be slow and the other medium. All that can be determined is which of the two is faster, but it doesn't say either is fast.
Generally, dogs on a cld trail are not moving that fast and all are bunched up together and it probably comes down to the best locator if it just climbs. A hot running race gives the dogs a chance to put distance between themselves at times. Even with two fairly even good track dogs the temporary leader will still make momentary losses, usually by overrunning, and the other will pick it up. That dog should open up and tell the other dog, and you, he has it and you should hear more out of that dog till he makes a misturn and so forth. Two dogs working together can definitely cover more ground with faster overall trackspeed. I do understand when you are hunting against another dog it is easy to pat yourself on the back and decide that dog is just riding your dogs back. Maybe it is but it ought not be saying much. However if both or all three dogs are yours you get a clearer grasp on the concept of working together. At this point you will tell me that since they are mine that I am just making exscuses for the other two. Not so, I hunt about six dogs in many different multidog combinations as well as by themselves. I can pretty well tell which is in the lead the most in he marsh, another might lead more on a cold track and another might lead more when it gets fresher. Any one can do it by itself, it just takes longer on rough track and long running coons. Popups and short chases shouldn't take long at all and any single dog should be looking good..

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