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edwardfasteddy
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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

World Champion Hardwood Mandy, UKC Gr. Nite Champion, ACHA Gr. Nite Champion, Grand American Over all Winner 1625+ in a two hour hunt, sold for $30,000.oo in the early 90s. Pups out of her where 2,000 each. Were just getting started here now what for dogs did you say you trained? and Mandy never ran loose......

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Old Post 02-19-2018 03:42 AM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
World Champion Hardwood Mandy, UKC Gr. Nite Champion, ACHA Gr. Nite Champion, Grand American Over all Winner 1625+ in a two hour hunt, sold for $30,000.oo in the early 90s. Pups out of her where 2,000 each. Were just getting started here now what for dogs did you say you trained? and Mandy never ran loose......

Thats not 10 so 30 yrs ago you started one. I noticed that you never made a suggestion to help this guy out you were just a smart a$$ to anyone that did.

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Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
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Old Post 02-19-2018 03:50 AM
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Jason Baldwin
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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Rockmart, Ga.
Posts: 2652

Could it be that dogs are different and some methods work well for some and some methods work well for others ? I think knowing the dogs bloodlines before hand helps. Knowing their tendencies. Had I tried to train previous dogs that I had owned the way I trained prowler then it may not have worked out the same way.

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edwardfasteddy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

No I said I was going to start with that one, and work My way up to the Wipeout dogs of today, I bet I trained more dogs then you ever seen, Redneck!

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Donnie Stevens
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Registered: Jul 2004
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Lol

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Old Post 02-19-2018 05:06 AM
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ole hoss
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: ky
Posts: 2263

quote:
Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
No I said I was going to start with that one, and work My way up to the Wipeout dogs of today, I bet I trained more dogs then you ever seen, Redneck!

😂😂 I know of one that just sold for 32.5 a couple weeks ago as a 1 yr old....he ran loose, know of another that sold for 20k as a 2 yr old, numerous 10ks that all ran loose, turn down 15k for x as a 1 yr old he ran loose. Any pup I own will run loose. I don't worry about deer, coyote, fox or any fast game...most of yall probably think I'm crazy and I am but I'll drop my pups out on them. Theres plenty of tree power in them today I don't even have to break them they break there selves most the time when that fur starts flying.
I don't personally care how any one else starts there's I'm just saying what works for me

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Old Post 02-19-2018 08:03 AM
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thomasg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:
Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
Well there you have it, Let them run loose on a farm, or put them in a coon pen, turn coons out for them, drag a hide around and hang it in a tree. I guess that's all you need to know, WOW!
one more for your list when i worked second shift. i use to just drive to a spot kick them out of the box and go to sleep .if they had it in them after several trips i would wake up and they would be running or treed .

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Old Post 02-19-2018 11:51 AM
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Philip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2147

Not sure what letter this is, lol, catch and turn out, don't hoist coon up to just let them tree, space the timing out as they progress. To me gets then focused on coon. Just takes a little effort trapping. Then you are ready to let go in good locations

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Old Post 02-19-2018 02:10 PM
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CONRAD FRYAR
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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Phillip, That is also the way i do it, had good success with it.

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Old Post 02-19-2018 02:16 PM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
World Champion Hardwood Mandy, UKC Gr. Nite Champion, ACHA Gr. Nite Champion, Grand American Over all Winner 1625+ in a two hour hunt, sold for $30,000.oo in the early 90s. Pups out of her where 2,000 each. Were just getting started here now what for dogs did you say you trained? and Mandy never ran loose......

Cheyenne is working today so I will fill in. We have lived at our current location for over 17 yrs. For 17 yrs pups have ran loose here, some of our own many belonging to others, there are always 1-4 and always has been. On a conservative estimate that is over 250. Chey was starting pups and hunting young dogs long before we moved here. Currently we have 2 running loose (had one go home last week and another come in), 2 young dogs being hunted one is 8mo old the other 11mo both go hunting and can tree their own coon and a several little puppies that are in the big pup pen not quite old enough to run loose full time, it is like this all the time, a revolving door. He was working pups and young dogs long before we moved here. Dogs he has owned or started and sold or started for others have won everything from World Championships, to State titles and state races, winnings in the 100's of thousands. Pups belonging to some of the most well know comp hunters, stud dog owners and plenty of pleasure hunters too have sent their pups here. There are many out there that do not enjoy getting pups going and don't want them back until they are hunting and running and treeing. You spent several post criticising those who offered advice but yet never gave one suggestion to the man asking for advice.


