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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8561

Rules Proposals 2019

Who's ready for some debate on the 2019 Rules Proposals? We'll be posting them shortly.

Of course, we expect your discussions, debates, and opinions. But if you really want your voice and opinions to be heard, you'll need to contact your chartered breed association with your input. They will be the one's casting the official votes for each proposal at the 2019 Autumn Oaks. Eventually, we will provide a contact for each of the associations. Most likely it will be through email.

In addition to the proposals, the individual(s) submitting the proposals have also included a statement noting why they think their proposal warrants consideration. Those will be included separately. Keep in mind, those statements reflect their opinion and may or may not reflect that of the association who forwarded it. Also, all proposals that were submitted, are on the list. In other words, UKC does not review and select which ones to go on the official ballot. They are all on the list.

This year we have several more proposals then normal. Keep in mind that some of the proposals are related to the format changes made this year. For instance, the one-hour hunt time options etc.. Before your're quick to the draw posting your personal opinion, you may want to read the statements provided and think about all the variables that might be effected. All proposals, with exception to the very last one, are directly related to the nite hunt running rules. The last one is a UKC policy that we'll let the committee decide. That one has to do with allowing Hunt Director's to hunt their dog and not be required to stay at the clubhouse.

Otherwise, please keep your debates and discussions civil. Remember, these are proposals only, they do not apply to your hunts this weekend or any UKC Nite Hunt in 2019. Any proposal passed by a majority vote in September, would then go into effect on January 1, 2020.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
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Posts: 8741

Hee ,hee,hee canít wait !



Tar

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Allen / UKC
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Registered: Nov 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Hee ,hee,hee canít wait !



Tar




Somebody better remove the batteries from Tar's handheld. He's dangerous with electronic gadgets.

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Old Post 05-08-2019 06:57 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8741

quote:
Originally posted by Allen / UKC
Somebody better remove the batteries from Tar's handheld. He's dangerous with electronic gadgets.



Itís in good hands now I am well pleased with the progress.


Tar

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Allen / UKC
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Have at it! They are listed at the top of the page.

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Old Post 05-08-2019 09:38 PM
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jdgher
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: East central Illinois.
Posts: 1610

Rules proposal link

http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...eadid=928518352

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Hoosier Man1
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Location: Ohio
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Seems like some pretty solid proposals.

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joey
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Is option B on the babbling rule not the rule we have now? Or am I missing something?

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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1114

I got a major gripe.
Allen you know I had trouble with my dysfunctional breed association even accepting my proposal. I still have my original e-mails, pm's, and replies from you and my contacts. All submitted prior to deadline as required.

Pertaining to the rule 16 proposal that was a proposal I made or loosely similar AND I submitted reasons/ comments.
According to your post there were no comments. THIS IS ABSOLUTELY FALSE !!
The proposal is not even written as I submitted it .And therefore is not submitted for discussion correctly.

I attempted to submit this same proposal the last time rules were up for a change and was rebuffed then by the same guy.

BUT... here is the real kicker... I actually submitted this proposal to "TWO" different breed association reps after all the problems I was having trying to get the first one to accept it..
You see I belong to Black and Tan Assoc and BBOA.
It seems to me these guys are not doing their jobs as they are supposed to be doing them.

I am ticked/upset big time that as written it is most likely be shoved aside until the next time again without discussion or merits.

Below I have copied and pasted from my original E-mails that was sent to my breed associate(s) and as submitted .My proposal.
DOES IT look any thing like what I submitted or that no comments were written as to why I felt the rule should be changed??? I don't think so !!!

[QUOTE]
#3 This is a proposal of mine. Currently the rules state any questions should be noted at the time of scoring.

I would like to see this changed to "Any questions pertaining to a scoring situation may be accepted prior to release of dogs for the next recasting ."

My reason for this...I have personally experienced and seen Hunting judges mis-apply points ,everyone hops in trucks and realize driving down road or at the next turn out that it was scored wrong.Well the way the rules are there is nothing you can do about it even though you know it was wrong and you can't make them put a question on the card.
This will give a little bit of a time to think especially on fast moving situations.Not everyone asks to see the scorecard before moving and trusts the judge to put it on the card correctly. Don't always happen that way.[QUOTE]

Straight forward and simple enough. Why, oh, why was it changed and not submitted as written ???

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Kenneth Tavares
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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: 1322 Ginger Trl Manning, S.C. 29102
Posts: 2885

PROPOSAL 18: UKC made it easier for clubs to come up with an event official when they implemented the Hunt Director option. Yes, it gets boring to some to have to sit at the clubhouse with little to no action while everyone else is gone for several hours. Allowing the HD to handle a dog would, in some cases, add another entry for the club. Possibly another guide. Possibly another judge. Those are good pros.
The cons? What about the guy who is waiting at the clubhouse with a legitimate question related to a scratching offense? Is anyone going to be able to get their hunt time in and the opportunity for a cast win when that happens? The simple answer is; it hardly ever happens. But maybe thereís a reasonable way to combat these cons? Decisions are made by weighing the pros and cons. This is one of those.


Cons? If there is a hunt director at the club wouldnít he still need to get a panel? It seems to me if there is a scratchable offense you will need a panel in the Hunt Director format.

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1114

Ken the way it is now the HD can't answer any questions anyway without a panel. You just need three able and willing panel members.
HD at some clubs don't even coon hunt. Just there in name for the paper work.
So whether HD is out hunting or at the club .Only difference is one more guy at club that knows rules and can serve on a panel if a question comes in the middle of hunt.

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IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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high ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 2989

Some awesome proposals.

