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Bob Hennessey
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Registered: Feb 2010
Location: off the res.
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scoring question

3 dog cast . A, B, and C. Dogs catch a coon on the ground. Dogs A and B dogs come back to cast before cast arrived at the coon and were handled. dog C stayed with coon until the cast arrived.

Score the dogs.

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Old Post 08-14-2018 06:29 PM
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gpent24
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when you say came into cast how far did they come in? 10 ft? 50 yds? 100 yds?

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Hoosier Man1
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It's unnatural for a dog to catch a coon on the ground. I mean, it happens but some dogs wont act right after. And you also have to consider the fact that some dogs fight over a dead coon.

Unfortunately, if they come into the cast and are struck in they would get their strike minused. Don't see any other thing you could do. Bad break

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CHEWBACH
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Registered: Jan 2007
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handled

you must have been close enough to know that A and B were there or you would not have handled them !! if so plus all 3 on strike !! in order they were struck !!

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jkidd1
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Mr. Hennessy, I'm gona take another stab at the rules questions.

My answer would be to plus all 3 dogs strike, because only one of them has to show end the trail in that situation?? Also goin on the fact you say they came to cast and were handled, I'm guessing it was a short distance.

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Dogwhisper
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What if it was a possum .... ¿
One dog or all 3 take the hit....¿

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Dave Richards
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Dogwhisper

Minus all 3 dogs if registered cast, scratch if champion cast. Dave

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Richard Lambert
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True story...
I was in a major breed hunt. Four dog cast, all dogs struck and trailing in a cornfield but not together. My dog caught a coon, fought and killed it while other 3 dogs were trailing. Just as we got to her 2 of the dogs came to us. The handler of the third dog who was judgeing ran his down and caught it about 50 yds away. They plussed all 4 dogs strike. I questioned it but MOH said all 4 dogs get plussed strike points.

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Bob Hennessey
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The dogs came about 75 yds. back to cast members and were handled. I wasn't at the hunt was just asked if it was handled right. All three dogs were plussed.

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joey
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quote:
Originally posted by Bob Hennessey
The dogs came about 75 yds. back to cast members and were handled. I wasn't at the hunt was just asked if it was handled right. All three dogs were plussed.


That is something that is going to be up to the judge. At 75 yards on my cast would be way to far.

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Todd_Miller
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were they handled under judges authority or order?? If not scratch and at very least minused

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johnny reb
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Richard in your scenario I can not believe they all got plussed. I can understand the 2 that came in to the coon,but the one that was ran down there's no way

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Richard Lambert
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That is what I thought. My dog caught the coon. Theirs just came in there. But MOH said that it was like a hole. If one dog caught the coon then they all got their strike plussed. I thought that it didn't make any sense.

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joey
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
That is what I thought. My dog caught the coon. Theirs just came in there. But MOH said that it was like a hole. If one dog caught the coon then they all got their strike plussed. I thought that it didn't make any sense.



A lot of people misunderstand the hole rule. It says only one dog has to be showing the hole. That means only one has to have its head in it, barking in it ect...... That doesn't mean the other are allowed to be milling around.

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J.Fox
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You could have 300 people answer your question and probably get 300 different answers. The key to the question is were they dogs A B and C struck in ? Thats they Key question. If yes then dog C with coon takes + on strike and dog A and B are minused. If not struck in then all stay at previous positions.
Had this happen a few times over the years.

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Richard Lambert
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quote:
Originally posted by J.Fox
You could have 300 people answer your question and probably get 300 different answers.....

So, how do you know which answer is the correct one?

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J.Fox
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
So, how do you know which answer is the correct one?



Lol you dont just like in the hunts.

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Bob Hennessey
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I can tell you that this situation cannot be found in the rules or in either advisor. So it would have to be a judgement call. I can tell you that my MOH license # is 127 and this situation has never been brought back to me. This actually happened on a hunt recently and in my opinion it was the right decision because all dogs helped catch the coon and the 2 dogs came right back to the handlers, even though it was a distance. Remember it wasn't a hole, or a tree, they never quit the track because they were there when it ended, also if it would have been off game all 3 dogs would get minus pts, or scratched if honest JUDGEMENT was used. JMO. If you didn't agree with my ruling you can always take it further.

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Richard Lambert
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If a possum is caught and only one dog is there, I can guarantee the other handlers are not going to let you minus or scratch their dogs. They are going to swear that their dog was not there. Can you just imagine a handler running his dog down and dragging him back to a possum?

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Bob Hennessey
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If a possum is caught and only one dog is there, I can guarantee the other handlers are not going to let you minus or scratch their dogs. They are going to swear that their dog was not there. Can you just imagine a handler running his dog down and dragging him back to a possum?

Richard, if you noticed I said HONEST JUDGEMENT. In the example you posted. If I was the MOH I would have minused the dog that had to be run down. Judgement call.
If it was determined that all dogs caught the possum, which shouldn't be that hard, minus or scratch if Ch.
Until people refuse to go along with circling slick trees, calling time out (dogs running junk out of country)and deleting strike pts, adding coons to score, etc. this will never end cast members MUST start to question things that they know are wrong, but nobody wants to be called a whinner, will it ever happen? You tell me. Most of the time anymore the only cast member that come back to the club house is the cast winner.

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johnny reb
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Joey I don't think you could minus dogs if there milling at a hole with one dog showing.

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pttm08
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So I am trying to picture this scenario because I actually had this happen at Grand American 6 years ago. I was fairly new to competition hunting at the time but was chosen to judge.
All 4 dogs cut all opened and were struck. Few minutes later all dogs came back into the cast. I minused all dogs then. I did not wait to see if they killed anything. I did turn out that they caught and killed a possum on the ground. However when they come back to the cast they took minus then.
So I would say the two that came back to the cast ( because 75 yards away you can not tell what happened) are minus and dog C gets his strike.

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J.Fox
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How did a Possum get brought up in this ? The question never said anything about a possum hole or any off game ?? It was a Coon. Lacking was whether all dogs or some were or were not struck in. Like I said ask 300 people you will get 300 different answers.

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joey
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quote:
Originally posted by johnny reb
Joey I don't think you could minus dogs if there milling at a hole with one dog showing.


Its going to be a judgement call on whats to far but the rule was never intended to let dogs just be milling around but that's how its used.

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