Everyone has their own methods, ours just happen to start out running loose. Nearly every pup benefits from it. Pups learn to navigate the timber, work water, cross fences, ect., it also developes natural independence/indifference and they have the ability to develope more tracking ability. Most are running and treeing by 6-8 mo and will go hunting when taken not stand at your feet. We don't worry about off game because most do pretty much break themselves when coons start coming out. Shockers are never used on young pups, when they are treeing coons consistently then they are broke if needed. We also never pull cage coon up a tree. Because they are not just turned loose and forgot, most develope yard dog smarts by social interaction with the family from kids to now grandkids come when called and follow basic commands aiming to please. When they start running and treeing good running loose it's time to get penned up then the real fun begins.
I realise that many people do not have the opportunity to start pups the way we do so to the man asking his original question the most important thing you can do is get that pup out of the pen every chance you get. Whether it be to play in the yard, ride in the truck or walk in the woods. Start with the basics of obedience and set it up for success by exposure to the woods, be patient pups take time but if you are willing to put in the time and wear out some boots you could end up with something special. I know Cheyenne would be willing to answer any questions that you may have or if you need advice along the way call the number below.
Jen

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

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Old Post 02-19-2018 04:44 PM
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wjoey
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Cheyenne is working today so I will fill in. We have lived at our current location for over 17 yrs. For 17 yrs pups have ran loose here, some of our own many belonging to others, there are always 1-4 and always has been. On a conservative estimate that is over 250. Chey was starting pups and hunting young dogs long before we moved here. Currently we have 2 running loose (had one go home last week and another come in), 2 young dogs being hunted one is 8mo old the other 11mo both go hunting and can tree their own coon and a several little puppies that are in the big pup pen not quite old enough to run loose full time, it is like this all the time, a revolving door. He was working pups and young dogs long before we moved here. Dogs he has owned or started and sold or started for others have won everything from World Championships, to State titles and state races, winnings in the 100's of thousands. Pups belonging to some of the most well know comp hunters, stud dog owners and plenty of pleasure hunters too have sent their pups here. There are many out there that do not enjoy getting pups going and don't want them back until they are hunting and running and treeing. You spent several post criticising those who offered advice but yet never gave one suggestion to the man asking for advice.


Everyone has their own methods, ours just happen to start out running loose. Nearly every pup benefits from it. Pups learn to navigate the timber, work water, cross fences, ect., it also developes natural independence/indifference and they have the ability to develope more tracking ability. Most are running and treeing by 6-8 mo and will go hunting when taken not stand at your feet. We don't worry about off game because most do pretty much break themselves when coons start coming out. Shockers are never used on young pups, when they are treeing coons consistently then they are broke if needed. We also never pull cage coon up a tree. Because they are not just turned loose and forgot, most develope yard dog smarts by social interaction with the family from kids to now grandkids come when called and follow basic commands aiming to please. When they start running and treeing good running loose it's time to get penned up then the real fun begins.
I realise that many people do not have the opportunity to start pups the way we do so to the man asking his original question the most important thing you can do is get that pup out of the pen every chance you get. Whether it be to play in the yard, ride in the truck or walk in the woods. Start with the basics of obedience and set it up for success by exposure to the woods, be patient pups take time but if you are willing to put in the time and wear out some boots you could end up with something special. I know Cheyenne would be willing to answer any questions that you may have or if you need advice along the way call the number below.
Jen

Good post Jen

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423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

UKC PREFORMANCE SIRE Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
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HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
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Just passed away February 4th 2016

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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by wjoey
Good post Jen

Thank you Joe, maybe it will help this guy out. Chey probably wouldn't have been so nice to the thread troller lol.

__________________
Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER PRO SPORT TRUCK WINNER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

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Old Post 02-19-2018 05:35 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1904

X2 on the good post by Jen...

