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Tom, we also, had to import coons in my area and thanks to that we now have a decent population. Our local coon clubs spent a lot of money to achieve this result. Knowing how hard this effort was, I hate to shoot coons I much rather enjoy running and treeing them. Dan, you are correct in that a dog does not need the game killed to do what is bred in them. I have hunted many years and hunted year around a lot of those years and it never made a difference by not shooting the game out. Fox hunters never kill the fix, but their dogs always want to run the fox, same with coon dogs. Killing game is more for the hunter than for the dogs. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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I think the River Bend Flag bred dogs, have the best cold nose in the walker breed, i had one out of Yadkin River Champ, and his mother was out of Flag. But i had an old black&tan dog that ran a cold track as fast as he ran a hot track, and he would tree coons that other dogs did not know were there, it did my heart good in a night hunt, i never seen it so quiet, under a big oak with a big coon sitting up over his head about 20 feet in plain sight, and nothing else was there, one grand night and two nite champions, on the cast. Most people don't know what a cold nose dog is, until you hunt with one, and trying to reproduce another one like him, don't happen very often. As i am still trying.

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J.B.

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Here’s some observations I made in the few years that I had an above average cold nosed dog:

1.) She was occasionally accused of running trash by guys that had never owned or hunted with a truly cold nosed coon dog……….until the track got warmed up enough that their dogs started opening on it too!

2.) Some pleasure hunters value the number of coon run and treed on a pleasure hunt more than listening to a hound grub out a feeder track into hot race before the coon climbs. I live in the Connecticut River valley area of NH. Listening to the echos of a hound with a good voice echoing along the river valley (and surrounding mountain valleys) work up a cold track to its completion with game in the tree, is some of the sweetest music known to man!

3.) Some people just don’t appreciate listening to a good run. Many of my most treasured memories are of late October nights when the mast crop (acorns and beechnuts) were scarce and coon we’re stretching out their search for feed. My preference has always been to listen to a hound work up a cold track into a hot race over a few barks and treed. I get it, my type of dog won’t win many competition hunts these days. Money has changed coon hunting in many ways………….a few of them have turned out good!

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Dan

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2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.

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Tom Wood

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I know exactly what you’re referring to here Tom and I agree 100%. Many folks think a cold nose automatically means a track straddler that won’t or can’t drift ahead.
Not my type of dog.

I will say that I’ve seen a number of dogs that had really good noses begin to have trouble sorting out the older tracks when they got on in years. I’m talking around the 8 yr. mark and up.

Conversely, the dogs that I would call hot or medium nosed dogs were not so apt to evidence this problem.

Am I alone in this observation?

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Dan

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quote:

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.

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Ken, due to work etc. I was never a breeder, but I have deep respect for folks like you who always tried to breed better hounds. You have always had my respect for what you breed and hunt, as you have always had a coon dog not just a average hound. I think you definitely know a coon dog and I would take your word on a dog without hesitation anytime and you are one of a very few that I would listen to. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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You have hit the nail squarely on the head. I remembers years ago that the rabbit beagles were being bred to a field trial standard and was judged on track straddling more than the hunting ability of pushing a rabbit back to the hunters gun. The field trial beagles became useless as hunting dogs with their slow track stradding method of running a rabbit track. Some of my hunting buddies beaglers were fed up with that kind of beagle and started a gun dog beagles competition. A competition where the beagles were judged on hunting rather than field trailing, judging a dog on the merits of putting game in the bag. The competition coon hunts have started breeders more interested on scoring points than developing a true coon dog that can handle all tracks instead of the hot nosed dogs we are seeing today. I do not have the answer to this problem as the majority of competition coon hunters favor winning over all other traits. Maybe a dedicated group of true coon hunters could start a gun dog organization where dogs are scored on nose and other aspects of a true coon dog. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!

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I was never a breeder of hounds. Have only raised (2) litters of coon hounds in my life. I got lucky both times and had a couple decent dogs in each litter. Never anything I considered a top dog. Just solid coon dogs night after night.

You folks who have raised an hunted your own dogs for years are to be respected for sure.

So here’s a question for you guys that likely have owned some good cold nosed coon dogs. Have you found that many of them at around the 8 year mark start having trouble on some tracks discerning which way the track was going?

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Dan

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkinriver
BINGO! Someone that understands breeding. I tried over 30 years to consistantly breed for the outstanding track dog. Started with an outstanding female and got one out of several litters. Got two grandpups outstanding out of several litters. Got a lot of above average dogs but the truly outstanding dogs were rare.

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by DL NH
I was never a breeder of hounds. Have only raised (2) litters of coon hounds in my life. I got lucky both times and had a couple decent dogs in each litter. Never anything I considered a top dog. Just solid coon dogs night after night.

You folks who have raised an hunted your own dogs for years are to be respected for sure.

So here’s a question for you guys that likely have owned some good cold nosed coon dogs. Have you found that many of them at around the 8 year mark start having trouble on some tracks discerning which way the track was going?

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As I have stated before, I was never a breeder or a dog trainer. I did not have the time or desire to do either. I respect you and the others that did breed trying to get better dogs. I think anyone that breeds animals should check out Gregor Mendels format that explains recessive and dominant traits, he was the first to prove that these traits exist. He talks and proves his info on this subject. Explains why some traits skip a generation and the facts that some traits are recessive and some are dominant. A breeder has to know what traits he wants are dominant and what traits are recessive and breed with knowledge. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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I have enjoyed this thread.i believe that competition hunts held when there is no leaf's on tree's separate coon dogs from dogs that can tree a coon!Like most things the mighty dollar has made competition hunts less enjoyable.Most hunters don't really listen to their dog because they are to busy watching their tracking device!

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