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Mike Knuckols
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Harleton Texas
Posts: 452

End of an Era

With the prevalence of deep and lonely and the way most hunters are embarrassed or disgusted if their hound works with another dog in our area we don't have the acreage to hold a 2 hour hunt . Mine included is a big hunting dog . I haven't man made him like most of the guys training their dog to get away from others but half the time he checks out and does his thing . I have 1 lease that is around 750 acres and when I take a cast it works out to be 1 drop due to the dogs scattering . If I try for a second drop and we are trespassing . My question is why are so many whipping and shocking their hound to be solo unless they are just ill tempered and they cant stand to put them down . From what Ive witnessed if another dog covers one they get ate up or the solo dog leaves . I don't like a big eared dog either that quits and runs to another to back them it just takes around 2000 acres to hold a cast where you can recut . Recutting to me is what separates the elite hounds .unless we go the way of the deer hunter and lease up large tracks of land the competition part of hunting is going to disappear around here . what are others doing to find spots or tracts of land large enough for cast . Texas is not a right to retrieve state and they right some hefty tickets around here especially in deer season .

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Old Post 11-19-2019 07:54 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

Mike they won big $$$ with them. Then everybody copied how they created them faster than a Chinese light builder. The $$$ kc refuses to address the rules they play by that makes their creation hold value. Ukc changed the rules that will real them back in fortunately not all of us were influenced by $$$ to create a pain in the eeee awww dog just to fit in. It wonít take long the rules determine how people play the game they always have what donít have value will be thrown in the trash.


And Bruce will be bragging on his close hunting tight mouthed wipeout dogs you will see.


Tar

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Old Post 11-19-2019 08:50 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 855

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Mike they won big $$$ with them. Then everybody copied how they created them faster than a Chinese light builder. The $$$ kc refuses to address the rules they play by that makes their creation hold value. Ukc changed the rules that will real them back in fortunately not all of us were influenced by $$$ to create a pain in the eeee awww dog just to fit in. It wonít take long the rules determine how people play the game they always have what donít have value will be thrown in the trash.


And Bruce will be bragging on his close hunting tight mouthed wipeout dogs you will see.


Tar



The rules should be made for the all around coon dog that is a pleasure to hunt...if the rules are written for that type of dog then in ten years there will be many good pups to be had...who wants a dog that kicks up rocks in your face as he rolls out and runs a straight line and trees a coon at 1200 yards while he passed some decent tracks on his way that another dog takes a coon at 200 yards...

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Old Post 11-20-2019 12:00 AM
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N Williams
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Registered: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 1126

I got one that I never had to beat and shock on. Some are naturally that way but she wasnít a social retard. She didnít leave if they came to her. She would let other dogs tree with her.

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Old Post 11-20-2019 01:21 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

I must say mike came up here to one of our $$$ hunts with his deep hunting dog and I guided them in a place I call the honey hole his dog treed 5 singles in 90 minutes and he won the cast. His dog only goes deep if need be.


We only got 900 yards from the pickup at the most.


Tar

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Old Post 11-20-2019 03:08 AM
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MARSHALL AYERS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2011
Location: candler nc
Posts: 1378

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Mike they won big $$$ with them. Then everybody copied how they created them faster than a Chinese light builder. The $$$ kc refuses to address the rules they play by that makes their creation hold value. Ukc changed the rules that will real them back in fortunately not all of us were influenced by $$$ to create a pain in the eeee awww dog just to fit in. It wonít take long the rules determine how people play the game they always have what donít have value will be thrown in the trash.


And Bruce will be bragging on his close hunting tight mouthed wipeout dogs you will see.


Tar



With that being said wouldnít the older style dogs now prevail? If you have 2 deep and lonely style dogs in a cast and 2 dogs that work together and tree Coons as they come you would think the dogs that work together and tree more Coons on the way to the deep and lonely dogs would fair better in a cast. With that being said as I see around the hunts today the deep and lonely style dogs seem to be more accurate. And they are winning by having Coons.

In the end you canít blame a specific kcís rules for changing the way dog operate. That deep and lonely dog that had Coons to win is all around a better dog when the name of the game is have a Coon.