I have trained many pups and they haven’t been out at the farm...they are kenneled but I let them out in the back yard a couple of hours a day and I throw different items in the back yard so they can entertain themselves and they play tug-o-war, chase etc...I also chop up left over meat or open a can of spam and chop it up in squares and cast them out all over the yard and let the pups out to go find...I do this so I can learn how the pups think and operate...I also want them to experience as many different situations as possible...that is why I totally agree with letting them run loose at the farm...

No farm no problem...take them to the woods more often so they can explore and experience different situations...


If interested in finding out about early brain development then do a google search and read about some of this research data, it will be about human brains but you can apply the same concepts to your pup...

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edwardfasteddy
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Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

You say they won 100s 0f thousands and World Chs, States and all that. I would like you to list of at less 4 National dogs. That should be easy out of all them dogs, There should be some on the a All Time PKC Money list with that much winnings. I'm not saying its not true but you can put anything on one of these forums that you want put down, shouldn't be any problem listing several of the big time dogs, it would be good advertising for what your doing...

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Old Post 02-19-2018 10:46 PM
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Night cry
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Registered: Feb 2018
Location:
Posts: 260

Thank you Jen!!!!

Really appreciate your post !!!

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thomasg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:
Originally posted by edwardfasteddy
You say they won 100s 0f thousands and World Chs, States and all that. I would like you to list of at less 4 National dogs. That should be easy out of all them dogs, There should be some on the a All Time PKC Money list with that much winnings. I'm not saying its not true but you can put anything on one of these forums that you want put down, shouldn't be any problem listing several of the big time dogs, it would be good advertising for what your doing...
Since nobody else will say it i will say it for them . . eddy Bet ya couldnt train a flea to jump. When i was in Iowa i hunted 2 dogs in the iowa state pup futurity in 2015 .both raised and trained at my house by me alone . bodie the 2 year old won his cast the first round lost in the second round to mike grooms nice young hound . zeb the 11 month old won both his cast with plus points . both as pups were started on the farm running loose with rat terriers chasing any thing that moved . mostly rabbits in the bean fields . also won the 2015 preston luft memorial hunt in 2015 with bodie on sat. night when he was was 18 months old . not bragging but facts that you can verify for your self .

Last edited by thomasg on 02-20-2018 at 02:50 AM

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Team Mafia 2
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2018
Location:
Posts: 160

Redneck Mafia $30,000 winner Grand Before he was 2
Redneck Backwoods Shack $15,000 won Top 20 of the UKC world 2 years ago final 3 this year turned 5 yesterday
Mafias Late Night Trax Grand before he was 2 has around 6000 won
Satilla River Witch Had around 18,000 won and was a grand
Unstable Mable Nite Ch at 15 months old had 6500 won
Smokin Joe Grand Night and a Silver Ch litter Mate to Shack.
Those are just the ones that I can think of that have came through Dads yard that he has started and owned himself in the last ten years. That’s not close to all of them and not counting the ones that he started for the public There is around 80K in dog earnings in that list. You need to do your research on who your Running that mouth to.

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wjoey
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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

Stylish tack and Stylish tuff both dual grand at 1 yr old
Bam BAM he is just a dog that's won a lot and my buddy all got to play when little at my farm

__________________
JOE WILBANKS
423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

UKC PREFORMANCE SIRE Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse

HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks

Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old
Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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edwardfasteddy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

That's right, I live about 25 miles in any direction from a Walmart Store and I'm way out in the country, I left dogs run loose 40 years ago and I personally don't like what it does to them, If a dog ever ran loose, was in a coon pen or had coons turned loose for him by a amateur trainer I not interested in the dog, Hey that's just me....

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Old Post 02-20-2018 05:21 AM
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wjoey
Banned

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

forgot 1 I was holding back stylish molly she won 4th in the pkc national championship last year she ran loose at josh's farm till she was 9 months old

__________________
JOE WILBANKS
423-802-4115
The home where the big time winners come from

UKC PREFORMANCE SIRE Nt ch pkc ch BAM BAM The only one out of WORLD CH BIG D X GRNT SKIPPERS UMFORGIVEN SAIGE she has 21 pups 4nt ch 5 grnt ch thats 42.85%
He is a coon dog!
Nt ch ch Insane Minnie MouseInsane cain x Malden Branch Mouse

HOME OF 2 TIME AQHA HORSE OF THE YEAR
World champion working cow horse snaffle bit
SMART LITTLE LEGEND
ETCHA CHAMPION
HCHA CHAMPION
Top 16 NCHA WORLD Champion
Home of GHSRA All Around Cowboy Champion Chris wilbanks