1. LOVE THE SQUALL AS SOON AS YOU GET TO TREE
2. LOVE TREE COUNTDOWN
3. LOVE VOTING ON BABBLING
4. LOVE IDEA OF SILENT MOUTH HUNTING
5. LET HD HUNT
6. MUST SEE THEM FIGHT
7. DO AWAY WITH SCRATCHING IF CARD NOT FILLED OUT,IF VERIFIED

If we do the above the KC will gain hunters like never imagined. Be huge crossover.

Do what you want on the rest

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Nathan Phenix
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 277

Babbling
1. Yes on A. Why not minus babbler and have rules in there favor

Tree Countdown
2. Yes on A

Recast
4. Yes on A. Not saw problem with current rule tho

Leash Locked
5. Yes on B

17. Yes

18.Yes

I believe lot these rules I didnt mention will but favor in season groundsman and dog train and really set odds against new and young hunters trying night hunts.

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JiM
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Location: New Paris, Indiana
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I seriously wish UKC would put about a 10 year moratorium on any further rule changes. Let these guys learn the rules we got instead of throwing more new ones at them.

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mike fleming
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I think the Breed Assoc.should let the members vote on the proposals instead of one person vote his opinion for the whole breed assoc

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Chase214
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Holly ridge nc
Posts: 82

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I seriously wish UKC would put about a 10 year moratorium on any further rule changes. Let these guys learn the rules we got instead of throwing more new ones at them.

What he said.

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Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 261

It took me a long time to learn the rules. If everyone would spend their time learning the ones we have instead of changing them, it would make for much more enjoyable casts. I say leave them alone. None of the rule changes that I saw proposed will help make the better dog win a cast. They will only confuse the people that do know them.

Last edited by Lance Laymon on 05-09-2019 at 11:49 AM

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Lance Laymon
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 261

The only rule that would help casts run smoother and the best dog that night win is if everyone on a cast had to know the rules.
I used to like to judge a cast, because at least I knew the rules would be used correctly. But I spent most of my time having to explain what a rule was to everyone and how it works, so I could apply it without an argument. It gets old real quick.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 8741

quote:
Originally posted by JiM
I seriously wish UKC would put about a 10 year moratorium on any further rule changes. Let these guys learn the rules we got instead of throwing more new ones at them.



And some of us been hunting under 3 different kcs rules for a long time. Itís kinda like do you just still want to ride the teeter totter or get on the roller coaster !!


Just sayen

Tar

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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1894

quote:
Originally posted by mike fleming
I think the Breed Assoc.should let the members vote on the proposals instead of one person vote his opinion for the whole breed assoc


That would be scary, I wish ukc would take over the rules

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Robert Johnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 3812

RULE CHANGES

It seems that almost every rule change is wanted by someone who is hunting a dog that changing a rule would benefit them at the time they are hunting said dog. Forward about 3 years and they aren't hunting fido anymore, its now sam. Now they want to change the same rule again to fit sam. I agree that the rules should be frozen as are, no more changing to fit, and maybe some of the ones who never had a rule book will buy one and learn something from it.

Hunt Director is a simple UKC fix. That's format change, and Allen can fix it anytime he wishes. MY WISH is he would say no more hunt director. That has been the biggest joke in recent history. There have been more complaints and rule violations since its inception than ever before. WHY? Those same no rule learning folks can be that hunt director, armed with a panel that's worse yet. IT IS A JOKE!! If we are allowing a director, let them hunt.

Now lets forward ourselves to the real world of coon hunting for a few lines here. Rule changes are not needed. We should take the rules from 4-5 registries to the woods with us, look for and find a rule in one of those books that's fits our cause, and use that rule. Yes, I am joking, but it is being done to a large degree already, without carrying the books of course. Heck, the hunt director came from them other KC's books. Maybe we are using them officially huh?

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Rester
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2016
Location: Saucier MS
Posts: 33

Babblers. Give em there three minutes. U will automatically no the babblers. They at ever hunt ya go to worse than I have ever seen and get away with it call it carry n a track out. Scratch em put em n the truck. If they werenít babbling they would strike em immediately. This rule for sure should be dealt with immediantly

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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1596

A couple that jump out at me.
Silent dogs have been a waste of space on the rules.
HD - let um hunt
Babblers are a big issue and anything that is changed or not
Changed will make unhappy people. Same goes for tree count down or any change with the tree. Unhappy people either way.

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millerthehound
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2010
Location: Ekron, Ky
Posts: 101

Babblers

So for me babbling is very hard to prove unless 1. you can smell the track he is or isn't running 2. You can see him running with his head up (even that can be questioned as some dogs can run tracks with their nose in the air and not the ground) 3. most people are going to vote yes to minus a dog unless the dog is theirs. I personally like the AKC rule in strike because it takes the point gap away from the babbler. Rule changes are inevitable especially with so many different KC's out there. Allowing a few select people to vote on the rules to me is not really fair as there opinion is going to trump mine and since they can vote and I cant the rules get changed. I like the idea in a previous post about allowing Breed Members to vote on the rules and the breed representatives to present our overall votes for each rule change. That's my 2 cents.

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Allen / UKC
Administrator

Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 8561

quote:
Originally posted by mike fleming
I think the Breed Assoc.should let the members vote on the proposals instead of one person vote his opinion for the whole breed assoc


Mike, no worries. At the end of the day, the individuals marking the official ballot should reflect the opinions of their membership. That's the way it's supposed to work.

That said, don't be one of those members who will not take the time to reach out to their association and give their opinion. But after the fact sit back on their keyboards and throw rocks at them. If you're not a member of your breed's Chartered Association, you should be. This is just one of those many good reasons to be.

It's also important to remind those posting their opinions here or on any other open forum; any individual posting your opinion here is not going to be considered or used by the associations. You need to get your opinion directly to them.

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