Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

If my character is being judged by speaking the truth, Well I’m Ok with that.
Have a great day.

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What TRUTH did you speak? You made a false and unfounded statement the I and others would only use and responses you made to tear your responses apart with false conspiracy theories and unfounded statements. You tell me what is the TRUTH in your allegations. I am in no way part of any conspiracy theory regarding you or your dogs and you MADE a FALSE statement regarding that allegation. Why you would make this statement amazes me, since I have been one if your strongest supporters, complimenting your stock of dogs many times on this forum. I am not part of any if your issues with any other forum members and you were wrong to make any reference to me regarding any conspiracy theory. Insecurity on your part does not make me guilty of anything and your unwillingness to accept wrongdoing on your part speaks for your character. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Dave I apologizes to you but apparently that was not good enough so you fill the need to pick every word apart and attack my character, well there ya go.
Again Have A Great Day!

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Both of you have been breeding dogs for years now, Why don't you guys share your thoughts on these questions being asked, after several generations of the same line of dogs, you guys should be able to address these questions as to your own experiences. Are your desirable traits being passed on and how many generations are you seeing them in, is it a trait and not learned behavior? Is it dominant or recessive? Any bad traits that you have tried to eliminate? Have you been successful in eliminating them and if so, how many generations did it take? Does anything popup in New generations that were not seen in previous generations? Have you been able to put any new traits in your breeding stock? Have you lost any desirable traits in the newest generations? Do you breed for improvement of the breed? How successful have you been in improving the breed? If so, how many generations did it take? Are you getting better dogs with each newer generation or are the dogs not as good as prior generations? Answer these questions based on your own experiences that way they should be factual. Thank you guys in advance. Dave

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 11-19-2019 at 03:03 AM

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Well since you did not address any of my concerns as to why you made those comments in the first place, did you in fact apologize? It's easy to say things that are inaccurate and blame someone else for ones own mistakes. Never have I given you any reason to think that I would made any conspiracy theory remarks about you or your dogs. You are in fact the one that made that remark in one post and went on to say you spoke the TRUTH in a later post. I did not attack your character, I only stated the facts. You made unfounded remarks that you can not back up and state you told the TRUTH, Really! If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's most likely a duck, based on 60 plus years of my experience with ducks. Have a nice day. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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It's a shame you were not a coonhunters, I think you would have been a breeder that would have made a positive impact on our coon dogs. Definitely one that folks could trust and one that wanted the best dogs he could get. If I was a hog hunter, I would want some of your stock of dogs to hunt. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
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Ya'll tell me My Sandy 2 Dog is only 1/8 Redbone , her sire is my Curly dog 1/4 RB , his Sire was Fido 1/2 Redbone , Boomer was his Sire a PR Redbone out of my Sandy Dog and Kim Clarks Tree Fiddling Snake and she looks and sounds just like my ole Sandy Dog to a T , even Locates like her.

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The more laws a nation has the more corrupt the nation.

When the law of the land becomes unjust outlaws will rise to take their place in history.

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
Well since you did not address any of my concerns as to why you made those comments in the first place, did you in fact apologize? It's easy to say things that are inaccurate and blame someone else for ones own mistakes. Never have I given you any reason to think that I would made any conspiracy theory remarks about you or your dogs. You are in fact the one that made that remark in one post and went on to say you spoke the TRUTH in a later post. I did not attack your character, I only stated the facts. You made unfounded remarks that you can not back up and state you told the TRUTH, Really! If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, looks like a duck, it's most likely a duck, based on 60 plus years of my experience with ducks. Have a nice day. Dave

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by nitehunter2004
You have 60 years experience on Anything ever talked about on this board, we all know not to speak of you in any way that you may not understand because the attacks from you will Keep coming until You get the last word! Yes I apologize to you but it didn’t meet your conditions so It didn’t count and you could not let it go you had to pick every word apart just like I said you would in my original post, Well you don’t intimidate me in any way cause Dave I’m not as good as I once was but I’m as good once as I ever was.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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So Chuck, that is 4 generations isn't it? You can carefully breed new traits in, breed old traits out or just keep the ones you have for 4-7 generations. And sometimes they just seem to pop in or out no matter what you do. Breeding sure can get complicated.