I donít care how many trees dog make together pack hunting or spread out. Itís about meat at the end of a track.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

quote:
Originally posted by MARSHALL AYERS
With that being said wouldnít the older style dogs now prevail? If you have 2 deep and lonely style dogs in a cast and 2 dogs that work together and tree Coons as they come you would think the dogs that work together and tree more Coons on the way to the deep and lonely dogs would fair better in a cast. With that being said as I see around the hunts today the deep and lonely style dogs seem to be more accurate. And they are winning by having Coons.

In the end you canít blame a specific kcís rules for changing the way dog operate. That deep and lonely dog that had Coons to win is all around a better dog when the name of the game is have a Coon.

I donít care how many trees dog make together pack hunting or spread out. Itís about meat at the end of a track.




That deep and lonely dog in the other kc is usually got first strike off the snap.



Their play by plays I almost know what they are going to say before I read it :



All dogs struck under the minute ........ track is cooling off ..... dogs are splitting up ..........ole wind splitter treed deep cast is walking........ cast is still walking........ cast is still walking and walking and walking and walking lol. Plus him up. Ole rewind is treed back twords the truck hunt will be over by time we score ole rewinds tree cast is walking and walking and walking and walking plus him up ole wind splitter winds with more strike points.


Tar

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Old Post 11-20-2019 12:00 PM
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G.W. Harring
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2016
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 52

Tar

Now Tar, you know good and well that those dogs are just "cooooold nosed." To hear some tell it, some of those dogs can even wind yesterday's coon fart 3 miles away with the wind at their back. It's not their fault you're hunting a HOT NOSED dog!! LOL

Think about it a little bit.....who's to blame or credit for that style of dog? Those are the rules right?

UKC rules even state:

2. POINT SYSTEM
(a) 100 points for dog that "opens" first;

Can't blame a guy or a handler for wanting to win by the rules, and "opening" right off the lead is how you can get that first and 75pts more than the last dog "called" in the calling contest. In a 1 hour hunt it can be a real advantage.

In "theory", it's supposed to credit the dog that hunts out and finds an actual coon track and opens first. BUUUUT the TRUTH and REALITY is...it's NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to PROVE what (if anything) that any dog is "actually" opening on in a hunt. Especially on the first dump with strange dogs......yet advantage points are given for it, hunts are won by it and some will even go so far as to measure a dog by it?? LOL

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

Re: Tar

quote:
Originally posted by G.W. Harring
Now Tar, you know good and well that those dogs are just "cooooold nosed." To hear some tell it, some of those dogs can even wind yesterday's coon fart 3 miles away with the wind at their back. It's not their fault you're hunting a HOT NOSED dog!! LOL

Think about it a little bit.....who's to blame or credit for that style of dog? Those are the rules right?

UKC rules even state:

2. POINT SYSTEM
(a) 100 points for dog that "opens" first;

Can't blame a guy or a handler for wanting to win by the rules, and "opening" right off the lead is how you can get that first and 75pts more than the last dog "called" in the calling contest. In a 1 hour hunt it can be a real advantage.

In "theory", it's supposed to credit the dog that hunts out and finds an actual coon track and opens first. BUUUUT the TRUTH and REALITY is...it's NEXT TO IMPOSSIBLE to PROVE what (if anything) that any dog is "actually" opening on in a hunt. Especially on the first dump with strange dogs......yet advantage points are given for it, hunts are won by it and some will even go so far as to measure a dog by it?? LOL







Took a guy hunting he was trying my dog out to buy. He brought a measuring stick with him my dog treed 4 singles on the measuring stick he said like your dog but I canít use him he donít get his mouth open quick enough.


Go figure !!

Tar

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Old Post 11-20-2019 02:07 PM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 249

All you have to do is ď PROVEĒ it. I know it , the man that handles the dog knows it. The rule supports it , so prove that itís wrong. Few years back a kid could tell that a dog was running its mouth for no reason. Now the dogs make it look so real that proving it is hard or next to impossible. As far as the coon goes strick points absolutely means squat. All they are this day in time is an advantage for the handler. But it be 300 yards or 2 miles them dogs will have a coon 9 out of 10 times when they park it. Even here in the south with all the public land we are blessed with. It takes a deep hunting dog most of the time. But again strick points mean nothing.I will never be convinced that a dog or any dog for that matter can get a 100 strick on every cut loose an end up as deep as some of these dogs. Hunting land is disappearing at a fast rate. Itís sad that the game we play has to be done with the style dog that is part of the problem.

