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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2833

Thanks HERSHSHUNTIN. The advisor always settles it unless there has been a revision. lol. Sounds good to me.

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Old Post 10-03-2018 08:34 PM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5822

Re: Re: Re: Hummm

quote:
Originally posted by HERSHSHUNTIN
a) Coon is found before shining time expires.
Immediately after the point where a majority of the cast has plainly seen the coon without question--it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.
b)Cast members suspend the search before shining time expires without finding a coon.
Immediately after the point when all cast members are satisfied to quit the search-it becomes a ''previously'' scored tree.
c) Shining time expires and no coon is found.
Immediately following the 8 minutes expiration of shining time-it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.


this was taken out of the advisor 2nd edition on pages 51 & 52 the whole question on previously scored trees is there to read, I did change from 10 minutes to 8 minutes shine time.--it would take me all afternoon to quote the whole question & their reply.--lol--I know a lot will disagree with the ruling--but its not mine.
in the end it looks like delete strike points to the dog coming in after the tree is scored to me.


×2 not sure where this until dogs are re-cut thing comes from but if also in this advisor they contradict each other and the second needs done away with.

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Old Post 10-03-2018 08:46 PM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
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Here I am trying to teach a 6 year old the rules and hosting youth events. I would urge any of you to try to clarify rules from multiple advisors some of which contradict themselves and explain them to a child or new comers without discouraging them. Here's my idea do away with it by going through the whole thing if there is not a rule on the card for something in the advisor make one that is clear and in black and white easy to follow. I understand that not every scenario can be covered but simple to follow instructions makes most much easier. All rules should easily fit upon a one page pamphlet no need for 3 books a score card and an internet site pages and pages long. It is hard enough for an experienced handler to keep up with. A person should not need a PhD to hunt. Black and white rules in easy to understand langauge and to enforce cut out the loopholes and gray areas are confusing and also used against new comers to this sport.

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Old Post 10-03-2018 09:04 PM
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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Ok so as soon as we all vote the coon is there a dog can come in and tree with no consequences.

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Old Post 10-03-2018 10:58 PM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5822

quote:
Originally posted by joey
Ok so as soon as we all vote the coon is there a dog can come in and tree with no consequences.

Yes.
a) Coon is found before shining time expires.
Immediately after the point where a majority of the cast has plainly seen the coon without question--it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.
b)Cast members suspend the search before shining time expires without finding a coon.
Immediately after the point when all cast members are satisfied to quit the search-it becomes a ''previously'' scored tree.
c) Shining time expires and no coon is found.
Immediately following the 8 minutes expiration of shining time-it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.

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Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
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*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

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Old Post 10-03-2018 11:24 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
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Posts: 10790

Yuh yo lol.



Tar

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Old Post 10-03-2018 11:27 PM
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groworg1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1876

Re: recast

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Okay I think once the tree is scored it's done, but what if you guys are right and not until they are recast. a couple of ?s. so 3 dogs tree and are scored 4 dog is on the paper with strike points you walk away from scored tree listen for dog put 8 on dog next time he barks you can tell he is treed on the scored tree, but handler knows this so he doesn't tree, do you recut your dogs or not? what happens to his strike points? next ? same thing 3 nite champs treed done nothing seen, you walk away last dog 7 min. later opens treed on same tree now a possum is up that same tree what the heck do you do? one last ? 3 dogs done you leave last dog trees no coon the first time but coon now?
oh my 1st question if the dog is still on the 8 release your dogs worse can happen is going back to previous scored tree and if the 8 caught the dog minus after 3rd bark for not striking his dog 3 more barks he is scratched ! next question scratch for molesting off game ! last question tough break as you can't score on previous tree i maybe wrong and your welcome to question it and if your not happy with vote put question mark on card and let a moh or panel decide and if your not happy with that file a formal complaint

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Old Post 10-04-2018 12:05 AM
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joey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Yes.
a) Coon is found before shining time expires.
Immediately after the point where a majority of the cast has plainly seen the coon without question--it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.
b)Cast members suspend the search before shining time expires without finding a coon.
Immediately after the point when all cast members are satisfied to quit the search-it becomes a ''previously'' scored tree.
c) Shining time expires and no coon is found.
Immediately following the 8 minutes expiration of shining time-it becomes or is considered a ''previously'' scored tree.



So what do you do with Todds ruling that a dog that comes into a cast leading away from the tree is scored according to how the tree was scored? Several years ago but that was how he ruled it. Also what are the quotes from the advisor pertaining too? What was the rest of the article? I do not have one. Lost it years ago. BTW I agree its obvious what happens if they tree after you have walked away.

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Last edited by joey on 10-04-2018 at 12:52 AM

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Old Post 10-04-2018 12:49 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
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Posts: 5612

Michael Rosemond

The ADVISOR ruling sets the precedent, just like case law. Rule as per the ADVISOR and everyone is getting the same ruling. Dave

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Old Post 10-04-2018 01:32 AM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Moderator

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5822

quote:
Originally posted by joey
So what do you do with Todds ruling that a dog that comes into a cast leading away from the tree is scored according to how the tree was scored? Several years ago but that was how he ruled it. Also what are the quotes from the advisor pertaining too? What was the rest of the article? I do not have one. Lost it years ago. BTW I agree its obvious what happens if they tree after you have walked away.

