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After Hours
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Registered: Jul 2019
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Posts: 22

Project coondog

Over the last few years I have been out of the game so to speak...trying to make a living and raise a family and ALL that entails. Recently, I decided I felt like cranking back up and trying to get another pup started. A couple of my good friends decided to go on the same journey with me. I started getting back on the message boards and I have been amazed at how dead the message board for the redbones has been over the last few months as I have started trying to catch up with current news, crosses, etc. This weekend my ‘team’ and I were fortunate enough to add 4 new prospects to our kennels.

I decided to start a thread here on the message board to track the progress of these prospects as we try to let them grow into coondogs. Maybe everyone can get some enjoyment out of following along. None of my team considers any of us to be ‘pro’ handlers/trainers by any stretch. We are just normal people who share a common interest in doing all we can to have a good redbone...a coondog first and foremost, and with a little luck a hound that compete competitively.

I suppose some people will poke fun at me for this thread. That’s okay. The main reason I am interested in doing this is just to document the progress of these young dogs and hopefully stir more interest on the message board and the redbone breed in general. I know there are many others in my area and across the US that share the goals I have of helping the redbone breed be competitive. I hear people talk about some that are jealous or not willing to help other groups/teams within the redbone breed. We have to get past all of that. This is not a place for any of those discussions to take place. So with that, please follow along if you would like and if not, that’s fine also. If at any time you have questions, let me know. If our team can do anything to help anyone else, please let me know.

Stay tuned for progress posts on our prospects. I should be able to post somewhat of a progress report every week or two. Thanks for following along.

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Old Post 10-28-2019 02:43 AM
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Adam Wingler
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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Western NC
Posts: 1446

I'll enjoy following along! Good luck, give us some info on the hounds purchased. Thanks and good luck.

Adam

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Old Post 10-28-2019 01:04 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17717

Oh my goodness, another "team"...... The After Hours Team.....
You will have to include some pictures of course.

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Old Post 10-28-2019 01:32 PM
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ING 194
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2013
Location: IL.
Posts: 147

Nice, I would like to know what bloodlines you've decided to to give a try.

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Old Post 10-28-2019 02:02 PM
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BLAKE WHEELER
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Registered: Jan 2008
Location: Macon Ga.
Posts: 731

Good luck with your new pups, I look forward to reading about their progress.

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Old Post 10-28-2019 04:40 PM
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After Hours
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Registered: Jul 2019
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Adam & ING 194

For the time being I am not going to say what the puppies are out of. Why? Well, what they are out of is important to me...but it wouldn’t change anything I am going to do as far as training goes...just suffice it to say, there is plenty of potential in these prospects. If anyone follows along that knows what pups I have, please keep it under your hat for the time being. The purpose of this thread is not to show off the pups out of a certain line, but instead to simply track progress of them as we try to help them become coon dogs. Please don’t take any of this the wrong way guys- people start getting biased when they know what lines pups are out of...so I am simply
Not willing to say at this time. Maybe I will tell once they reach certain milestones...haven’t thought it thru completely yet. Thank you for the interest and comments. Stick with me and let’s see what we learn thru the process.

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Old Post 10-28-2019 11:12 PM
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After Hours
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Registered: Jul 2019
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Day 1- 10-28-2019

I have one puppy at my house, the other three pups are at other team members houses. Started some minor groundwork stuff today. Daughter needed to practice shooting for youth deer season this coming wknd, so I had her shoot the 22 LR to start getting puppy used to gun fire. Very bold acting pup and he did not flinch one single time. Was all around our feet as she shot 20 times.

I am trying to teach my daughter Some of this stuff as we go. So I talked a lot today about how I want to ‘talk’ to the puppy. And how the way I talk to the puppy now will go into his memory. I like to use what a good friend of mine calls a gruff voice or a praising voice. Gruff voice is used when puppy is doing something bad, praising voice is used when puppy is doing something good or pleasing. So I practiced both voices minimally today when the opportunity presented itself. Also introduced puppy to playing with a drag. Just feel like if the drag cloth is used to play with him, he will associate it with ‘fun’ times and later on when I make drags for him it will be ‘fun’ for him to hunt those drag cloths up. I did add some coon scent to the drag cloth to start scent association also. We played with the pup and drag around the house for 30 minutes or so. Spent about 5 minutes seeing if pup would Use his nose to try to find drag. Test was passed with puppy using nose and obviously changing course when crossing the drag trail. Successful start. Stay tuned.

