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Rocketman55
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Registered: Aug 2008
Location: SE Ohio, Glouster
Posts: 2206

Babbling Rule and Stationary Rule

Well after reading the upcoming Babbling rule I can see it is another area within the rules where you as a handler loose the right to call your dog. Your dog will now be scored by what a majority of the cast thinks it is doing rather than what YOU the handler (who knows the dog) (in most cases) better than anyone else in the cast. thinks it is doing. This rule will be used to either get you to take minus, or to delete your strike points, and in either case it will be done to get the dog to loose the points placed on the score card.

This also happened with the injection of the Stationary rule where the judge ( who probably doesn't know your dog) determines when your dog is treeing satisfactorily, and applies a rule in an effort to get you to take minus.

Sorry to offend so many of you but what in the !@#$%^&* are you thinking!!!!

It looks to me like this competition game is headed toward placing all dogs on one Garmin system, put that system on Bark Detection mode for all collars, put that up on the big screen for all handlers to see, and then let the Garmin determine which dog opens first and which dog trees first and write their scores on the card according to how they were recorded on the Garmin. I think in the long run you will get a more fair and honest reflection of how your dog scored on that particular night.

Sorry adjustment to the rules IN MY OPINION!!!!!!!


That will make it more to the video game many seem to be pushing for.

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Old Post 12-14-2019 06:16 PM
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benderb4
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Everywhere
Posts: 45

Re: Babbling Rule and Stationary Rule

quote:
Originally posted by Rocketman55
Well after reading the upcoming Babbling rule I can see it is another area within the rules where you as a handler loose the right to call your dog. Your dog will now be scored by what a majority of the cast thinks it is doing rather than what YOU the handler (who knows the dog) (in most cases) better than anyone else in the cast. thinks it is doing. This rule will be used to either get you to take minus, or to delete your strike points, and in either case it will be done to get the dog to loose the points placed on the score card.

This also happened with the injection of the Stationary rule where the judge ( who probably doesn't know your dog) determines when your dog is treeing satisfactorily, and applies a rule in an effort to get you to take minus.

Sorry adjustment to the rules IN MY OPINION!!!!!!!



This is copied and pasted from a quote on another answer.
' "Speculation" and "obvious" are, by definition, two very different words that have been used in debate as it relates to dogs running deer or fighting without actually seeing it. One is; rumor, gossip, assumption, guesswork, supposition, hearsay. The other is; clear, apparent, evident, recognizable, observable._

Myself, I'd never scratch a dog for running deer or fighting based on speculation._

so why would you be allowed to minus or delete a dogs strike points because you speculate ,guess,or assume, based on this quote from another thread it must be obvious ,clear, apparent, ?

I don't understand?
If we think a dog is running deer unless we see it we can't minus it.Not assumption or speculate.Because it's not fair.
If we think 2 dogs were fighting we must see it to scratch them.Not assumption or speculate.Because it's not fair.
If we think a dog is babbling we can minus it cause we think it is without any proof it actually babbled ?Isn't that assumption and speculation? But this is fair and okay?

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Last edited by benderb4 on 12-14-2019 at 09:49 PM

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Old Post 12-14-2019 07:08 PM
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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
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An honest strick dog doesnít stand a chance. The babbler is not going anywhere. Dogs now days make babbling look to good. The ones hunting them will never be man enough to say they are hunting one. Strick points are as useless nowadays, donít mean chit anymore. I say we all hunt a babbler, have a first strick calling contest before we cut them loose. An whichever dog trees the most coon wins. The stricking in part of a dog in these hunts is a joke.

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Old Post 12-14-2019 09:53 PM
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Sgraves
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I have a question for the ones who are hunting a babbler an calls it a track dog . During all that barking that your dog does , do you actually know when it strikes a legit coon track. Or does it really matter, as long as your toting first strick. Quite a few people says a silent mouth dog should be against the rules. But I say any type dog that runs through the country looking for a hot pop up is know different than the other. The only difference is the babbler gets first strick an the other gets whatís left. If your serious about the competition side of it , then why not have a dog that gets its mouth open quick. Honest or not.Its more about what we can win than worrying about what makes a real coon dog anyways.

