Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I believe you till I go to the $$$ board and start reading the scores.



Tar

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I believe you till I go to the $$$ board and start reading the scores.



Tar

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__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
pm sent Tar

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: PA
Posts: 1731

This might be an unpopular opinion, but I've always thought of "great track dogs" as having "less intelligence" than other hounds. I'll qualify that by saying that they are much better at "reacting" than thinking about what's going on at the end of their nose.

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Corey Gruver
Greenville, PA
(724) 456-6813

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

quote:

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Originally posted by Corey Gruver
This might be an unpopular opinion, but I've always thought of "great track dogs" as having "less intelligence" than other hounds. I'll qualify that by saying that they are much better at "reacting" than thinking about what's going on at the end of their nose.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Corey this might be unpopular to but we had no way to control a pain in the butt dog back in the day how would you like to to try and get a big hide check with a run all night dog that wouldn’t tree dog like they think we had? We seen coons in their trees or they went elsewhere there was no $$$ hunts so there was no use for those kind of dogs. Then when the $$$ did come along it was quite a few years before we got the wood monsters we got today.



We very seldom went to a tree that wasent a den or a coon seen anything else had no purpose.



Tar

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Registered: Oct 2018
Location:
Posts: 30

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Corey this might be unpopular to but we had no way to control a pain in the butt dog back in the day how would you like to to try and get a big hide check with a run all night dog that wouldn’t tree dog like they think we had? We seen coons in their trees or they went elsewhere there was no $$$ hunts so there was no use for those kind of dogs. Then when the $$$ did come along it was quite a few years before we got the wood monsters we got today.



We very seldom went to a tree that wasent a den or a coon seen anything else had no purpose. The big difference,a lot of new or younger hunters don't understand is that even the sorry dogs had something in the tree when they treed.When you went to a tree,you expected to see the game.I've went along on several cast in the last few years and they don't even expect to see anything ,they're looking for a hole a big fork or where he crossed out, anything but a minus.They will be looking two or three trees over.If they treed on a empty light pole, how many poles would you check before you minus them,remember light poles have lines that make them touch for miles.If the dogs tree and it touches another tree and you don't see a coon in that tree either ,it's still minus.



Tar

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Last edited by oldsouth123 on 05-05-2020 at 05:08 AM

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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5641

I hate it when folks think ACCURACY just isn't in today's dogs. I can not speak for every one, but I can not stand a slick treeing dog, that's just something that I WILL NOT put up with period. Saying that, I do not have that problem with dogs that I hunt, especially in these mountains. Some folks just accept dogs that miss regularly and actually believe that ALL dogs miss a lot, that's just not true. I realize that a lot of dogs tree slick, but definitely not ALL dogs. If you settle for a slick treeing dog, the PROBLEM is YOU. I fully expect to see a coon or legitimate den tree every time and WILL not keep a dog that can not meet those demands. I hunt in the winter months and keep score with a 22 rifle, the coon better be there. I am not a hide hunter, but hunt with a hide hunters mentality, I WANT to see the meat, I can look at empty trees without going hunting, as I have several in my yard. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 902

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
I hate it when folks think ACCURACY just isn't in today's dogs. I can not speak for every one, but I can not stand a slick treeing dog, that's just something that I WILL NOT put up with period. Saying that, I do not have that problem with dogs that I hunt, especially in these mountains. Some folks just accept dogs that miss regularly and actually believe that ALL dogs miss a lot, that's just not true. I realize that a lot of dogs tree slick, but definitely not ALL dogs. If you settle for a slick treeing dog, the PROBLEM is YOU. I fully expect to see a coon or legitimate den tree every time and WILL not keep a dog that can not meet those demands. I hunt in the winter months and keep score with a 22 rifle, the coon better be there. I am not a hide hunter, but hunt with a hide hunters mentality, I WANT to see the meat, I can look at empty trees without going hunting, as I have several in my yard. Dave

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Y’all are right each person is responsible for what is on the end of the leash. All kc’s rules have loopholes top winning handlers ( major players ) hand pick dogs to fit those loopholes plus tree coons to a tee. I told you how it was back in the day I think the new ukc rules are goof proof as you can get and I think we will see the cream rise to the top in the coon treeing contest of old.




Tar

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: central MO
Posts: 1120

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
I would rather hear a dog start a bad track and get it jumped and push it to the tree than tree three pop ups but that’s just me.



Tar

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Dennis Bockelman
California,MO

A houndsmans drive is not the thrill of the kill it's the sound of the hound !!!

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I believe that it takes a combination of things and some of them are:
* the DESIRE to catch the game, once a hound is whipped by the game they may chase it, but have lost the desire to abuse their bodies and catch the game at all cost.
A hound with intense desire requires a lesser amount of scent to motivate them.
*Heredity, Genetics, Without high physical and mental ability you just have a nice dog.

And most important is a owner/handler who doesn't think that they can motivate to train superior tracking ability. Mr. Derden once explained breeding by saying "You can't get pecans from a peanut plant"
As ever, Ken Risley

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

quote:

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Originally posted by Kler Kry
I believe that it takes a combination of things and some of them are:
* the DESIRE to catch the game, once a hound is whipped by the game they may chase it, but have lost the desire to abuse their bodies and catch the game at all cost.
A hound with intense desire requires a lesser amount of scent to motivate them.
*Heredity, Genetics, Without high physical and mental ability you just have a nice dog.