Richard Lambert- I did not get pictures today, but I will get pictures along the way.

Blake Wheeler- Thank you for the comments. It appears you have a nice hound in Maxx.

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Old Post 10-28-2019 11:24 PM
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ING 194
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Registered: May 2013
Location: IL.
Posts: 147

Not to bad for the first day. My only reason for the bloodline was to see if the pups were heavy line bred.

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Old Post 10-29-2019 06:32 PM
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Tad Banks
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Registered: Feb 2008
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 141

Project puppy

Could you tell us what state you live in and will you be training on private or public land Thanks

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Old Post 10-29-2019 09:08 PM
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After Hours
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Registered: Jul 2019
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Posts: 22

Tad Banks

I am located in Arkansas. Most, if not all, of the training that takes place early on will take place on private land. I am fortunate to live on a small cattle farm where most of the training will happen.

Once we progress to actual hunting, there will be some trips taken to private land.

Didn’t get much accomplished today besides general exercise. Work around the farm got in the way and it started raining.

ING 194- Technically, only one of these pups would be classified as being linebred.

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Old Post 10-30-2019 02:46 AM
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After Hours
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Training today

It has been a couple weeks since I have posted anything. All 4 puppies are doing fine according to reports from my buddies. The male puppy at my house has been named LUCKY. We haven’t done a lot of intense training over the last 10 days or so. We have been somewhat sidetracked with work and working on the farm. The shorter days are challenging the system. Last wknd, we took Lucky with us to a friends cabin for the youth deer hunt. My 7 year old bagged her first deer! Exciting times. Lucky behaved like a gentleman the entire wknd. Stayed in the cabin with us in his kennel during sleeping hours and mostly on the couch when everyone wasn’t hunting. I guess you could say he was getting a little spoiled. Just feel like the more time he spends right beside me(or anyone), the quicker he will learn proper manners. He was very laid back and mature acting for the most part. Every day when I get home from work I get him out of his kennel and let him tag along for the farm chores to be done. He normally runs behind the 4 wheeler checking cows and gets a ton of exercise. Yesterday evening I worked with Lucky on a drag. Used some coon scent on an old rag and attached a hot dog to it. My hope is that as he plays with the drag and gets to nibble at the hot dog he associates that scent with fun and reward. I realize the coon scent I use might not be ‘accurate’ or as good as a real coon, but it is more about him getting associated with that scent. As I train him, and as I progress into turning a couple coons loose for him, I will actually apply that same coon scent to those turned loose coons. He did show some ability to find the ‘track’ and run the track for a little way. I basically put him in a dog box and use my rag drag and drag a straight line for about 10 yds and then hang the drag cloth up off ground where he can barely reach it. Yesterday on the first run I hung it on a cattle corral panel and the second run I hung it on an electrical pole. I wetted the cloth and then applied coon scent and tied the hot dog to the drag as well. I remember exactly where I started the drag. I took Lucky out of the box and Went to the area where I started the drag(within 10 ft) and I started talking to Lucky. I suppose everyone can use different language for this part but I always say “look for him Lucky, coons in here, look for him”. I won’t ever say that to Lucky except for when I wang him to look for a coon or when I know there is a coon track close by. I am simply trying to use that as a ‘trigger’ for him to find the coon track. Lucky didn’t have any trouble finding the start of the either drag track yesterday. I honestly think he was winding the scent before he ever actually got to the track. As far as I am concerned both runs were fine and they both turned out basically the same. Lucky found the track, followed the track, over ran the track....and here is the important part, circled back to see if he could find it again. He didn’t just quit it and go on to something else. He actually circled back and tried to find the track again. Neither of the runs resulted in a drag that got treed or not even so much as a glance in the upward direction. That’s all fine with me. I saw what I was looking for. Find the track, follow the track, lose the track, have enough interest to find track again. I praised him all I could whenever I saw chances on this. And as a reward I got the drag down and just toyed with him for about 5 minutes. I swung it around, bouncing it off the ground and letting him chase it and try to grab the hot dog. I basically stuck with it until he has swiped the entire link. Then I petted him up god and showered him with praise and put him back in his pen and put him back in his kennel for the night.

