Registered: Apr 2006
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has anybody done this did pups turn out will ukc paper them or is this to close input please

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quote:

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Originally posted by MJRKENNELS
has anybody done this did pups turn out will ukc paper them or is this to close input please

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Registered: Dec 2008
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would say they will be crazey i would not breed that way but it is up to you.we need to beter the bread

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roll em out boys

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Registered: Nov 2008
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UKC will register them, but it will say inbred on the papers.
Had one someone else bred, didn't turn out.
If they are exactly what you want in a hound it might work out in your favor. Might not.

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Registered: Jun 2006
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i crossed DanIII to his daughter, so far it is a nice litter..all the pups started going to the woods at 4mo. old and catching coon and at 5mo were making good tree dogs..but i have had this line since the early 80's and know and owned most dogs in there pedigree...if your not real sure of there ancesters you could have problems surface..

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problems will surface 4 sure and the next cross will be worse

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roll em out boys

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Registered: Jul 2003
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Traits are super intensified, good and bad.
If both dogs and ancesters are near perfect you might be ok. The traits can do funny things though in some cases. A balanced female may throw tight mouth pups or dogs with too much track and not enough tree, or vis versa. Also it seems flaws like cherry eye, hip displasia, hurnias, shyness and things like that can show up. Of course these things can show up anyway even when you make an outcross, but it seems breeding this close increases odds of trouble though.
You can get real nice dogs though too, better cooners than the Sire and Dam in some cases.
Some say its a good test of a line.
If you don't mind culling the bad ones, I guess it doesn't hurt to test the line.
Thats my thoughts from what i've heard and seen. I bred father daughter with hogs ( had a real nice Boar hog ) and it worked great, of course they don't have to be able to do too much, but they gained good and went to market quick.
Darrin

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
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I owned ( I did not do the breeding) two litter mate sisters off a father X daughter cross.

Both were coon treeing dogs.

Both of them are dead now, and I still have the papers. Funny thing is that UKC stamped one of them "inbred", but the other was not stamped.

Last I knew, one of the other littermate females was still alive and kicking in Illinois...she is a coon treeing fool, and is a reproducer of honest to goodness coon dogs....

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Registered: Nov 2008
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never had any experience myself, but talked to plenty of guys that claimed they saw some great dogs fro father/daughter crosses. problem is there are plenty of guys that won't have nothing to do with them and won't buy the pups or take you very seriously.

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Registered: Jun 2008
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quote:

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Originally posted by CaneToad
UKC will register them, but it will say inbred on the papers.
Had one someone else bred, didn't turn out.
If they are exactly what you want in a hound it might work out in your favor. Might not.

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THEY DON'T STAMP THEM ANYMORE. WE HAVE A NTCH. MALE FROM A FATHER DAUGHTER CROSS. <v>

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There is nothing wrong with breeding dogs like this, especially performance dogs. Breeding in this manner won't create behavior/performance traits nor make your dogs 'crazy" as one expert put it. This style of breeding will make you, the breeder, aware of the flaws in your chosen dogs. Without knowing the flaws of your breeding stock how can you improve the breed. This is genetics 101 at its simplest.

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I don't think anyone realy knows about genetics. I do know that some crosses are better than others but you don't know that for sure untill the cross is made. If alot of people knew about genetics than their stud dog should never have a bad pup. Just my oppinion. I have hunted with a dog out of a brother & sister cross and she was a mental case idiot that needed to be shot.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Butterbean26
I don't think anyone realy knows about genetics. I do know that some crosses are better than others but you don't know that for sure untill the cross is made. If alot of people knew about genetics than their stud dog should never have a bad pup. Just my oppinion. I have hunted with a dog out of a brother & sister cross and she was a mental case idiot that needed to be shot.

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Actually the head of small animal reproduction at Iowa State at Ames told me one of the best crosses I could do was to breed Cornell to his mother.He told me to keep the whole litter and realize that culling would have to be apart of the breeding program.And as you double up the good genes some will double up on the bad cull the bad keep the good you actually can breed the bad out.And you can end up with a line of dogs that you can predict to alot of ceartanity how their going to trail and tree,how there going to act in the pen,how their going to sound.He said in Europe in their hunting dogs they have always bred this way and only go for an outcross every so many generations and do alot of studying on the outcross.But it has always been kind of taboo in U.S.

Last edited by John M. Horner on 12-24-2008 at 05:52 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by John M. Horner
Actually the head of small animal reproduction at Iowa State at Ames told me one of the best crosses I could do was to breed Cornell to his mother.He told me to keep the whole litter and realize that culling would have to be apart of the breeding program.And as you double up the good genes some will double up on the bad cull the bad keep the good you actually can breed the bad out.And you can end up with a line of dogs that you can predict to alot of ceartanity how their going to trail and tree,how there going to act in the pen,how their going to sound.He said in Europe in their hunting dogs they have always bred this way and only go for an outcross every so many generations and do alot of studying on the outcross.But it has always been kind of taboo in U.S.

