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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Joe what we have here is a failure to communicate lol. We are now dealing with the bling , bling factore with ukc you hunt 2 hrs you don't have plus points your out you have two other organizations that you ( could) win a lot of money without treeing a coon you can't minuse out if you got 800 minuse and everybody has more your still the winner who ever came up with that was brilliant they are getting rich off of it because they give you several ways to win there is always a winner. Now we remember when you filled with cast winners first and filled out through tenth place with non cast winners with plus points it gave people a chance to win somthing numbers were huge I said it before but it's fell on deaf ears that hurt the clubs more than anything else. As far as some of the breed members that voted I was not confratable of who they were and if their intentions were genuine jmo.

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Old Post 03-28-2017 01:31 PM
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Oak Ridge
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Joe what we have here is a failure to communicate lol. We are now dealing with the bling , bling factore with ukc you hunt 2 hrs you don't have plus points your out you have two other organizations that you ( could) win a lot of money without treeing a coon you can't minuse out if you got 800 minuse and everybody has more your still the winner who ever came up with that was brilliant they are getting rich off of it because they give you several ways to win there is always a winner. Now we remember when you filled with cast winners first and filled out through tenth place with non cast winners with plus points it gave people a chance to win somthing numbers were huge I said it before but it's fell on deaf ears that hurt the clubs more than anything else. As far as some of the breed members that voted I was not confratable of who they were and if their intentions were genuine jmo.


I hear you LOUD AND CLEAR.

But let's look at history. My first UKC Wild Coon hunt had 109 registered dogs, and they also held a "grade" hunt at that club that night. I tell you that to illustrate that I'm a fat old man that has "been there, done that".

That first hunt that I was in was a three hour hunt, and still had the 400 minus rule, and it separated the good dogs from the mediocre ones. I myself have often questioned the "minus out" rule, but I also remember the days when making a dog a Nite Champion was a rarity and not a given assumption if you attended enough hunts.

So what changed? I believe WE changed. As the popularity of the UKC model grew, more clubs sprung up. Clubs could survive and flourish, buy ground, build buildings and maintain themselves on the earnings from the UKC hunts. Then more clubs meant more hunts.....since there were more hunts, the entries were divided and the number of dogs at any one club went down. The same number of dogs were entered in more hunts.

Then "the others" started sanctioning hunts for money on every night of the week except Sunday. We further divided our entry numbers, because if you hunted for "bling" on Monday and Thursday evening, you were less likely to hunt on Saturday night for a trophy and a win slip. The trade off is that the club didn't make money on those hunts, so they continue to hold the UKC hunts that started the club, and are indeed the life blood of those clubs.

Now we expect a pot of gold at the end of the cast at UKC hunts...but you know where that pot of gold comes from? From the clubs. When that club has a slam event the club gives back to the entrants, who most likely are not even club members any more, because it is not fashionable to be a club member.

In the next couple of week we are going to have Cur days in Northern Indiana. The club that is hosting that event has gone out of their way to make sure that it is a success....as it should be. They raised a thousand dollars ($1,000) to give away as an "added purse" which is well withing UKC rules. Every coon hunting club in the country has the same option to do just that to build entries, and attract people to the event. UKC didn't do that, the club did.....

My point is that we, and I include myself in that we, are quick to blame UKC for a lot of things, when in reality we are the answer to the problem. If we roll up our sleeves and put forth the effort to find the answers, they are already there...we just don't take advantage of them.

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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

.

Joe, I don't think anyone is blaming UKC. My original post wasn't intended to blame UKC. It was just amazing to me how you can take the squirrel program and put things that are needed in place but on the coonhound side of things all we hear is the Breed Associations don't agree to make any improvements so nothing happens.

You are setting up how UKC will run the programs and was asking for state, breed and national organizations to get on board and help.
Thats is how it should work.

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Old Post 03-28-2017 02:40 PM
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Oak Ridge
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6168

Bruce,

I took no issue with your post. But there are others that have responded that are quick to believe that it is UKC's responsibility to somehow alter things that are not in their wheel house to change......

