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Elijah Goheen
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Registered: Feb 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7

Dogs running quiet?

The past 2 nights my 2 redbones have been running quiet. Only one chase where they opened up each night and ended up being short chases ending at den trees. Tuesday night, before they ran the track that ended up at the den tree, they both ran a long track up out of the creek bottom, along the ridge, and up to the next flat. Whatever it was had them run a big circle on that flat like it was trying to confuse them or something and then busted straight out the ridge towards the edge of the mountain down toward the river. Also they would stop and be stationary for a while like they were tree’d and the garmin would mark them as tree’d, but every time I got within 150-100 yards of where it marked them as tree’d they would break out into another chase that would go for 200-250 yards until they would be marked tree’d again. Not once did they open up or was I able to hear them open up, not on track or tree during this chase. Almost had a similar chase like that tonight until I called them off it since they weren’t barking. Both dogs are 6 years old, I got them as pups years back. They both opened up loud and clear on Monday on track and tree when they put a coon up. Also they have never chased deer and from watching them on the garmin I don’t think this is a deer that they are chasing. Too much circling around. If you have any idea on what they could be chasing or why they haven’t opened up these past 2 nights please respond

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Old Post 04-09-2020 05:39 AM
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Crooked Branch
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Registered: Aug 2017
Location: Southern WV
Posts: 14

Sounds like a Bobcat.

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Old Post 04-09-2020 06:10 AM
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Elijah Goheen
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Registered: Feb 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7

Thanks. Been doing some reading also sounds like it could possibly be a fisher. I know we have some in the area too

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johnny reb
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: tennessee
Posts: 769

quote:
Originally posted by Crooked Branch
Sounds like a Bobcat.


That would be my guess also if it happens again try going into the tree with lights off and quite.

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BAS
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2020
Location: SE GA
Posts: 19

This reminds me of a older gentlemen that I hunted with years ago.
When the dogs was running something that we could not figure out, he would say "tem dawgs are after a dab gum Filly Twister agan"
If you asked him what a "Filly Twister" was, he would say if you can figure that out we will all know what the dogs were running.
Any time the dogs would run something that he could not figure out it was a Filly Twister.
So I guess your dogs were after a Filly Twister.

but sounds like your dogs are running a Cat. About 30 years ago I had a big redbone gyp that loved to run a cat. She was a very good coon dog unless she ran across a cat. She would leave a coon to run a cat.
You could tell when she was on a cat. She would get hush mouth. She would open very little and would not tree as hard. Just enough to keep up with her. Once this happen we would wait to go the tree. Let the Cat get cold then go to the tree with out lights off. This worked most of the time

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Old Post 04-09-2020 12:44 PM
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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1810

Sounds like deer to me. When they stop circling the deer have just stopped to get there breath. I have seen it happen more often than ya think. Some dogs just won't take a deer down others will. Sometimes the answer is very simple if ya can handle the honest truth others just won't believe there good old broke dog would run deer.

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Old Post 04-09-2020 02:10 PM
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FLYbyNIGHT
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2020
Location: E North Carolina
Posts: 133

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
Sounds like deer to me. When they stop circling the deer have just stopped to get there breath. I have seen it happen more often than ya think. Some dogs just won't take a deer down others will. Sometimes the answer is very simple if ya can handle the honest truth others just won't believe there good old broke dog would run deer.



Yeah deer are known to do circles...especially bucks..seen it when runnin deer dogs...
Might be a red fox ..they do circles also...heard a grey fox will climb trees..
They probably aint openin cuz they know they arent suppose to run that off game...

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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA
Posts: 1624

Bobcat or Grey Fox I would say.

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Old Post 04-09-2020 02:25 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1440

[QUOTE]Originally posted by pamjohnson
[B]Sounds like deer to me. When they stop circling the deer have just stopped to get there breath. I have seen it happen more often than ya think. Some dogs just won't take a deer down others will. Sometimes the answer is very simple if ya can handle the honest truth others just won't believe there good old broke dog would run deer.


But how fast the dogs were moving the track should give you some information. My $ is on coyote more than cat or deer. Coyote will run big circles to loose the dogs and hold up in brush n log piles and then make a break for it. But again its my experience that deer don't hold up long enough for the Garmin to "show treed" very often. How big of a loop that was run on the flats being described is key info. I haven't seen many cat races, but the ones a saw the dogs didn't push much harder or faster than a coon.

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myhosss
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Registered: Dec 2008
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GREY FOX

Grey Fox JUMPING AND LOOKING BACK.