Our rifle gun deer season opened today and I Took a little time after lunch to mess with Lucky. With the help of a neighbor, who gifted me with a trapped coon, and my old grnitech After Hours Badger, we introduced Lucky to his first real live raccoon. I wanted to utilize Badger to let Lucky try to ‘pack’ with the older dog. I felt like Badger going nuts over the coon would help give Lucky the confidence to bark a little at the coon. Also felt like it would help Lucky understand that the real live raccoon is what we are after. I fully expected for Lucky to run around behind Badger trying to play and not really have a lot of interest in the coon. I was surprised. He went right in to barking and carrying on like he had done the routine before. I think Badger being there, really helped Lucky want to get into the act. Will try to post pics/videos tomorrow.

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Old Post 11-10-2019 04:51 AM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17717

Posted for Brett....
He sure is a brave little sucker to only be 3 1/2 mos old.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 11-10-2019 at 02:38 PM

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Old Post 11-10-2019 02:36 PM
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After Hours
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Thank you Richard.

As u can see in the picture, this male pup was wound up. I limited this exposure to 7-8 minutes at the most and tried to put him up while he was still ‘wanting’ to get the coon.

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Old Post 11-10-2019 02:39 PM
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After Hours
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Test- trying to post picture

https://i.postimg.cc/QCMVHsHq/5-E56...FBE59-D5-E0.jpg

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Old Post 11-10-2019 02:41 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17717

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Old Post 11-10-2019 05:59 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17717

jpeg uploading site

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Old Post 11-10-2019 06:00 PM
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After Hours
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Registered: Jul 2019
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Posts: 22

Videos

I have videos of the past 2 days training with one pup yesterday and 2 in a video from today. I am glad to share them with anyone that is interested. They are just short clips. I cannot figure out how to post them on here. If you want to see them, text me and I will send them to you.

87zero-6eight8-0seven2zero

Just text me your name and that you are interested in seeing videos. These pups are 12 weeks and 3 days old today.

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Old Post 11-10-2019 10:07 PM
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After Hours
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Lucky and Mack

My buddy that has the other male
Puppy brought him over on Sunday. That is the second pup you see in the pics above. My buddy left him here for a couple day so the pups could play with each other a little. They have had a big time together. I messed with them with a drag a little this evening. They can both follow a drag track decent enough. I would say Lucky is a little of Mack right now but happy with what each of them are showing.

What do all of you guys normally see out of 12 wk old pups? What do u expect out of them at that age? What kind of training are each of you trying to conduct with your pup at that age? Looking for as much input as I can get.

Thanks for following along fellas. Don’t be afraid to post your thoughts on the progress or what you would normally do different, etc. I am partially doing this stuff to try to learn more myself, so don’t hold back.

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Old Post 11-13-2019 03:33 AM
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jdgher
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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1639

Nice pups

Looks like your off to a good start. I don't like to do too much of the coon in the cage hanging up in the tree thing. When they start to work real tracks and go to tree, they expect to see the coon, when they don't see the coon, they loose interest in the tree. You want them to tree on scent, not sight, is what I'm saying. I believe pups can have natural ability to do something and we as trainers can confuse them and mess that up, if not careful.

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Old Post 11-13-2019 04:58 AM
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After Hours
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Re: Nice pups

quote:
Originally posted by jdgher
Looks like your off to a good start. I don't like to do too much of the coon in the cage hanging up in the tree thing. When they start to work real tracks and go to tree, they expect to see the coon, when they don't see the coon, they loose interest in the tree. You want them to tree on scent, not sight, is what I'm saying. I believe pups can have natural ability to do something and we as trainers can confuse them and mess that up, if not careful.


Thanks for the input Darrin. Yeah, I think a lot of us out there struggle with knowing how much, or how often to expose a young dog to a cage coon? How often to try to do any form of training?...without over doing it...what age to actually start a young dog. Speaking for myself, I appreciate when the more experienced guys, such as yourself, provide some info on this stuff. Thank you again for the input.

