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elvis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4112

Re: Psycho Susie female

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Starke
Got rid of mine. Took $500 to have the vet sew up and take care of the infection she did to my old dog. 22 bite marks in her head and throat. Couldn't give me another Bellar dog. Heard lots of stories about them being mean. Thought I'd try one. Had to learn the hard way. I no longer think the rumors are just rumors. You might get a good one once in awhile, but my experience tells me they are by and large mean dogs.

Good Hunting,
Robert

sorry you had a bad one. i hope you destroyed her.
if your experience is limited to one dog, i would hope you wouldnt judge the whole line by one bad apple.
as far as rumors go, we hope they continue. the only way to stop them is to quit winning.

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11-22-2011 02:06 AM

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dperry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 623

Re: Lipper

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Starke
Lipper was one of the best looking hounds. He was the real deal. JMO

Good Hunting,
Robert

Good golly Robert, you must have had one of the few. Too much trailing to suit this Yankee. And that bawling on the tree, just not for me.

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11-22-2011 05:03 AM

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Hopkins/Lipper
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Sunnyvale Texas
Posts: 784

Re: Re: Lipper

quote:
Originally posted by dperry
Good golly Robert, you must have had one of the few. Too much trailing to suit this Yankee. And that bawling on the tree, just not for me.

That is better known among coonhunters as track driving drown out tree power ! And, there were more than just a few... LOL

Tom Hopkins
Hopkins/Lipper

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11-22-2011 06:57 AM

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dperry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2007
Location:
Posts: 623

Tom, I am not drinking the Kool Aid today. There would be nothing greater than you to prove the comeback is real with a nite champion or 2 from the litter of impact. Should be easy.

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11-22-2011 12:26 PM

John Carroll
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Talala, Oklahoma
Posts: 5208

I owned a son of Pac Man back in the day.

He was some different than the Blue dogs I had been used to.

Powerhouse track dog, hard going, about medium nosed.

He was wired all the time.

Extremely trashy, and was hard to break.

He wanted to get a little aggressive when he first started liking to tree, but I was able to correct it before it got to be a rooted behavior.

He was a nice dog, but I didn't care for his personality and nature.

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11-22-2011 03:29 PM

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Robert Starke
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1728

Lipper dogs

Hi,

Didnt want to start a vendetta. Just stating facts. I crossed a linebred Finley River Dan 3 female to Lipper that produced track dogs that ran tracks other dogs could not smell but followed them several hundred yards behind and finally made it to the tree and still couldn't smell the coon. Coon was there every time. They were so fast everybody thought they were running off game only to hear them come treed and stay treed. Caught several coons on the ground. They were accurate tree dogs . Never had a dog like them before. Still linebreeding them today.
Tom, I still have that same Finley River blood crossed on Lipper. If you want to put that Lipper semen to good use, I have the right track driving hard treedog to use it on that is a proven reproducer.
Lipper was a beautiful hound that Raymond Lasseter, Lonnie Mears, others and myself couldn't beat at King of the World in Green Forrest, ARK. My Radar dog won the World Show 2 years later. World class hounds there that day. Dual purpose hounds have always been my goal. Lipper was one. Too bad he had so many counterfeit females bred to him. Money was the goal, not a good balanced dual purpose hound. JMO

Good Hunting,
Robert

__________________
Gr. Ch. UKC 1st place win Finley River Zig HTX
Gr Ch Starke's Finley River Trap 2015 6th Annual Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Hunt and Show Ch female Overall female and Opposite Sex winner

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Wild Bill's Lill 21.05% reproduction record
Starke's Finley River Little Lill
Dual Gr. Ch. Wild Bill's Queen UKC RQE 112 winner 725+ 2006 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Rattler 2
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sadie
Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch.TrackMan's Stone Cold HTX 2009 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2009 UKC World Hunt Zone 5 Hunt 14th place 2011 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Dual Ch. PKC Ch.Track Man's Mad Dash 2007 PKC SS qualifier 2008 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club Final Hunt winner 2012 MCHF Youth State Championship 2nd place 2012 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year
Gr. Ch. Finley River Cadillac Jane 2006 PKC Walker Days BOSF 2006 UKC RQE 74 Ch winner 2006 Trackman Invitational Queen of Show 2007 MCHF State Hunt Ch. female winner
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Cozi
Gr Nt Ch Starke's Finley River Super Man HTX 2017 Mid Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF Dick Gray Memorial Hunt High Scoring Dog and King of the Hunt 2018 Mid-Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF State Final Hunt the only double cast winner Final Four 3rd place winner 2019 BBCHA Sectional Madison, MO Gr Nt Ch/ Nt Ch Cast winner and High Scoring dog 2019 BBOA Richard Casey Tribute Hunt High Scoring Dog 750+ Thursday night and 825+ Friday night 2019 MCHF State Final Hunt Final Four 2nd place winner 2020 UKC World Hunt Qualifier at Marshall, MO March 21st