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Old Post 12-14-2019 10:12 PM
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randywoodard2
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Registered: Jun 2018
Location: Lafayette Georgia
Posts: 97

Hunts

Dont think it really matter anyhow, last dog i titled out i would strike my dog and then another handler would holler strike his dog! Buddy system at its best. Theyd be like sorry he got it!! Hunts have always been a joke. Only thing u can do is hope your dog can slip off and get one , so until grown men start acting like thier grown and call the dogs for what they do its always gonna be like this

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Old Post 12-14-2019 10:36 PM
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2ol2hunt
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Don't be that way Randy!!! Lol 😂

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Old Post 12-14-2019 11:06 PM
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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
Don't be that way Randy!!! Lol 😂



I have learned to like last strike lol.


Tar

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2ol2hunt
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The BOOK says"the first shall be last and the last shall be first"..... I'm just saying... lol 😂

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Old Post 12-15-2019 12:04 AM
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Sgraves
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quote:
Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
The BOOK says"the first shall be last and the last shall be first"..... I'm just saying... lol 😂
The truth will have the final say so.

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Richard Lambert
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...And the truth shall set you free.

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shadinc
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novicane65
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Take it for it this is worth to ya......

If your dog gets 100 strike off the snap +90% of its casts chances are a babbler. Sorry if the shoe fits.

I've owned this type, they can get you in the winners circle but I can't stand to "pleasure" hunt one though. I'll stick with the honest strike dogs.

Just more of the sky is falling again.

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Richard Lambert
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Eric, are you saying that they are winners but not pleasure hounds?

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novicane65
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Eric, are you saying that they are winners but not pleasure hounds?


Sometimes.......
I don't find any pleasure hunting them. But if the dog gets its mouth open and parks under a coon 6/10 times, it will win 75% or better of its casts. But the trick is to be able to hunt that style and like them enough to keep hunting them.

P.S.
I can name a bunch of dogs that are this type. But I'll refrain from doing so.

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DJames
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I have always hunted honest strike dogs and accurate treedogs and have won a fair share of hunts but if i never win another hunt it wont change the type of dogs that i try to breed, raise and hunt.

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Rocketman55
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if i never win another hunt it wont change the type of dogs that i try to breed, rais

David I whole heartedly agree with you. If I continue to get misused or deleted because my dog opens on a colder track than the majority in a cast, I will simple continue to breed the style dog I like but what I may do differently than you is I may have to find a registry that doesn't penalize an open trailing hound for striking a track the other two or three silent trailers won't open on. The jury is out (for me) till after the $200,000.00 hunt has been finalized and we see how these new rules are utilized when the money is on the line so to speak. I'm betting they won't be utilizing hunting judges in that scenario, like the majority will have to hunt by using the new 2020 rules.

But if they really want to test the integrity of this new rule change, they will allow hunting judges even in the finals. Then the big money men and/or women that played a role in implementing these new babbling rules will find out just how easily a cast can and will be manipulated when the game is on the line.

JMO But hey This is STILL America isn't it??

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G.W. Harring
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Registered: Nov 2016
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quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
.......The stricking in part of a dog in these hunts is a joke.
.......Its more about what we can win than worrying about what makes a real coon dog anyways.


I agree.

As long as the rules of the competition give an advantage in points to a dog for opening first......you will ALWAYS have loose mouthed babblers being entered in that competition attempting to gain that advantage.

Treeing the most coon in a set amount of time with the least amount of mistakes should be the goal.

Barking 1st, 2nd, 3rd or 4th on ??? isn't even on my list when judging how good a coonhound is anyway.

