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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5671

Preacher Tom / Dan

Tom, we also, had to import coons in my area and thanks to that we now have a decent population. Our local coon clubs spent a lot of money to achieve this result. Knowing how hard this effort was, I hate to shoot coons I much rather enjoy running and treeing them. Dan, you are correct in that a dog does not need the game killed to do what is bred in them. I have hunted many years and hunted year around a lot of those years and it never made a difference by not shooting the game out. Fox hunters never kill the fix, but their dogs always want to run the fox, same with coon dogs. Killing game is more for the hunter than for the dogs. Dave

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Old Post 03-23-2024 01:05 AM
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JOE H BROOKS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Hillsboro,ohio
Posts: 927

Cold Nose

I think the River Bend Flag bred dogs, have the best cold nose in the walker breed, i had one out of Yadkin River Champ, and his mother was out of Flag. But i had an old black&tan dog that ran a cold track as fast as he ran a hot track, and he would tree coons that other dogs did not know were there, it did my heart good in a night hunt, i never seen it so quiet, under a big oak with a big coon sitting up over his head about 20 feet in plain sight, and nothing else was there, one grand night and two nite champions, on the cast. Most people don't know what a cold nose dog is, until you hunt with one, and trying to reproduce another one like him, don't happen very often. As i am still trying.

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Old Post 03-23-2024 09:32 AM
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DL NH
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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 590

Here’s some observations I made in the few years that I had an above average cold nosed dog:

1.) She was occasionally accused of running trash by guys that had never owned or hunted with a truly cold nosed coon dog……….until the track got warmed up enough that their dogs started opening on it too!

2.) Some pleasure hunters value the number of coon run and treed on a pleasure hunt more than listening to a hound grub out a feeder track into hot race before the coon climbs. I live in the Connecticut River valley area of NH. Listening to the echos of a hound with a good voice echoing along the river valley (and surrounding mountain valleys) work up a cold track to its completion with game in the tree, is some of the sweetest music known to man!

3.) Some people just don’t appreciate listening to a good run. Many of my most treasured memories are of late October nights when the mast crop (acorns and beechnuts) were scarce and coon we’re stretching out their search for feed. My preference has always been to listen to a hound work up a cold track into a hot race over a few barks and treed. I get it, my type of dog won’t win many competition hunts these days. Money has changed coon hunting in many ways………….a few of them have turned out good!

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Old Post 03-23-2024 03:37 PM
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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1124

2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.

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Old Post 03-23-2024 04:26 PM
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DL NH
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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 590

I know exactly what you’re referring to here Tom and I agree 100%. Many folks think a cold nose automatically means a track straddler that won’t or can’t drift ahead.
Not my type of dog.

I will say that I’ve seen a number of dogs that had really good noses begin to have trouble sorting out the older tracks when they got on in years. I’m talking around the 8 yr. mark and up.

Conversely, the dogs that I would call hot or medium nosed dogs were not so apt to evidence this problem.

Am I alone in this observation?

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Old Post 03-23-2024 05:31 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5671

Preacher Tom/Dan

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.


Tom, I agree with you as I too enjoy both types of coon dogs and have owned both types. Dan, your description of listening to a coon dog on those cold October night working a cold track up and treeing the coon is music to my ears. Nights like that is why I coon hunt. Hot pop up coons do not thrill me near as much. Dave

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Old Post 03-23-2024 06:25 PM
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buff1978
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Registered: Jun 2023
Location:
Posts: 34

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.
I like both type of dogs too.but the cold nosed dog has to be able to move a track fast.i don't want a dog that straddles a track and takes half the night to tree it.a friend of mine had a black and tan male back in the 90's that would take forever to tree a cold feeder track.but if coon weren't moving and laid up he would put a hurting on you in the hunts or with the .22.

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Old Post 03-24-2024 12:47 AM
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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 749

Outstanding Coldnosed Trackdogs

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.


I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!

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Old Post 03-24-2024 05:26 PM
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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 749

Outstanding Coldnosed Trackdogs

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
2 kind of track dogs that I really like: cold nose that can work 90 % of the tracks up and tree the coon and a drifting/slashing dog that will actually loop out rather than follow a track step by step. Not sure I described the last kind right but if you've hunted with one you'll know what I'm talking about.


I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!

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Old Post 03-24-2024 05:26 PM
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Dave Richards
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Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5671

Ken Risley ( kler kry )

Ken, due to work etc. I was never a breeder, but I have deep respect for folks like you who always tried to breed better hounds. You have always had my respect for what you breed and hunt, as you have always had a coon dog not just a average hound. I think you definitely know a coon dog and I would take your word on a dog without hesitation anytime and you are one of a very few that I would listen to. Dave

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Old Post 03-24-2024 10:38 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1919

Re: Outstanding Coldnosed Trackdogs

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!



It seems you have reached a conclusion similar to what I believe in as well…it is a cluster or a combination of traits and some of those traits can vary in degree…but they act as one trait and it would have to be a recessive trait…the chance of it matching up is rather slim…we are talking about the really good dogs that we remember and talk about…and that is why we don't talk about many of the dogs in our past 30 or 40 years and maybe even longer…

If done correctly we can consistently breed a decent line of hunting dogs…some of the reasons why most of us don't is because we don't know what a top hunting dog is…another observation or opinion is breeding to win a competition at any cost…if it were up to the dog to win with minimal handling there probably would be a higher percentage of quality pups to choose from when buying a competition type pup for a potential hunting dog…

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Old Post 03-25-2024 03:31 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1919

Re: Outstanding Coldnosed Trackdogs

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!