Dual Gr Ch Wild Bill's April 2016 UKC RQE 97 Ch winner

Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Jane 2006 UKC RQE 74 Gr Ch winner
Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Sugar 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Ch of Ch winner
Starke's Finley River Jake
Hoghill's Finley River Rip
Hoghill's Finley River Candie

Starke's Finley River Stubbie
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Tuff
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Starke's Finley River Ramblin Bat Man

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Starke"s Finley River Ramblin John Henry
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Dan
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sister
Starke's Finley River Diamond
Starke's Finley River General Robert E Lee

Starke's Finley River Stormy
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PKC Gold Ch Gr Nt Ch Snitch, mother of Batman

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Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sugar Boy
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Randi
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Little Emma

Gr.Ch. Starke's Table Rock Jewell 2007 RQE 5 BOSF winner 2007 MCHF State Hunt BOSF winner 2009 RQE 28 Best of Show female winner 2009 MCHF State Hunt Ch of Ch Female winner 2010 MCHF State Hunt Gr Ch winner and Queen of Show 2010 Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Queen of Show 2011 Gr Ch Louisiana State Championship 2012 NE Missouri Black & Tan Sectional Gr. Ch. female 2012 MCHF Spring Classic Gr Ch female 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch winner 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr Ch winner 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2012 UKC Current Top 10 2012 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year

Gr Ch Little Walnut Queen Bathsheba 2011 SWTWA BFOS and Queen of Show 2011 MCHA State Hunt BFOS 2011 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show BFOS 2012 MCHF State Hunt Ch Female and Queen of Show 2012 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show Ch. Female 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 TWB&F Walker Days Gr. Ch. female and Queen of Show 2013 Kentucky State Championship Gr. Ch. female and Opposite Sex winner 2013 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 ACHA World Hunt and Show BFOS 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 Lee Crawford Invitaional qualifier
Gr Ch Little Walnut Zipporah

Gr Ch A & B Preacher 2012 Saluda Days King of Show 2013 MCHF State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2013 MO Governor's Cup State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2014 RQE #11 Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 SWTWA Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2014 Kansas State Championship Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 UKC's Top 10 List 2014 Purina's Bench Show Top Ten List 2014 MCHF Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 MCHF Summer Classic King of Show 2014 MCHF State Hunt and Show GR. Ch. Winner Friday 2014 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year 2015 Purina Nationals qualifier 2015 Kansas State Championship Friday Gr Ch winner 2016 Purina Nationals qualifier

Gr Ch Table Rock Reverend Mundo Hawk 2010 MCHF State Hunt Best Male of Show 2011 MCHF Spring Classic Gr. Ch. male and King of Show 2011 UKC RQE 88 Gr Ch male 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch male 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr. Ch. male and King Of Show 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. male 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier

"Fast is Good. Accuracy is Everything." Wyatt Earp

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11-22-2011 09:15 PM

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Robert Starke
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1728

What's Up Doc x Psycho Susie

Never have I seen such an unprovoked mean dog. If this is an example of how vicious the females are, I would hate to see what a male dog would be like. I'm glad yours is ez going. Congratulations. I will never own another Bellar dog.

Good Hunting,
Robert

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12-02-2011 04:40 PM

plentyofpossum
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2011
Location:
Posts: 386

Best hound I ever owned had pac blood. If I ever went back to a hound I would be looking for some more pac blood. Great stuff and not ill at all.