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Sfox91
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Registered: Aug 2019
Location: East central indiana
Posts: 24

I canít imagine how bad this Yadkin tar guy had to have been beat by pkc dogs for him to dislike the registry and itís membership so much. If they are such poor quality dogs and yours is superior, why donít you go win some of that easy money? Only takes 3 to score a tree, Iíve seen you complain about walking, so walk to the close ones, let the 3 able bodied handlers to score the deep ones.

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Old Post 11-20-2019 03:28 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

quote:
Originally posted by Sfox91
I canít imagine how bad this Yadkin tar guy had to have been beat by pkc dogs for him to dislike the registry and itís membership so much. If they are such poor quality dogs and yours is superior, why donít you go win some of that easy money? Only takes 3 to score a tree, Iíve seen you complain about walking, so walk to the close ones, let the 3 able bodied handlers to score the deep ones.



Sam I donít dislike the kc and itís been a long time ago but an owner whom I trusted showed favoritism I am over it and I let it go. Jerry moll is a stand up guy that I would trust with my wallet without hesitation.


Now then everybody has their thing they donít like and I have hated a babbling dog since 1979. Itís undeserved points and they have used as such that long. My dogs will walk your butt off on a night the coons are not moving but bring that blow deep dog down here and in 7 nights fighting this jungle a mile in and out and you wonít love ole ball a fire either lol.

Tar

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Old Post 11-20-2019 04:35 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

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Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

Getting beat never bothered me much I just would get a pup out of the dog that beat me.


Tar

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Old Post 11-21-2019 01:44 PM
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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2100

quote:
Originally posted by Sfox91
I canít imagine how bad this Yadkin tar guy had to have been beat by pkc dogs for him to dislike the registry and itís membership so much. If they are such poor quality dogs and yours is superior, why donít you go win some of that easy money? Only takes 3 to score a tree, Iíve seen you complain about walking, so walk to the close ones, let the 3 able bodied handlers to score the deep ones.


I don't go to a lot of hunts, but I have gone to a big one or two every year for the last 5 or 6 years. Never seen Tar at one. Yet he knows what all the dogs are like, how they win, how they are bred, where they strike, how far they go, and what the handlers are getting paid.

All from his couch......

We should have sicked him on Bin Laden, maybe got him caught faster and never had to leave his livingroom.

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Bruce m. Conkey
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.

Josh, some days I like like your style. Today is starting off as a banner day.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
I don't go to a lot of hunts, but I have gone to a big one or two every year for the last 5 or 6 years. Never seen Tar at one. Yet he knows what all the dogs are like, how they win, how they are bred, where they strike, how far they go, and what the handlers are getting paid.

All from his couch......

We should have sicked him on Bin Laden, maybe got him caught faster and never had to leave his livingroom.




Josh did competition hunting start with you ? Was you in a little clubhouse in cleburne tx with Jarvis umphers when pkc first started discussing rules and and programs most you hunt by today. Letís take a trip down memory lane a hunt in Colgate ok a female that was born in my back yard with me handling treed 4 singles on dempsey while he was treeing armadillo after armadillo. I have offered you invitations for you to come down here i will show you I am what I say I am.


The higher you build yourself the further the fall. Seem like not to long ago on face book I remember you saying multiple times (F ) ukc I will never hunt in their hunts.


Tar

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2100

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Josh, some days I like like your style. Today is starting off as a banner day.


We are rained out at work today Bruce, so I got to browse the old interwebs as I drank my morning coffe, and much to my surprise I notice this elderly gentlemen in Oklahoma who appears to have an actual superpower and thought.......what a waste of valuable resources.

This man knows literally everything.....without going literally, anywhere.......

Surely someone like that can be used for more than just telling us what everyone's coon dogs that he has never actually hunted with are like.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
We are rained out at work today Bruce, so I got to browse the old interwebs as I drank my morning coffe, and much to my surprise I notice this elderly gentlemen in Oklahoma who appears to have an actual superpower and thought.......what a waste of valuable resources.

This man knows literally everything.....without going literally, anywhere.......

Surely someone like that can be used for more than just telling us what everyone's coon dogs that he has never actually hunted with are like.