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Location: Newton, North Carolina
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Come on Tim ! Ain’t nobody wants to argue. You were the furthest from my mind when I gave my opinion on dna. And yes there is a way around it. Not saying anybody does it anymore and for one I could care less if they do. I am on the I just want to have fun stage of my life. Don’t sweat the small stuff.


Tar

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Location: Marietta
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quote:

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Originally posted by nitehunter2004
Make no mistake about it I’m having the best years of my life, see I came to your defense not once but twice an you stabbed me in the back.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Ain’t nobody stabbing you or downing your accomplishments have fun with what your doing. I got the same stuff you got be foolish for me to down you.

It’s all good.

Tar

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Registered: Apr 2015
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You really have a way of showing any real appreciation to anyone that tries to befriend you. In your mind you have convinced yourself that folks are out to malign you, even the ones that have fully supported you, even the ones that have never gave you a reason to think otherwise. I have not been a party to anything even remotely linked to belittling you or your dogs. Everything I have stated is the TRUTH, can you say the same? You must be paranoid to even think that other folks just want to pick you apart with some conspiracy idea. Lol. As far as being as good once as I ever was, well I have accepted the fact that I am NOT. I have nothing to prove to anyone. You can argue with someone that cares what you think and that's not me! I wish you the best. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
How many generations does a male or female pass their traits on? I know that the sire and dam each only pass 50% of their genetic makeup to their pups. So their grand pups only have 25% of their genetic makeup and their great grandpups only have 12.5% of their genetic makeup. So how far down the line do y'all think that you can see traits from a dog's ancestor?

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
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In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-20-2019 at 05:42 PM

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quote:

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Originally posted by Pat Bizich
So to answer the question more precisely you could have a trait from 5-6 generations back show up if they happen to connect when a breeding is made.

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Now that part I understand. But can't you breed out a trait whether it is dominant or recessive? If you breed a male with a double dominant or DD trait to a female with a double recessive, rr, recessive and dominate Dr or double recceise, rr, trait then you can get a pup with a Dr. Now if you breed that pup to a dog with a Dr or rr, you can get a double recessive or rr trait. You have bred out the original DD trait haven't you?

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: WI
Posts: 434

A lot of the traits we are breeding for have more than one pair of genes that influence that trait. If you do the math on just 4 sets of genes you will see there are many possibilities for the pup to receive from the parents.

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I have my best hound now. Cricket out of Moonlight/Outlaw Mac by Feldmans Roxie,

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Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

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Originally posted by Black Ash Bawl
A lot of the traits we are breeding for have more than one pair of genes that influence that trait. If you do the math on just 4 sets of genes you will see there are many possibilities for the pup to receive from the parents.

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__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 11-20-2019 at 08:50 PM

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Excellent posts and excellent answers, therein lies the reasons why we can't breed generation after generation of World Class dogs. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Now that part I understand. But can't you breed out a trait whether it is dominant or recessive? If you breed a male with a double dominant or DD trait to a female with a double recessive, rr, recessive and dominate Dr or double recceise, rr, trait then you can get a pup with a Dr. Now if you breed that pup to a dog with a Dr or rr, you can get a double recessive or rr trait. You have bred out the original DD trait haven't you?

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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traits can be bred in and bred out...some will pop up when we least expect it to happen...my belief is that a good offense is the best defense...so only breed dogs that display the traits we want and you will increase the percentages in your favor over time...

If you bring in new and unrelated dogs to breed then it could be a setback in consistency when it comes to the pups but you might get better specimens (hybrid vigor) but will produce lower percentages of quality pups...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Some things like color we understand better as to what is dominant, it's certain things that we don't understand exactly as to the true nature of what trait is dominant and what trait is recessive. Pinpointing what is actually a trait and what is training is the hard part, but getting down to knowing what traits are going to be dominant or were the right combination of recessive genes is even more difficult. You, as a breeder are trying to breed the best to the best for those traits you desire, are you discovering new things that you can say are traits that your dogs pass on? I respect your opinion on this subject. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

Last edited by Dave Richards on 11-21-2019 at 01:53 AM

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Dave

I chose to talk about color and also chose black and yellow because it is probably the easiest example...