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12-02-2011 06:29 PM

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travelman01
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2009
Location: tennessee
Posts: 245

dogs

weather its pac or lipper or old blue ya got to admit there is a lot of jealousy amongst us coonhunters would have been nice to have seen pac and lipper draw each other to see the out come but like mr. hopkins i would like to see russ cut loose of some of pac that he has stored then you could take the best off of both and draw them together. best of luck to both. but if it happens i would like to find the best blue dog i could and throw it in the hunt. thanks for two cents worth

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12-02-2011 07:24 PM

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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

Bellar Hounds

I'm not an authority on Mr. Bellar's line of dogs, but I have trained 5 from one litter of Psycho and one from another Psycho litter and raised a litter of pups from one of his stud dogs in the last 3 years. There was one ill dog at the tree and only if she is moved off her spot at the tree. I got her after she was started and do not know what may have been done to her before I got her. The rest were not ill.
I have zero tolerance for aggressive behavior. I HAVE ZERO TOLERANCE FOR AGGRESSIVE BEHAVIOR! I have broke two dogs from being aggressive in my 62 years of hunting. Both in the last 10 years and both did not have Bellar breeding. I will never break another one. Both had alot of the same ancestors as Doc's dam.
What is very evident here is that Mr. Starke's dog is not giving credit to the ancestors of his dog. I believe that there is Lipper, Bozo, Hickory Nut Harry, and Sackett Junior behind the Doc up close and would make the point that the aggressive behavior may have came down through Doc's dam lineage.

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12-03-2011 12:14 AM

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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

Re: What's Up Doc x Psycho Susie

quote:
Originally posted by Robert Starke
Never have I seen such an unprovoked mean dog. If this is an example of how vicious the females are, I would hate to see what a male dog would be like. I'm glad yours is ez going. Congratulations. I will never own another Bellar dog.

Good Hunting,
Robert

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12-03-2011 12:34 AM

Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

Aggressive Dogs

Mr. Starke made a broad generalization about Bellar dogs based on one dog.

I've hunted with and owned several "show bred" dogs and if I am also entitled to make a broad statement it would be that most 'show' bred dogs from National Champions are aggressive.
How many times have you seen dogs at a show up on their toes and if it were not for them being restrained by a leash they would be locked up and rolling with another dog? The judges seem to ignore the trait and often give them the show. Aggressiveness does not genetically skip a generation. If you have a genetically aggressive dog then either its mother or father should have been spaded instead of bred. This is my opinion!
Good luck with you dogs, life is short, enjoy the best and cull the rest.

When the neighbors male dog comes visiting he never looks better than when he is looking for a fight!

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12-03-2011 12:57 AM

Robert Starke
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1728

Agressive dogs

Hi,

I have never had to get rid of a mean dog. Always owned Finley River dogs for 30 years. Never had a mean one. They are docile. As I stated, I have heard rumors about Bellar dogs being mean, aggressive tree dogs. Giving you information about the one I bought and paid for. Are you saying that Psycho Susie or What's Up Doc should be neutered? Doc's dead so that only leaves Susie. Is it coming from her? Your guess is as good as mine. I asked about her littermates. Didn't get but one response. I respect your right to express your opinion. That is what keeps us free.

Good Hunting,
Robert

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12-03-2011 06:19 PM

Mark Antrim
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2005
Location: Gaston, IN
Posts: 190

Pac-man

I had one of the females that was out of Doc and Suzie, sold her when she was alittle over a year old. She was not mean at all. To say the that the mean dogs are coming from Pac-man is a hard thing to say since if I'm correct he shows up maybe in the 4th generation on this cross. There was alot of females in that pedigree that aren't Pac-man bred. All of my dogs have Pac-man in them, one of them even shows Pac-man 3 times in 3 generations, and that is the one I hunt my young dogs with. Just like Elvis said its hard to base your opinion off one dog. Not going to say I have never seen a mean Pac-man bred dog but I have seen just as many Sackett, Nailor, Lipper bred that are mean too.

Last edited by Mark Antrim on 12-05-2011 at 11:29 PM

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12-04-2011 02:26 PM

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Walker9615
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2010
Location:
Posts: 593

Mean dogs

Never really hunted with any pacman dogs but I've seen some alligators outta jr an Clint not aggressive anywhere but on the tree.

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12-05-2011 02:10 AM

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Kler Kry
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 744

Pacman Dogs

I bought a pup last September that is a grandson of Psycho and goes back to Pacman eight times in six generations. He is about as straight Bellar bred you could get. He started treeing at 5 months. I don't believe in pushing a pup. At 12 months old and 4 coon kills he was a first strike dog, first tree dog and pressure treedog. I accidentially hunted him with two different aggressive treedogs recently and he stayed away from them and didn't offer to fight back, but stayed treed under pressure. This is one of the best pups that I've ever seen.
I have bought one or two highly advertised pups each year for close to 39 years and worked them. Most were culled. I have zero tollerance for an aggressive dog and I had heard rumors that
Bellar's dogs were aggressive so I never tried any. This was one of the biggest mistakes that I ever made. I really like the Psycho dogs.