Jerico Rebel our Movie star horse hes been in three films now 35 years old
Just passed away February 4th 2016

MY OLD DOGS GONE BUT NEVER FORGOTTEN
The one I will allways miss now deceased 01/09/2013
GR CH GRAND NT CH Handosme Trudy
SIRE PKC WLD CH GR NT WHATS UP DOC
DAM GR NT HUTCHINS SUGAR

GRCH GR NT CH COBBLER CREEK WENDY
GR NT STYLISH TUFF - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER
GR NT STYLISH TACK - WENDY X STYLISH LIPPER

NT CH SOUTHERN STYLE - JP'S HIGH STYLE X HOUSES LADY

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CONRAD FRYAR
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Mr. Edwardfasteddy, As we can see you are a very good with the keyboard, in your 40 yrs experience with the dogs, is their nothing you would want to share with the youth of today?
Or are your training methods Top secrete?

__________________
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Old Post 02-20-2018 12:11 PM
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Dan&Ann
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Jacksonville NC
Posts: 149

Running Free

Letting a pup run free for a while when he is young is the absolute quickest way to start any hunting dog. No one said the only way! What it does is allow the puppy explore and learn to use his nose, Cross a creek or tree a cat, and get used to being off of a leash and out of the pen. He will learn more chasing butter flies and lizards than other pups sitting in the pen. It also gives them lots of exercise. It brings out the chase and the hunt in the hound. Also gets the play out of them. So when you are ready to start them they already have a high school education and are ready for college...done this many times and my hounds always start quicker than litter mates down the road sitting in the pen...

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Old Post 02-20-2018 01:13 PM
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edwardfasteddy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
Location:
Posts: 805

Re: Running Free

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Dan&Ann
[B]Letting a pup run free
]
I know what your saying, sounds good, almost like its a great idea and it almost makes sense. I just wanted to know if anyone on here ever seen what problems letting a pup run loose causes. If that is what ya'll think is the big thing in getting a pup a head start and putting them in a coon pen is the way to go That's Great! Its just not for me, Been There, Done That.

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Old Post 02-20-2018 05:02 PM
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Rebeldog4
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2018
Location:
Posts: 17

Of all the hounders I know on the average the ones that can let their pups run loose have a better success with making dogs.i can't think of one reason not to let pup loose if you can other than pup getting hit on road or caught in trap.i can't let my pups run loose so I work my but off and get them in the woods as much as possible.i have seen the difference in many litters.theres is way more to it than luck.keep em in the woods!

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Old Post 02-20-2018 06:02 PM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5823

quote:
Originally posted by CONRAD FRYAR
Mr. Edwardfasteddy, As we can see you are a very good with the keyboard, in your 40 yrs experience with the dogs, is their nothing you would want to share with the youth of today?
Or are your training methods Top secrete?


Still no reply on recommended methods of his 40yrs of experience.

Cons of letting them run loose... the danger aspect over the years a few have got hit by cars or flat out dissappeared but the benefits out weigh the risk. Everytime a dog is hunted it is put at risk with no guarantee of getting it back so if you worry to much about the risk raise a house dog or keep them in the pen to look at lol. If not done right what can happen... when they start treeing consistently it's time to pen them up so you don't have them getting treed then leaving trees.
The social aspect... you can't just turn them out and forget them pups need social human interaction on the daily. You don't want a pup that is hard to catch and doesn't know that the human is in charge.
Coon pens... if you go this route it should be limited, to many hot tracks with no need to learn to run a track, most need no help with the tree part already. To much of a coon pen = lazy dog that likes to tree but expects all tracks to come easy with no need to go find one or work out a difficult track. Coon pens work best for getting a dog to tree and easy exposure to coons, they have their purpose but as stated limited or controlled. Pups need to learn how to run a track, pick up a lose and go find a track, running loose does this.
Running trash... most of us who mentioned this have already stated most break themselves with age and coon and is very seldom a long term problem. A trashy 7-8 mo old pup with plenty of fire is most coonhunters dream to start, you can take what you need out but can't put it in.

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Old Post 02-20-2018 06:38 PM
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