It's a society things...we are so used to the "government" should do this, and they should do that.... Now we all think that UKC should somehow cater to the individual likes and dislikes....

The reality is that everyone that is a member of a breed association has a vote, the clubs have options, but maybe don't have members. And until we as individuals get involved in doing something more than just paying an entry fee and then griping about the outcome....not much is going to change.

The only real difference between the squirrel program and the coon program is that in the squirrel program, I am the breed association(s) at this point...... I am looking to set those up in the same model as the hound program.

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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

Make no mistake it is absolutely 100% in UKCs hands how rule changes get voted on.
I believe as with the government EVERYONE should have the opportunity to vote and their vote matter. Not the few that are in some association.
UKC should cater to what the MAJORITY likes or dislikes.
Clubs DO have options and sometimes not enough interest or help to execute them properly, however if I were a company such as UKC selling a product I'd make certain I offered new or modified services that the consumer wanted, especially if my programs were shrinking..

Last edited by H.W. Moore on 03-28-2017 at 04:33 PM

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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Joe, I don't think anyone is blaming UKC. My original post wasn't intended to blame UKC. It was just amazing to me how you can take the squirrel program and put things that are needed in place but on the coonhound side of things all we hear is the Breed Associations don't agree to make any improvements so nothing happens.

You are setting up how UKC will run the programs and was asking for state, breed and national organizations to get on board and help.
Thats is how it should work.



When that program grows and gets all the associations involved its going to have the same issues. Right now they have someone making that knows what they are doing and does not have there hands tied by other groups input. When you involve as many people as UKC has to make rule changes and such its like dealing with our goverment, nothing ever gets done.

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Old Post 03-28-2017 04:49 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

quote:
Originally posted by Oak Ridge
Bruce,

I took no issue with your post. But there are others that have responded that are quick to believe that it is UKC's responsibility to somehow alter things that are not in their wheel house to change......

It's a society things...we are so used to the "government" should do this, and they should do that.... Now we all think that UKC should somehow cater to the individual likes and dislikes....

The reality is that everyone that is a member of a breed association has a vote, the clubs have options, but maybe don't have members. And until we as individuals get involved in doing something more than just paying an entry fee and then griping about the outcome....not much is going to change.

The only real difference between the squirrel program and the coon program is that in the squirrel program, I am the breed association(s) at this point...... I am looking to set those up in the same model as the hound program.


Yeah, what he said.....

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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

quote:
Originally posted by H.W. Moore
Make no mistake it is absolutely 100% in UKCs hands how rule changes get voted on.
I believe as with the government EVERYONE should have the opportunity to vote and their vote matter. Not the few that are in some association.
UKC should cater to what the MAJORITY likes or dislikes.
Clubs DO have options and sometimes not enough interest or help to execute them properly, however if I were a company such as UKC selling a product I'd make certain I offered new or modified services that the consumer wanted, especially if my programs were shrinking..

If you want your program to succeed set it up where EVERYONE has a vote. I may get a Cur myself, my hounds been a Grand for 2 years now and I like em to much to get another..

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Old Post 03-28-2017 05:16 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Is the problem the rules we have or the way the rules get implemented. Do we need to change the rules or change the people that are implementing/judging/using them?

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Old Post 03-28-2017 05:38 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Tell you were it's gonna go ( it already is ) clubs are starting to hold non sanctioned hunts no papers needed , no membership or charter to pay , more money for the club. Most don't care about titles they want the money use any rules you want to no fees to pay you want to change somthing change it!! If that's what everybody wants its happening. I don't like it but that's the way it's gonna go.

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Old Post 03-28-2017 07:40 PM
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H.W. Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2016
Location: Ark/Miss
Posts: 524

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Tell you were it's gonna go ( it already is ) clubs are starting to hold non sanctioned hunts no papers needed , no membership or charter to pay , more money for the club. Most don't care about titles they want the money use any rules you want to no fees to pay you want to change somthing change it!! If that's what everybody wants its happening. I don't like it but that's the way it's gonna go.
I'm seeing this also. When I go to club hunts it's usually a vote and the guys want Pkc rules 90min hunts. Titles aren't as important now because they're so much easier to obtain

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