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Old Post 11-14-2019 02:42 AM
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wlewis323
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Thanks for keeping this post going I enjoy reading along. I love hearing the full details from when you work with the drags. I’m currently about to start doing a few drags with my 3 pups that are about 12 weeks. Anyway I had one that I think I used a cage coon and caused him to be “looking” for the coon. I did two drags with coon p and didn’t leave nothing on the tree but the scent and he did great and the second drag he did even better. The coon p drag got my 6 month old male pup working a track and now locating the tree and treeing just with a few drags so far. Starting to really believe in these drags vs the cage coons

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Old Post 11-20-2019 12:12 PM
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After Hours
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Registered: Jul 2019
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Posts: 22

Thanksgiving

Hope everyone had a good Thanksgiving!

Pup training has been a little slower here than I would like. We have been in the middle of our deer season and I have been busy weaning calves. Has been hard to find time to train puppies. They have been getting plenty of exercise following me around on the 4 wheeler, but that’s close to it.

My friend that brought MACK home came by Wednesday and messed with the pups with a cage coon. Didn’t make a drag or anything, just more of an exposure with no ‘old’ dog involved to see if the puppies were brave enough to aggressively bark or be interested, when they didn’t have the big, bad, older dog to back them up. Puppies passed with flying colors. They were aggressive toward the coon and even trying to ‘tear’ into the cage.

Sometime this weekend I will do a little drag training with them....likely tomorrow. I will update everyone with progress report when I can.

One thing I will point out that has happened- I take the puppies with me most evenings to check cattle. Sometimes it is daylight, sometimes it is dark. A couple tendencies I have noticed:
MACK- if he cannot keep pace with my speed on 4 wheeler he barks like is chasing something- running it like he is tied to it- I almost have him broke from doing this now. As I drive thru the cows he typically follows the 4 wheeler all the way thru. If the cows mess with him he will not bow up on them he will cower to them and find a way around them. Lucky, on the other hand, NEVER barks while running behind the 4 wheeler. As we approach the cows he will find a safe spot and watch as Mack and I ride thru them, then he will meet back up with us when we get clear of a group of cattle. MACK barks in the kennel, Lucky never says a word. Lucky was more aggressive on cage coon when MACK wasn’t as aggressive and not quiet as much of a barker.

I don’t know that any of that means anything, but it is interesting to see the differences.

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Old Post 11-30-2019 04:48 AM
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After Hours
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Update on female puppies

Forgot to post an update on the female puppies that a third friend has. They are doing well. They are being raised quite differently than the boys are. I have to keep the boys kenneled most of time due to my proximity to a major highway. The girls get turned loose pretty much all day every day. They are being tutored on the ways of the world by a beagle named Sugar. From what I understand, Sugar is routinely taking Fenix and Kate on excursions. Todd said he walked the girls down in the woods on Wednesday afternoon and in no time, they had tore off down the hill, disappearing completely out of sight. Todd said he was surprised they would just leave out like that. He didn’t have any name collars on them and got worried they would get lost so he whistled and they came back in after a few minutes. They haven’t had any exposure to a coon yet.

Question(s) to the group:
Will the females turn out better than the males? Will the way they are being raised effect the type of finished products they become? Will their raising effect their hunting styles? Etc, etc, etc

I would love to hear everyone’s thoughts on letting puppies grow up while running loose mostly versus trying to train them as you go while raising them mostly in a kennel.

Last edited by After Hours on 11-30-2019 at 05:06 AM

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Old Post 11-30-2019 05:04 AM
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After Hours
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Lucky