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12-06-2011 07:53 PM

Tardawg
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Faribault, Minnesota
Posts: 838

I have a young female directly out of Psycho. She is two year old, shows no signs of aggression. Does show TONS of Talent, been treeing her own coon for over a year now. I have not seen a more ACCURATE TREE DOG in some time. She is a very nice female. P.S. you may be hearing about her soon.

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12-07-2011 01:10 PM

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Robert Starke
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1728

Bellar Dogs

Hi,

I never said Bellar dogs are not talented. I never singled out Pac Man. I did say I have heard numerous stories about them being mean. The first one I bought turned out to be "psycho."As I said in an earlier post, if you have an ez going one, congratulations.

Good Hunting,
Robert

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12-08-2011 09:16 PM

Nelson Kirkland
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Chicago, IL
Posts: 232

quote:
Originally posted by Tardawg
I have a young female directly out of Psycho. She is two year old, shows no signs of aggression. Does show TONS of Talent, been treeing her own coon for over a year now. I have not seen a more ACCURATE TREE DOG in some time. She is a very nice female. P.S. you may be hearing about her soon.

I have heard of her.

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12-08-2011 11:47 PM

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toe cutter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2008
Location: chokeabitch river, michigan
Posts: 969

i drew pacman on the final cast of a 2 night ucha money hunt in the 80's. a black and tan was carried out of the woods friday night with claims that pacman worked the dog over pretty good on the tree. with pacman rumored to already having been scratched 2 times in ukc and the hoopla friday night, they put 3 judges on us on the final cast with one judge wearing tennis shoes and carring a 2 cell handheld flash light.
i had a big ole lemon colored walker and he was no easy task for any dog to move off a tree. first tree the hell bent to scratch judge put his tennis shoes to work and darted into the darkness. the tree was no bigger then my leg and although both dogs ,mine and pacman had some blood trickling here and there, they appeared they were perfect angles. they treed together a few times in the cast.
i won't say pacman was ill, but he was light broke. no matter how big or small the light was.

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12-09-2011 02:31 AM

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edwardfasteddy
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2011
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Does anyone know where Judy Meyers lives now?

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12-27-2011 05:20 PM

david hall
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2006
Location: Hatfield Indiana
Posts: 386

Fella's I Seen the Pac Man Dog In Action In 86 While Guiding a Pro Hunt Cast In $kc While Dave Juvers Handled Him, I would Have to Say He was A Hard Hunting Loud Impressive Tree Dog BUT I Have to Say that He Was an ALLIGATOR, THAT WAS LIGHT BROKE AND VOICE BROKE, The Judge Tried All Night to Catch Him But was Unsuccesful, When He would Come In and Cover at the tree all He!! would break loose, IM NOT TALKING BLOWING, it didnt matter male or female they were all bleeding when we got in there and the others treed together all night not a problem, Some how Every time The Crap would Start a Light would Flash that Direction or the Handler would Speak Loud and OLD PAC MAN TREED LIKE AND ANGEL, I was 18 yrs Old 3 days later i was offered a Pup, I told The Guy give the pup to someone else, I was Not Interested,

Im Not Saying He reproduced That This Is Just My Experience with PAC MAN

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12-28-2011 03:39 AM

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edwardfasteddy
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Registered: Dec 2011
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Posts: 805

I don't know about how or about that but it sounds like there was a few other alligators in there, and Pac was just holding his ground. What for dogs do you have ? Tell me what the bloodlines are other then that Casey Dog. Pac did win that cast didn't he? Back in the day I would like to take Pac-Man by his self and count coon night after night with any other three dogs hunting the same way, I think I would put my money on Old Pac. The way UKC does the rules don't mean that is the way you check a dog out, that dog was a dog! I'm not saying the dog was perfect or the guy that owned him either. I'm just saying that I doubt you ever owned a dog that was in the same calibre as that dog. NOT A SMART ANSWER JUST THE FACTS.

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12-28-2011 09:24 AM