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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 3159

Do we really know what our dogs are doing?

There are several different ways we coon hunt. I really think that those who use to hunt 50 years ago or even those today that only pleasure hunt and still hunt Family farms and local places. Know more about what their dogs are doing than the guys today that call themselves successful competition hunters. Back in the late 60's or early 70's we generally went to the same two or three spots to hunt. They were big spots but we started out at the same two or three places. We had several dogs, generally from 2 to 6 depending on how many went. They were more of your pack type hounds and we generally knew which dogs would strike first and which dog would tree first. If they made a loose we enjoyed listening for which dog picked it back up and straightened the track out. The enjoyment was listening to the entire scene as it played out. The dogs were music to our ears. At the end of the night we discussed some of the things that went on during the hunt and what dogs seemed to do what better. All and all we seemed to agree in what happened. Actually we cared about what happened and how the dogs operated, because we were looking to see improvement in those not carrying their weight. On top of knowing the dogs, since we hunted the same areas year long, we tend to know about how the coons would run and where they would go. The varying water levels in the everglades also changed how the coon operated.
Now in todays world, I think most have migrated over to the competition world. If that is what you enjoy. There is pleasure in it for you. But the biggest difference is the handler plays a big part in the outcome of a competition hunt. When we just pleasure hunted. The handler of the dog turned it loose, corrected it if necessary, went to the tree and got the dog. The owner/handler enjoyed all the aspects of the hunt. He enjoyed what the hunt was about. The dogs voice, the dog picking up a loose, the dogs locate and tree mouth.
At the end of the night in a competition hunt, I think the hunt and how it went down is viewed differently by most of the people in the cast. Mainly because it might be the first time they hunted together and in a strange location to them. I am sure the Pleasure Hunter knows more about what actually happened during a hunt than the Competition hunter. The competition hunter is focused on the end result. The highest score at the end of the night on the score card. Sometimes the dog doesn't deserve the score as the handler worked his magic to get it there. Or worked his magic to get some points taken away from another dog. The pleasure is achieved by the handler managing what the dog is doing. While the Pleasure Hunter gets his pleasure just enjoying the time his dog is on the track and tree of that frisky coon.

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Old Post 01-13-2018 01:57 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 13512

The competition handlers that win a lot know exactly what their dog is doing. And those guys that hunt a lot and have their eyes glued to their Garmin know exactly what their dog is doing. Those old pleasure hunters who just listened only thought that they knew what their dog was doing. And some of those good Pro handlers know what your dog is doing better than you do.

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Old Post 01-13-2018 02:07 PM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 6206

Bruce a lot of that comes from most of the competition dogs of today are hunted in the hunts more than they are pleasure hunted. That being said the ones that win the major hunts consistantly that's the only time you see them is at a major hunt the rest of the time they are at home being honed and polished. Back in the day we didn't have that many large hunts we prepared for months for one maybe that's why we had bigger scores and dogs had a better handle on them not passing up coons in an attempt to be deep and alone working the clock. I would hate to think I would have to feed the family during hide season with the some of the dogs of today.



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Old Post 01-13-2018 02:15 PM
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H. L. Meyer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2146

Richard

I agree with your post 100%. If one of the them has ever hunted with your dog in a BIG hunt then YOU better be on your toes because of to things. ONE he knows the rules every which a way and, To after your dog runs a track he knows what to expect from your dog. THEY DON"T WIN BY BEING A CROOK THEY WIN BECAUSE THEY KNOW WHAT IS GOING ON.

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Old Post 01-13-2018 02:28 PM
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H. L. Meyer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2146

yadkintar

You are spot on also they are not wearing this computer out they are in the woods wearing that dog out. PREPARE to win is a great plan so they are in the woods preparing. DUN GOT TO OLD NOW BUT I DO KNOW ABOUT PREPARING TO WIN DON"T YOU.

__________________
SHAWNEE HILL'S BLACK AND TANS

" LIFE IS TOO SHORT "
GRUDGES ARE A WASTE OF PERFECT HAPPINESS
LAUGH WHENEVER YOU CAN,
APOLOGIZE WHEN YOU SHOULD
AND LET GO OF WHAT YOU CANNOT CHANGE.

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Old Post 01-13-2018 02:36 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 3159

.

OK Richard here is an example.

4 dogs are cast. They drive a legit coon track in there 700 yards and have an excellent track to do it with. They are all together. They tree. 3 dogs are treed on a smaller empty tree. One dog is treed 50 yards or so away with a coon but a smaller coon.

1. One guy with his dog treed on empty tree says. The coon jumped out and the other dog treed it.
2. One guy with his dog on the empty tree says. There was a lot of heat on the smaller tree and the other dog moved and found a coon close by.
3. One guys says he really doesn't know but that is a small coon to have run all that ways.
4. The guy whose dog was on the coon says. Yes that is kind of a small coon to have run that ways in front of those dogs but he has seen his dog split many times and it has the coon so it really doesn't matter to him.

All those guys know exactly what their dogs did and your right about that. They just don't actually know what happened and I think a pleasure hunter is more in tune with what actually happened and has the advantage of finding out while the comp hunter leashes them and moves on. If I am pleasure hunting that situation, first thing I do is leash a dog and walk a circle around the empty tree to see is perhaps a sow left out of there or if that small coon was the one they run in there.