Josh I do it for the love of the sport take the $$$ out of it you and Bruce would quit.

Tar

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17701

Oh my goodness, what a way to start the day.

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2100

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Josh did competition hunting start with you ? Was you in a little clubhouse in cleburne tx with Jarvis umphers when pkc first started discussing rules and and programs most you hunt by today. Letís take a trip down memory lane a hunt in Colgate ok a female that was born in my back yard with me handling treed 4 singles on dempsey while he was treeing armadillo after armadillo. I have offered you invitations for you to come down here i will show you I am what I say I am.


The higher you build yourself the further the fall. Seem like not to long ago on face book I remember you saying multiple times (F ) ukc I will never hunt in their hunts.


Tar



First of all, I have said that I do not hunt UKC, because I do not like the packing dogs, and I dont like the rules. They have changed all that, so Ill start after the first of the year. I never said (f) UKC, because I simply do not talk like that.

I am not sure what Dempsey has to do with me. I am guessing the same as a dog that you do not own, or handle, and didn't train, has to do with you.

So before you get so mad you blubber around some more, remember. Your dog may be better than mine. I don't know, I have never hunted with it, and I have a policy of not talking about dogs I have never hunted with.

And I think you are probably a little weird, so I am not going to drive to Oklahoma just to see your dog go hunting.

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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17701

Re: Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Josh I do it for the love of the sport take the $$$ out of it you and Bruce would quit.

Tar



Tarbaby, I thought that you quit until they came up with the $200,000 hunt and the only reason that you are going to hunt is to win your 5 casts?

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
First of all, I have said that I do not hunt UKC, because I do not like the packing dogs, and I dont like the rules. They have changed all that, so Ill start after the first of the year. I never said (f) UKC, because I simply do not talk like that.

I am not sure what Dempsey has to do with me. I am guessing the same as a dog that you do not own, or handle, and didn't train, has to do with you.

So before you get so mad you blubber around some more, remember. Your dog may be better than mine. I don't know, I have never hunted with it, and I have a policy of not talking about dogs I have never hunted with.

And I think you are probably a little weird, so I am not going to drive to Oklahoma just to see your dog go hunting.




I have drawn Jed and respect him and know Jed donít back down from a challenge that was all before I ever heard your name.


Now you discount a persons credablity you say their opinion is false. But you ride on the coatales of anotherís achievements. Your brouther was a top hunter I knew him. You just donít want to come down because I donít have clean woods and a buggy to ride I think your soft not me.



Tar

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9604

Re: Re: Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Tarbaby, I thought that you quit until they came up with the $200,000 hunt and the only reason that you are going to hunt is to win your 5 casts?




If you want me to drive to autum oaks to eat with you next year I am going not a bologna sandwich either lol.


Tar

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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2100

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
I have drawn Jed and respect him and know Jed donít back down from a challenge that was all before I ever heard your name.


Now you discount a persons credablity you say their opinion is false. But you ride on the coatales of anotherís achievements. Your brouther was a top hunter I knew him. You just donít want to come down because I donít have clean woods and a buggy to ride I think your soft not me.



Tar



HA, If I had feelings you may have hurt them.

And yes, I am soft, and I discount your credibility.

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4240

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Tar lets set the record straight. As far as your opinions on hunts, dogs, future and past success. That is your opinions and you have every right to them without me saying they are wrong. I do also have my opinions form past experience and they may align or not align with yours. Doesn't make them anything more than my opinions. I will say one thing. I understand the importance of living in TODAYS world and I understand over time. Things have changed. From the Genetics in our hounds to the equipment we used to handle and train them with. I have memories but don't live in the past and discredit today and the future. To do that completely discredits every young hunter out there. Because they only know today and how it is done today.

Now lets please separate opinions from facts. In the past couple days you have now stated two facts about me that are far from the truth. Couple days ago you wanted to throw off on the wipeout dogs and attach my name to it. I have five dogs here and not one of them have any dog in their pedigree that has the name Wipeout attached. So you want to down Wipeout dogs. Do it without making WRONG statements and associations of that line and dogs I own. Second one was associating money to my love for coon hunting. That is another one of your false facts. What makes me loose faith in you is you can't even get the facts right. So how can anyone respect your opinions when they are based upon living in the past and not accepting the future.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 11-21-2019 at 02:40 PM

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