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2ol2hunt
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 711

Probably"some kind of old doomus" ... If it's around water it's probably an "old water thang"... lol 😂

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Old Post 04-09-2020 08:18 PM
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Elijah Goheen
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Registered: Feb 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7

Thanks for all the replies. The chase itself Tuesday night was probably 2 hours long. When I did catch up to some of the areas where the garmin showed “tree’d” it usually was near a big dead fall that was down or in a spot w/ some big oaks or big pines. I also found a dead porcupine in the creek bottom not to far from where they first started the chase. And possibly could be deer as some have suggested, but I highly doubt it just because of the amount of times I have come across deer with them and they’ve shown no interest. Had more trouble with them chasing turkeys when they were younger than I ever did with deer. And I know from the past that if they bay something up I usually can only hear one dog bark because the other does a really low, mean sounding growl. The area has a lot of coyote/fox sign and we’ve had coyote,fox, fisher, bear and 1 bobcat on the trail cams in that same area over the years so who knows what it is. Thanks for all the input. If it happens again in the next couple nights or I end up ever seeing what it is they’re chasing I’ll let everyone know

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Elijah Goheen
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Location: Pennsylvania
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Also the circle that was ran before it broke out the flat/hill was probably about 150-250 yards big, not exactly sure. And the pace wasn’t very fast at all. It was like they’re typical trailing speed other than the few burst out the flat. Almost like what ever it was did a lot of sneaking around/trying to trick them before running. Once or twice I thought they were calling it quits and coming back because they were going back across the hill the way they came, and then they would either break up or down hill then end up going back out towards the edge of the mtn/river, almost like whatever it was would get out in front of them, go back over it’s track, break off, and try and get up above them or below them

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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2384

I'm going with coyote. A dog would bark running any game other than another dog.

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Old Post 04-10-2020 12:47 AM
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Dave Richards
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Post

One does not really know what the dogs are running, but you know it's not a coons. If it's not a coons, you should never let them run anything else. If they were mine they would get shocked for messing with off game. Dave

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shadinc
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You're right, Dave. As a coon hunter there's only two things your dog ran run. Coons and non-coons.

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Old Post 04-10-2020 01:36 AM
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Elijah Goheen
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Registered: Feb 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 7

Yeah you guys are definitely right about that. I’m gonna shock them off of it if it happens again. I wouldn’t mind them chasing cats but here in PA we can only take 1 per person and the season isn’t very long so there isn’t much of an opportunity for it. When I originally got them I wanted to train them for coon and cat but could never find any fresh tracks to put them on. And being in high school at the time I didn’t have enough free time to really go searching for cat tracks

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Dave Richards
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Elijah

You will better off in the long run, as you Said 1 cat limit and short season is not much incentive to have them run bobcat ever. I have seen good coons dogs aggrevate you to death messing with a bobcat. Mine do not get by messing with anything but a coon track. Dave

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paridgerunner
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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Woodbury, Pa
Posts: 59

fisher

Not sure what part of Pa you're in, but I'd say good chance of a fisher, from what you described that's what it sounds like me.

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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1440

quote:
Originally posted by Elijah Goheen
Also the circle that was ran before it broke out the flat/hill was probably about 150-250 yards big, not exactly sure. And the pace wasn’t very fast at all. It was like they’re typical trailing speed other than the few burst out the flat. Almost like what ever it was did a lot of sneaking around/trying to trick them before running. Once or twice I thought they were calling it quits and coming back because they were going back across the hill the way they came, and then they would either break up or down hill then end up going back out towards the edge of the mtn/river, almost like whatever it was would get out in front of them, go back over it’s track, break off, and try and get up above them or below them


Fisher is my guess by all the info. The speed of the track and the smaller circles and the dead porky point me that direction. Fisher can timber out like squirrel and bail out like bobcats sometimes. If the speed of the track was faster it could be fox or coyote. Grey fox run figure 8's and reds run 100-300 yard loops but the loops will move in a direction from what I've seen. And coyotes will run 300 yard loop to 3 mile loop or straight line for miles. It depends on the coyote on how he runs when pressure is applied. I've also seen coyotes run back n forth on top of a ridge for 3 hours running from clear cut to clear cut. Deer can do anything but most dogs move deer tracks at a pretty speed. Deer usually do bigger loops like a fox but bigger.

Just my personal experiences I thought I'd share so if you see if you've got an idea what it is.

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Preacher Tom
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Re: Post

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
One does not really know what the dogs are running, but you know it's not a coons. If it's not a coons, you should never let them run anything else. If they were mine they would get shocked for messing with off game. Dave



Dave I had been waiting for someone to say that.

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Clovis A Nailor
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Registered: Dec 2019
Location: Arkansas
Posts: 245

I would think coyote. A coyote ain't no chump. He'll run almost right in front of a dog he's not going to waste energy leaving the country unless you have a dog or dogs that have some grit to them. I've seen my coyote hounds go silent when they looking at one don't want to waste a bark if they trying to catch him. I would think your dogs where looking at one and didn't know what to do with him and he would run and stop really he was playing with them. I would say it don't matter they where trashing light them up next time.

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Clovis A Nailor
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A coyote will only go the speed he needs to go to stay just in front of what's running him I don't care if you are have 13 inch beagles or some hard running foxhounds. A coyote race is a 50% sight race terrain matters in just how much they looking at him. If he don't think he has to run to stay safe he simply won't run.

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Elijah Goheen
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Registered: Feb 2020
Location: Pennsylvania
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Thanks for the replies. Definitely gonna shock them if it happens again

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