Your right the comp hunter knows his dog because he has a responsibility to call his dog for the dogs actions. The Pleasure hunters know his dog but just enjoys what he does. The Comp hunter is not standing there in enjoyment trying to get his dog treed on a hot race with 3 other dog in it. Now if he trees his dog off a beautiful locate or pitches his dog first and gets first tree without getting minus. The handler did his job. He can get some pleasure out of that. But the reality is at the end of the night I feel the pleasure will have a better understand of what truly went on in the woods and what dogs treed first.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 01-13-2018 at 02:44 PM

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Old Post 01-13-2018 02:39 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 13512

A good competition hunter knows exactly what happened because he knows his dog and knows how he reacts with other dogs. He knows how accurate his dog is. He knows when his dog is running a coon and when he is running something else. He knows if he will back other dogs or look all around for another tree when he gets beat on a tree. He knows if his dog will stay or move over when treeing gets rough. A good competition handler has had his dog in every situation, has paid very close attention to every detail and filed it away in his memory. A good competition handler is serious about what he is doing and is focused on his dog. He isn't just out playing around having a good time with his buddies.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 01-13-2018 at 03:41 PM

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Old Post 01-13-2018 03:36 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 3159

.

Richard, I have formed an opinion. lol I think you are trying to get me worked up today. It won't work as the wife already has. I have been told to turn off the computer and go do some work. I am a fast worker so I will see you in a little while.

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Old Post 01-13-2018 04:15 PM
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Ron Jackson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2004
Location: Ohio
Posts: 1002

Being a not so good comp hunter because there is no way I can learn the other dogs in a cast as quick as some can. I do know my dog and how he or she will react in most situations, but not 100% on that either. The only thing I CAN do is call mine the best I can. How many real good handlers as described are hunting the UKC hunts that most of us hunt. By that the small local hunts that are close to us. Most of us do this for fun and not for notoriety. At 59 years old and hunting as much as possible I still like to win a cast but I am not able to do that by knowing the other dogs in the cast. I need to know mine.

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Old Post 01-13-2018 04:47 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 13512

Bruce, my opinion is based on my personal experience of what I have seen. I pleasure hunt a lot. I hunt in UKC hunts with other pleasure hunters quite a bit. I have also hunted in a few PKC hunts against those competition handlers and they know a lot more about what their dog is doing than I do. But it is only my opinion. Everyone needs to enter their dog and actually hunt against a few of those real comp hunters and then form their own opinion.

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Old Post 01-13-2018 05:23 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 3159

.

My original thoughts were not about your knowledge or opinion on what your dog is doing. It is the opinion on what happened when the dogs got turned loose and treed a coon. Another example. Crossing bridge and you see coon down on the waters edge. You see it head north. Dump dogs and they go south. They tree a coon. If you had not seen the coon head north your opinion-would have been they treed the coon you saw and dumped on. Actually they treed another one.

This leads to where my thoughts on hunting and breeding start to blend together and differ from others. Yes i am different. Its been a plague my whole life lol. I am results oriented. I give credit for positive results if they are earned without hanky panky. I give credit for someone breeding a good coondog no matter what color it is and what breed it is. Doesnt mean i perfer that breed but i am results oriented and give credit honestly.

As far as hunting I have two desires. To turn my dogs loose and they do nothing that would earn them minus points. The second is when they tree they have the coon. Minus or circle wont cut it. Most circles are an excuse. For minus.

When breeding, you have to also call it like it is, if your dealing with performance dogs. If your selling lap dogs they are purchased, loved and can do no wrong. Threat the people well and your the best breeder out there. We have went that way with our hounds. Way to many are bred to meet a pedigree standard and match up uncles and cousins. I want mine to meet coon hound standards. If they dont I will load the gun for you.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 01-13-2018 at 06:01 PM

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Old Post 01-13-2018 05:58 PM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 6206

Bruce I will not walk to a dog that I see very many coons setting up behind and if I walk to many trees that I don't see a coon they can't live here.



Tar

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Old Post 01-13-2018 07:58 PM
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dean jamerson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2006
Location: Pamplin Va.
Posts: 415

Is it competion hunter vs. pleasure hunter or is it houndsman vs. non houndsman.

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Old Post 01-14-2018 06:25 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 964

IMO and i know there will be some to argue over it but, you shouldn't think of your dog as a straight coondog. I've seen dogs that the owner thinks its trying to figure out this rough old feeder track and its bumping on a old grey fox track. You should be honest with yourself about your dog. I look at this way I think my dgs are running junk until proven otherwise. So until the dog trees I figure it ran deer, fox, coyote, bobcat or porcupine until I find the coon in the tree. But I assure you some guys have no clue what their dog is really doing. I've walked a bunch of ground to cut tracks in snow to find out what the dogs are running. And most times when a dog is boo hooing around and not moving the track very far, its not a coon. Most guys know when their dog takes off on a deer because its fast. But not many know what to look for with other off game.

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Old Post 01-14-2018 06:52 PM
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trsizemore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location:
Posts: 271

those old pleasure hunters

I among one of those and I can tell you exactly what my dog is doing and most of the time what your new style dog is doing mine trees coon as the come to them yours run off game till they get to a coon

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Old Post 01-14-2018 07:29 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 964

Mine will bump junk won't lie on that but if you don't think yours does then start cutting tracks bud. You'll have an eye opener.

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Old Post 01-14-2018 07:44 PM
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trsizemore
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location:
Posts: 271

day time

no junk here I have coon dogs hunt in the day and night

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Old Post 01-15-2018 01:54 AM
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trsizemore
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Registered: Jun 2014
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day time

no junk here I have coon dogs hunt in the day and night

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Old Post 01-15-2018 01:54 AM
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trsizemore
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Registered: Jun 2014
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no junk here

I hunt day and night when mine open its a coon

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Old Post 01-15-2018 01:55 AM
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Bob Hennessey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2010
Location: minnesota
Posts: 2840

Do we really know what our dogs are doing?
13 below zero later tonight mine are burrowing down into the hay in their dog house. It's what they have been doing for the last 3 weeks been below about every night.

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