The best line of dogs I had was between 1988 and 2008 when I thought I had enough experience for a good breeding program and so I created a goal and a plan on how to accomplish it...I tweaked and improved it along the way...really a lot of the good works was done before me...I used Mt curs from big game (bear and hog) and top coon and squirrel world champion lines and then bred those together...line breeding and inbreeding...every dog I bred was a good dog...maybe not perfect but better than most...I didn’t select for any one trait...I selected for the complete package as to what I wanted...

I liked grit, early starters, dogs that hunted with me but taking tracks as they come...absolutely no straight running dogs that passed up good tracks...but dogs that start close and circle further out as needed and striking game and not take long doing it and getting further out quickly as needed...and stick with a bad running hog as long as it takes to get the job done...

The biggest thing for me is selecting for natural ability through natural inclination and I was and am able to do this by testing the pups...

My mindset is like this...if a litter of 8 pups are tested for winding and on the first time of testing one or two pups put their noses to the wind and lock in without any coaxing then that is natural inclination...and if over the next 4 or 5 sessions all are doing it then it is a good thing but I give more points to those that did it on their own the first time...natural inclination for winding...so what type of dogs do we want to breed? the kind that we have to put through many winding scenarios before they get it or...those that are winding naturally without any training to speak of...or do we breed those that we feed many tracks to get them to hunt...or do we breed the kind that can pass on that natural inclination to hunt naturally or strikes naturally or whatever we test for that tested naturally...it should be a no brained... breed those that tested for natural and who went on to prove themselves as great hunting dogs...natural ability begets more natural ability... and

Something else I will say about traits...as generations went by I had dogs with more hunt and more grit...more hunt to the point of overheating and dying from heat exhaustion if not calling them out of the woods...

I will also say this...my personal theory based on what I have seen...it is not only about the dog that makes him or her great...it is what is inside the dog that makes them great...what you can not see...which is the ability to pass on traits better than themselves...and that is true because I have seen it...

I see on here what many will say...I tone my dog in...I train my dog to do what I want with the Garmin...that is ok and it is great handling...but when those dogs get bred they beget more of the same type and then we wonder why there is so many culls...great handlers can do these things but the average handler will not be able to hunt this type of dog...

Right now I can tell you I have culled many pups and I have decent dogs but I can not say they will reproduce consistently at this point in time but I am headed in the right direction...

These are about the best answers I can give you...which is my personal opinions based on what I have seen and through that I have developed my personal theories on breeding and training...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

Last edited by Reuben on 11-21-2019 at 04:09 AM

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As always you gave truthful answers based on knowledge and experience and your observations that you witnessed. Knowing what you WANT and being able to see that in a pup takes experience and hands on experience. Select breeding and seeing these traits appear in future generations prove you are making the right choices. Breeders breeding based on paper just to sell pups are not going to have the results you have. Most probably don't care, it's just money in their pocket. I could never be a breeder, as I get attached to the puppies and I definitely have no desire to be a trainer. I do respect breeders such as yourself that have the desire to produce the best dogs they can and know what they are doing to get the best. Breeding dogs based on titles does little to improve the breed, as has been proven many times by many different breeders, all it does is help sell pups. Big game hunters have proved thatbreeding based on performance is what really matters most and that an all grand pedigree means little in predicting the quality of a pup. I buy dogs based on their performance , an all grand pedigree means nothing to me, as the saying goes " papers don't tree coons" or anything else. Dave

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Dave Richards Treeing Walkers Reg American Saddlebred and Registered Rocky Mt. Show Horses

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Location: Nichols Ny
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quote:

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Originally posted by Dave Richards
As always you gave truthful answers based on knowledge and experience and your observations that you witnessed. Knowing what you WANT and being able to see that in a pup takes experience and hands on experience. Select breeding and seeing these traits appear in future generations prove you are making the right choices. Breeders breeding based on paper just to sell pups are not going to have the results you have. Most probably don't care, it's just money in their pocket. I could never be a breeder, as I get attached to the puppies and I definitely have no desire to be a trainer. I do respect breeders such as yourself that have the desire to produce the best dogs they can and know what they are doing to get the best. Breeding dogs based on titles does little to improve the breed, as has been proven many times by many different breeders, all it does is help sell pups. Big game hunters have proved thatbreeding based on performance is what really matters most and that an all grand pedigree means little in predicting the quality of a pup. I buy dogs based on their performance , an all grand pedigree means nothing to me, as the saying goes " papers don't tree coons" or anything else. Dave

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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