It seems you have reached a conclusion similar to what I believe in as well…it is a cluster or a combination of traits and some of those traits can vary in degree…but they act as one trait and it would have to be a recessive trait…the chance of it matching up is rather slim…we are talking about the really good dogs that we remember and talk about…and that is why we don't talk about many of the dogs in our past 30 or 40 years and maybe even longer…

If done correctly we can consistently breed a decent line of hunting dogs…some of the reasons why most of us don't is because we don't know what a top hunting dog is…another observation or opinion is breeding to win a competition at any cost…if it were up to the dog to win with minimal handling there probably would be a higher percentage of quality pups to choose from when buying a competition type pup for a potential hunting dog…

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 03-25-2024 03:31 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5671

Rueben

You have hit the nail squarely on the head. I remembers years ago that the rabbit beagles were being bred to a field trial standard and was judged on track straddling more than the hunting ability of pushing a rabbit back to the hunters gun. The field trial beagles became useless as hunting dogs with their slow track stradding method of running a rabbit track. Some of my hunting buddies beaglers were fed up with that kind of beagle and started a gun dog beagles competition. A competition where the beagles were judged on hunting rather than field trailing, judging a dog on the merits of putting game in the bag. The competition coon hunts have started breeders more interested on scoring points than developing a true coon dog that can handle all tracks instead of the hot nosed dogs we are seeing today. I do not have the answer to this problem as the majority of competition coon hunters favor winning over all other traits. Maybe a dedicated group of true coon hunters could start a gun dog organization where dogs are scored on nose and other aspects of a true coon dog. Dave

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Old Post 03-25-2024 04:18 AM
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yadkinriver
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
Posts: 1658

Re: Outstanding Coldnosed Trackdogs

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
I Agree with Preacher Tom, Dl NH, Tom Richards.
The problem is finding the Outstanding individual dog within the bloodline. I believe that the coldnosed dog that can run a cold track with their head up is the result of recessive traits; IQ, Desire, Scenting Ability. If you breed a dog with these traits to a dog that lack one of them then you risk loosing it all!

BINGO! Someone that understands breeding. I tried over 30 years to consistantly breed for the outstanding track dog. Started with an outstanding female and got one out of several litters. Got two grandpups outstanding out of several litters. Got a lot of above average dogs but the truly outstanding dogs were rare.

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DL NH
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I was never a breeder of hounds. Have only raised (2) litters of coon hounds in my life. I got lucky both times and had a couple decent dogs in each litter. Never anything I considered a top dog. Just solid coon dogs night after night.

You folks who have raised an hunted your own dogs for years are to be respected for sure.

So here’s a question for you guys that likely have owned some good cold nosed coon dogs. Have you found that many of them at around the 8 year mark start having trouble on some tracks discerning which way the track was going?

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Old Post 03-25-2024 04:05 PM
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Dave Richards
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Re: Re: Outstanding Coldnosed Trackdogs

quote:
Originally posted by yadkinriver
BINGO! Someone that understands breeding. I tried over 30 years to consistantly breed for the outstanding track dog. Started with an outstanding female and got one out of several litters. Got two grandpups outstanding out of several litters. Got a lot of above average dogs but the truly outstanding dogs were rare.


Yadkinriver, I NEVER had the time or desire to be either a breeder or trainer, but always wanted to own and hunt outstanding coon dogs. Only owned 3 in my life of over 60 years of coon hunting. I owned those because of men like you and some others that bred for outstanding dogs not just average. I respect the men like yourself that not only knew what a outstanding coon dog was, but strived to breed such dogs. Thank you for all you done for the coon hunting community. Dave

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Old Post 03-25-2024 04:08 PM
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Kler Kry
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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 749

quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
I was never a breeder of hounds. Have only raised (2) litters of coon hounds in my life. I got lucky both times and had a couple decent dogs in each litter. Never anything I considered a top dog. Just solid coon dogs night after night.

You folks who have raised an hunted your own dogs for years are to be respected for sure.

So here’s a question for you guys that likely have owned some good cold nosed coon dogs. Have you found that many of them at around the 8 year mark start having trouble on some tracks discerning which way the track was going?



ONE SIZE DOESNT FIT ALL DOGS OR SITUATIONS
We as humans will all loose some of our mental and physical capacity with time and I see that in dogs as well.
In bear hunting they call it bearwhipped when a dog looses the desire to catch or close the distance. Some dogs that can no longer physically lead the race will refuse to participate! And some loose scenting ability from disease or illness.

I've enjoyed raising my own since 1972 when I spent extensive time and money trying to find someone breeding dogs that were better than a started dog that I bought from Bud Ralls in Chillicothe, Mo.
I'm a pedigree nut, as I believe that you can't get a dog of your dreams if none of their ancestors were.
BUT THE MOST IMPORTANT PART IS THE INDIVIDUAL THAT IS SELECTED AND BRED FROM THAT PEDIGREE.

Happy Easter to everyone and May God bless your efforts.
As ever, Ken Risley

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Old Post 03-27-2024 04:58 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5671

Ken Risley

As I have stated before, I was never a breeder or a dog trainer. I did not have the time or desire to do either. I respect you and the others that did breed trying to get better dogs. I think anyone that breeds animals should check out Gregor Mendels format that explains recessive and dominant traits, he was the first to prove that these traits exist. He talks and proves his info on this subject. Explains why some traits skip a generation and the facts that some traits are recessive and some are dominant. A breeder has to know what traits he wants are dominant and what traits are recessive and breed with knowledge. Dave

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Old Post 03-28-2024 02:39 AM
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last chance
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I have enjoyed this thread.i believe that competition hunts held when there is no leaf's on tree's separate coon dogs from dogs that can tree a coon!Like most things the mighty dollar has made competition hunts less enjoyable.Most hunters don't really listen to their dog because they are to busy watching their tracking device!

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