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Registered: Dec 2007
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I saw a young dog a buddy of mine had out of a father daughter cross i would of loved to had, he was a track driving fool & was a tree dog second to none with the meat. i also saw one out of a littermate to littermate cross that was just as good & really liked it also , hard going track driving fool also tree dog with the meat. if both are layed back calm natured dogs that you think their strengths would compliment each other i wouldn't be afraid to give it a try,but if doesn't work i wouldn't be afraid to cull them either.but if it does work i would make an extreme outcross the next time with something that still has the strenghts you think you need bred in but totally unrelated as much as possible. we all know they go back to a very few bloodlines any.

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Registered: Jun 2003
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has done this type of crossing back n forth for years. some like it and some don't. example....gr nite ch warson's northern blue trapper. brother x sister. i did the 1981 bbcha article on trapper 10 years after his death. be amazed what he reproduced. far enough back in some pedigrees even today. another littermate to trapper....ch, nite biscamp's blue lisa. she laid the foundation for some of the late hoy's blues. i'm sure there are more. also...hammer VI's dam was by trapper. i believe jim rosenwald may of had some inbreeding?! not sure. it's probably been done and no one "admits" to it....LOL!!!!

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Last edited by lauraroeder on 12-24-2008 at 07:16 PM

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One of the things Dr. Larry Evans explained to me the proper cross to achieve your goal is a father to daughter,mother to son because your doubling up with less variables compared to a brother and sister cross,because you don't know what genetics the son took from the mother or father and the same on the sister.I'm going to breed Cornell back to his Mother on the next heat cycle.Then keep the whole litter and breed Cornell back to which ever daughter out of that cross acts and hunts the most like him.Obviously I'm not doing this for monetary but to see if I can achieve a strain that looks and acts like Cornell.I enjoy hunting him and thats why I ask Dr. Larry Evans how to acheive it I myself was a little surprised when he laid it out.But I pondered on it and I'm going to try it.I had another person with breeding expierence tell me that this was the right way to do it!!!!

Last edited by John M. Horner on 12-24-2008 at 10:37 PM

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Registered: Sep 2003
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I MADE A SON TO MOTHER CROSS AND IT HAS WORKED REAL WELL 3 OUT OF 4 ARE TREEING THIER OWN COONS THE RIGHT WAY THEY ARE NOW 18 months old AND WOULD DO IT AGAIN IN A HEART BEAT IF BOTH PARENTS WERE WHAT I WAS LOOKING FOR IN A HOUND

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btt

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.i know manney manney breeders in europ you know why.becals breeders in the us have destroyed some lines of dogs here so now we half to buy good stock from europ and fly the dogs here.I WISH IT WAS A LAW in the us to stop stupid breeding like that befor the walker breed is destroyed.europen people take pride in there breeding if that dr did not lye to you john i beat the public did not know about it.if i am not wrong it is aginst the law there still to register a dog if not at least 1 parent to be a champion befor the pups can be registered fci..i gave 12,000,00 just to buy 1 bitch 9 months old in europ and 1,600.00 to fly her here.the dogs here in the us are destroyed by inbreeding so much and it is starting to take a bad toll every where and the breeders here know it but wount admit it. hd and chreey eyes and maney other things is starting to show worse every singel year in the walker breed.get on line and talk to some breeders in europ you will see wat i mean.the us is starting to beed dogs now like china but why china dos bad breeding is becals dogs is one of there mane food sorce there.you can also have blood work dun on a dog to tell you how much inbreeding the dog has now in it bood.they do that every day in europ they line breed not inbreed and they still keep up with the blood worke so they can tell when to make a out cross.50 years from now not maney lines of dogs here in the stats will half enuff cence to walk across the road let along be good to train for wat ever there bread for. one more big defernce is i get 3,500,00 just for a six week old pup.american breed stock i would be lucky to get 500.00 for a pup that is one big difernce and the dogs i breed to train for protiction must be 100 percent from europen lines and europ cant save the walker breed as they have some they are no walkers there being breed to save our walker ling of hounds.WAKE UP AMERICE BEFOR IT IS TO LATE EARL PITS....ps to most on here this is a waste of time preaching and also health test befor breeding and we all will have better line of dog.i just hope some kids reads this if it happens the kid will rember this and say that crazey man was rite 50 years ago

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roll em out boys

Last edited by dogboy on 12-25-2008 at 07:33 AM

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wat line of dogs you been breading for 20 years that speak for there sealf.do you have a web sit.

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roll em out boys

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Registered: Nov 2005
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quote:

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Originally posted by dogboy
.i just hope some kids reads this if it happens the kid will rember this and say that crazey man was rite 50 years ago

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