Buuuut that's just my opinion and if someone else wants to feed a babbler...giddy up. Just call it what it is and don't try telling me what a cooold nosed dog you have. LOL

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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
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Buuuut that's just my opinion and if someone else wants to feed a babbler...giddy up. Just call it what it is and don't try telling me what a cooold nosed dog you have. LOL [/B][/QUOTE]

This is exactly right. And if you talk to any of the owners this is exactly what is said almost verbatim. I'm not saying I've hunted or seen the coldest trailing dogs. But it's obvious when your turdeater gets first strike every turn out off the snap.

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thomasg
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I thinks I will just hunt a semi still to silent hound .lol

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benderb4
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Registered: Dec 2019
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quote:
Originally posted by G.W. Harring
I agree.

As long as the rules of the competition give an advantage in points to a dog for opening first......you will ALWAYS have loose mouthed babblers being entered in that competition attempting to gain that advantage.



pardon my dummy. since when? I thought first tree got vantage. wiff nu tree rules on countdown git more points to tree first to.
been huntin round good bit. just like ghost mean nite hunt dogs nu rules dont need to protect.
never saw but a cuple real babblers in hunts . they is ghost to.
yu all need to breed dogs wiff better noses.

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G.W. Harring
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Re: Re: Babbling Rule and Stationary Rule

quote:
Originally posted by benderb4
This is copied and pasted from a quote on another answer.
' "Speculation" and "obvious" are, by definition, two very different words that have been used in debate as it relates to dogs running deer or fighting without actually seeing it. One is; rumor, gossip, assumption, guesswork, supposition, hearsay. The other is; clear, apparent, evident, recognizable, observable._

Myself, I'd never scratch a dog for running deer or fighting based on speculation._

so why would you be allowed to minus or delete a dogs strike points because you speculate ,guess,or assume, based on this quote from another thread it must be obvious ,clear, apparent, ?

I don't understand?
If we think a dog is running deer unless we see it we can't minus it.Not assumption or speculate.Because it's not fair.
If we think 2 dogs were fighting we must see it to scratch them.Not assumption or speculate.Because it's not fair.
If we think a dog is babbling we can minus it cause we think it is without any proof it actually babbled ?Isn't that assumption and speculation? But this is fair and okay?


So to agree with that theory and apply it to the strike, why should you be allowed to give a dog more strike points than the others because you speculate, guess, or assume, that it is "actually striking on coon scent"? If you're awarding up to 75 more points for it, shouldn't it be obvious, clear, or apparent? Or is it more fair to keep assuming and speculating that every time a dog opens off the snap it is smelling a coon and grant it up to a 75pt advantage for doing so? If everything else requires the burden of proof why shouldn't the strike points??

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Sgraves
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The part in the rule where it says ( might not have it word for word). But it says when dog is struck under the min it has to show that it is taking the track out or determined to be false barking. The taking the track out part is the deal. The rule supports it , you canít prove it or a lot of these dogs that are winning big would not be winning near as much. I mean some dogs make it look so good. An they have a coon to make it even harder to prove.

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Bob Hennessey
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[QUOTE]Originally posted by Sgraves
The part in the rule where it says ( might not have it word for word). But it says when dog is struck under the min it has to show that it is taking the track out or determined to be false barking. The taking the track out part is the deal. The rule supports it , [/QUOT]
Under what rule did you find this?

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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
The part in the rule where it says ( might not have it word for word). But it says when dog is struck under the min it has to show that it is taking the track out or determined to be false barking. The taking the track out part is the deal. The rule supports it , you canít prove it or a lot of these dogs that are winning big would not be winning near as much. I mean some dogs make it look so good. An they have a coon to make it even harder to prove.



That's is PKC rules about carrying the track out.

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Night Shift
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there is always a winner and a loser. Most generally one of those losers will be crying wolf after the hunt. Facts are thereís a lot less cheating and a lot more not knowing the rules.

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