Not sure where Todd may have got this logic from but they interpret the rules lol. Now how would you score a tree when a dog comes into a cast leading away according to how it was scored by dogs that were scored on it? Even if the logic at the time was the tree isn't previously scored yet? That would mean that a dog would be scratched for a possum, plussed for a coon, minused on slicks and circled on trees with refuge that they haven't even treed on instead of having the time put on them for not hunting. Even if the dog is handled at the tree while it is being scored it is not accountable like that. And the rule that defines a tree being previously scored is a big contradiction to his thinking.

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Cheyenne & Jennifer Cummings
Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
"TEAM MAFIA"
*NATIONAL GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(5) HALL OF FAME PKC PLATIUM CH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST. 2021 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4.
*PKC WORLD CHAMPION PLATNIUM CHAMPION GRNITECH SHACK'S HEATHER ISLAND SOUTHERN STOGIE
2021 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2022 PKC WORLD CHAMPION, 2022 MO PKC STATE LEADER

RIP
*GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA PKC HALL OF FAME REPRODUCER INDUCTED 2022
*GRNITECH CH PKC SILVER CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION, 2020 MO PKC STATE LEADER

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Old Post 10-04-2018 02:15 AM
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yadkintar
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I know better but lol. If you are leading away all three dogs and the fourth dog goes over and you know for sure it is a previously scored tree the handler must strike and tree his dog and you give him permission to get his dog the reason you make him strike and tree his dig is in case he leaves before he can handle him once handled delete both strike and tree jmo.



Then go on with your hunt.


Tar

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Old Post 10-04-2018 02:25 AM
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Night Shift
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Guys you can be standing there and all see the coon it’s plused and 2 seconds later the other dog comes in. As soon as you all say you seen it it’s a scored tree.

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Old Post 10-04-2018 04:00 AM
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ov_blues
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Is anyone still looking for the ruling that many of us remember reading that the tree isn't considered previously scored until the dogs are recast? I find it hard to believe that several of us remember reading that if it didn't exist. The farthest I can find back is 2016 on UKC main page on the Coon Hound Adviser articles.

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Old Post 10-04-2018 10:44 PM
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Dave Richards
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Rules

The biggest issues with the RULES are people wanting to put their take/interpretation on them. Most of the RULES are fairly simple it's the handlers that want to complicate them. Heck, there are RULES that none of us like and don't always seem fair, but if they are applied the same EVERY TIME, we are all treated equal. When the RULES are applied differently by different people is when it's unfair. Know the RULES and apply them as UKC intends them to be applied, not as one thinks they should be! Nuff said. Dave

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Old Post 10-04-2018 11:04 PM
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yadkintar
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I am sorry Dave 3 advisor books 1 rule book and 1 card I can't remember all that stuff............. And now they are fixen to write a bunch more for their new programs.



I am so confused 😪

Tar

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Old Post 10-04-2018 11:23 PM
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groworg1
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Posts: 1876

quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
Is anyone still looking for the ruling that many of us remember reading that the tree isn't considered previously scored until the dogs are recast? I find it hard to believe that several of us remember reading that if it didn't exist. The farthest I can find back is 2016 on UKC main page on the Coon Hound Adviser articles.
i seem to remember it but have no proof i'm sure some guru could go thru the 96 bloodlines since last printing of 2nd addition in 2010 or someone from the ukc could just give us all the correct answer instead of giggling about all the wrong ones

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Old Post 10-05-2018 12:42 AM
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Dave Richards
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Tar

I feel your pain! Lol. Most of us that hunt in the hunts know the scorecard RULES and UKCS position on certain situations. The problems start from people thinking it should be a certain way at least in their mind. We tend to over think things that are fairly simple. We may not LIKE or AGREE with a certain RULE, but we should all Apply UKC'S position and not our own. Dave

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Old Post 10-05-2018 12:45 AM
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yadkintar
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Dave I am like you I been staring at this same set of rules a lot of years the only time I have to flip the card over is if Sombody don't understand a rule once I read it to them they are good I have not in years had Sombody come back with a serious question when I moh had several off the record questions somthing like they just wanted to know if they handled it right. I would hate to live where all these questions are coming from where grown men don't have enough common sense and sportsmanship to be able to flip the card over and settle any question.


By these rules the dog that trees the most coons should win the rules should never be used to try and cheat him out of it.


Tar

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Old Post 10-05-2018 01:09 AM
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ov_blues
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Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2833

I thought this question was so simple, a dog comes into a tree after being struck where dogs have already treed a coon and should be minused. Then I hear it is considered a previously scores tree and the dogs strike should be deleted. Honestly blew my mind. It the dog gets there a couple minutes earlier it gets minused but because they found the coon before the dog gets there the dogs strike points get deleted. Makes no sense whatsoever but if that is the ruling from Ukc then that is the way it is supposed to be scored.

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