And most important is a owner/handler who doesn't think that they can motivate to train superior tracking ability. Mr. Derden once explained breeding by saying "You can't get pecans from a peanut plant"
As ever, Ken Risley

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Central,illinois
Posts: 569

Reuben, interesting post thanks can I ask what type of dogs you hunt with? I've never been hog hunting with dogs, thanks in advance,

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

I hunt mountain cur x PLOTT hound...

I used to hunt Mt cur and I got out for a few years...been looking for the same or better ever since...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

I think winding plays a big part in finding and running a track...also having a good nose is just as important...

A dog that has the genetic makeup to want to wind is a better dog than one that is inclined to take a track that he has to be on top of it before his brain clicks...

Nose power...I have seen a hog cross an open meadow and 5 minutes later I sees dog come along on the track and he has his nose down on the track and he is running at less than half speed and following the track scent like a Springer spaniel on pheasant...

In the same type scenario I have seen dogs come into the meadow running almost wide with their heads held high...sometimes we see these dogs running to one side off of the track using the wind currents in tracking their game...

There are dogs that when coming into a feeder track spending some time working it out and then you have a dog that swings out making a wide loop and finding the hot end of the tracks pretty quick...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Central,illinois
Posts: 569

Reuben, you mentioned a pup getting down on his front end and you said you knew what he was trying to do.....can you explain that please ....thanks

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

quote:

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Originally posted by Cotton 1927
Reuben, you mentioned a pup getting down on his front end and you said you knew what he was trying to do.....can you explain that please ....thanks

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 821

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
What makes dogs have superior tracking ability over others.

Are they more intelligent ?


Tar

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

quote:

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Originally posted by Ron Moore
Attempting to answer the original question. I remember way back in the day, the old fox hunters of WV talked about a good cut dog. This was a dog that would get behind the chase, for what ever reason, and shut up and get ahead of the lead dog before it opened up again. Now, in my opinion, these types of dogs possess more intelegants, than tracking ability.

When choosing a pup with these desired traits, I would look for the parents and grand parents to possess the same traits. In other words, if I was looking for a winning race horse, a colt out of a horse like Secretariat would be a good starting place, lol. As we all know, there's no guarantees but there's such a thing as upping the odds.

there's such a thing as upping the odds.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

You've forgot more than some will ever know. Too bad that you aren't a walker dog breeder!

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Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 340

A few years back I use to have rabbit dogs. Had a pretty good tight pack of hounds. Use to field trial a little too. A guy I hunted with had a male dog he called joe. At the time I thought joe was a piece of junk, because of what the field trials had me believing. Well my buddy an joe was a force to reckon with when it came to actual rabbit hunting. Ole joe was a cutting fool an his owner knew it an would kill every rabbit joe would pick back up. Ended up liking the ole dog when I figured him out. I to believe it is natural talent an drive ole joe had. We try to make dogs fit our man made rules an in the end we loose the natural ability a hound is suppose to have.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: georgia
Posts: 56

You have hunters and breeders . A lot of hunters, fewer hard hunters and a lot of breeders but even fewer true breeders. I think we all fall into one of these categories. The hard hunter and true breeder combination are as rare as that special hound that all of us are seeking. It’s even more rare to find that hard hunter true breeder combination that has started and continued their own line of hounds through decades of their own line breeding program. It takes a lot of time, dedication and commitment .I put myself in the hunter category. I’m actually in the middle of an experiment that I’ve been conducting for the last 2 yrs. with a couple of these type guys. It doesn’t take long when you have a conversation with them to understand the knowledge and the level of commitment they have to preserve the traits they’ve bred for throughout the years. They have the innate ability to describe hounds they’ve owned for generation after generation.
I grew up hunting with balanced, accurate coonhounds and am trying to get back to that style of hound. I personally believe that a balanced, accurate Coondog as Joe House used to say will “Stand the Test of Time” and contrary to what some on here believe can compete in any KC with whatever rules, time limit etc. regardless of year, decade or even century you put em in. I find it interesting in the past that all you needed to describe a Coondog was one word “Coondog “. I now find myself using balanced, and accurate to describe the same thing. The biggest difference that I see in the Coondogs of now and of yesteryear. It takes more words to accurately describe one these days.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1911

Thanks kler...your giving me too much credit...


Scott...I totally agree with you...
A coon dog is a coon dog now or back then...there shouldn’t be any difference in ability and they won’t look bad in any company...

Sgraves spoke of his beagles and a friends beagle named Joe...

The sentence below I quoted Sgraves and I agree with what he said...

We try to make dogs fit our man made rules an in the end we loose the natural ability a hound is suppose to have.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Mar 2016
Location: Central,illinois
Posts: 569

Good reading this morning ,I was painting the foyer ceiling this morning and took a break, and started reading made me feel like I was sitting around the fire talking to some dog men....thanks and stay safe!

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