Lucky got some one on one time this evening. I had a cage coon from the other day. I took it down to the edge of the field here at the farm. I always use a drag cloth attached to the cage. I typically take a cup of water and wet the drag cloth and use the rest of the water to wet down the coon(help with scent?). On a pup as young as Lucky, I try to lay down as much scent as possible. I want the puppy to have a successful/fun/rewarding exposure. So I try to make sure that I start out really easy with these drags. I make short, straight drags that are overflowing with scent and then I end the drags on BIG trees where the puppy won’t have any trouble getting and staying up on the tree. I carried the coon to where I wanted to start the drag, approx 10 yds from an ideal tree. I tie the drag cloth to the back end of the cage. I tie a rope to hang the coon from the tree to the front end of the cage. I wet the drag cloth, dump remainder of water on coon. Then I take my coon scent and liberally apply to the drag cloth and even squirt a little on the coon. Next I start the drag and about halfway to the tree I apply some more scent to the drag cloth. When I get to the tree I throw the rope over a limb and start lifting the coon. As I lift the coon I make sure and rub the drag cloth all over the tree. I even squirt a little scent straight into the tree also. I normally try to get the coon hanging from a branch that is high enough that the pup cannot see the coon and especially where they cannot reach the cage when they tear up on the tree or if they jump up beside the tree. I do all of this while the puppy is still kenneled at the house. Once the coon is tied off and hanging in the cage from the tree, I quickly get back to the kennel and pick up the puppy and immediately head back for the drag trail. Early on in the training, I will keep the pup on a lead until I am very close to the start of the trail. Sometimes I will walk the puppy right on top of the trail. I am watching closely as I do this for the puppy to show me that he smells the scent and is interested. If I turn him loose and he hasn’t found the trail yet, what if he turns and goes the other way and checks out some cows...now I have to round him back up...all the while the trail getting harder and harder(older, colder) for pup to smell. Like I mentioned earlier, I try to make sure the pup is successful and has fun and gets rewarded. So yes, I walk them right on top of the trail if I have to. When I know I am close I start talking to the pup saying “look for him Lucky, find a coon, look for him”. When I see the pup has found the scent I turn them loose.

Tonight I turned Lucky loose and he trailed for a few feet, drift off to the left, obviously loosing the trail, circled back and went perpendicularly across the trail, passing it again and didn’t really check up. He then found it again and darted forward past the tree into the woods. He funneled around in the woods just for a few seconds, came back out, smelled around where I had walked to tie rope off to another tree....finally came back and found the trail again, end t thru the same type of regimen again, getting off course and floundering around a little, circled back one more time, found trail again, followed it really close to tree, circled around tree.....

So, at this point I realize the pup isn’t going to smell up the tree and therefore sniff out the coon...so I walk over and untie rope from neighboring tree, drop coon down long enough for Lucky to see it, then pull it right back up into tree. Luckys attention is now all about how to get up to coon. He jumps, stands on back feet, jumps, whines, rears up on tree, whines, sits down on rear end and finally lets out a bark...I praise him “god job Lucky, good dog” while letting him a bit. I back off he barks a few more times...I praise him more, same type of deal, pet/praise, belly rub, etc. He decides he is gonna figure out how to get up to coon and goes they same routine again....me knowing that I don’t want him to loose interest...I drop down coon again for less than 5 seconds, Lucky acknowledges and barks at coon a few times and boom, I pull coon back up into tree. Lucky ‘tree barks’ several more times and when coon safely tied off again, I slip over and really shower Lucky with praise and pet him up good. I rub on the tree and do everything I can to try to let Lucky know I am part of his ‘pack’.

This all happens in less than 10 minutes. I always, always try to let it last no longer than 10 minutes. I try to take puppy away while they are still excited and interested. I praise Lucky all the way to the kennel and give him his favorite treat and a bowl full of food and put him up. I don’t know if it matters or not, but I try to be very careful from time leaving the con until time Lucky is out in pen and left alone- I try to be careful not to do any type of training/correction/etc- it is my belief that if I do one of those things, Lucky will be focused more on that, and I want him to remain focused on what he did right, at the tree, working the track, barking at the coon, etc.

After Lucky was back in his pen I went down and turned coon loose. It turns in to a fairly time consuming training session when it is all said and done and done properly- well properly in my mind. There are probably parts or maybe all of this that some people will disagree with. Some will probably agree with let’s or all of it also. This method has worked for me n the past. Might not be the best way, but it works for my situation.

I like to try to have someone help me when I do this routine. I prefer to be right beside the dog, petting and praising as they are barking at coon and have someone else letting the coon up and down(if needed). lucky will get to where he will tree on this without having to let up and or down. I have a short video if anyone is interested in seeing it, just shoot me a text.

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Old Post 12-02-2019 04:16 AM
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Rush Run Rebel
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Registered: Oct 2017
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after hours

word to the wise, if you plan on using a 4 wheeler or sidebyside to hunt out of, don't let your pups run with it.....they will associate it with coming to it and will complicate your hunts......the pups will pull and come to the wheeler if they hear it.....I haul my dogs in the sisde by side box and hunt from it, I do not let the dogs run with the machine.....just sayin.

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4J's Powerhouse Redbones
SW Pa.
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Old Post 12-02-2019 03:25 PM
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