Registered: Apr 2019
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 19

In a youth hunt a non hunting judge is used. Youth A’s dog is treed see the coon in a neighboring tree. Trees have a limb almost the size of a baseball bat touching each other judge says it’s not big enough for a coon to cross youth A tries to question it. Judge blows him off says he is minus’d. So youth A says should at least be a circle because the tree is full of vines and there could be one hidden behind the vines. Judge says I can tell you that there is not one because he used a heat detection scope. Youth A says those aren’t legal judge responds with I’m a non hunting judge so I can use one. Youth A still preceded to want to question the score card judge blows him off. Judge tells him to sign the score card youth A refuses then the judge says you have to or you will be written up by ukc even though judge refused to put question on the score card. Judge then has youth B sign the card no where near youth A judge then gives the score card to youth B to return to the club house and judge never comes back to club house. Youth A was winning till the minus on the tree gabe youth B the win. What would be the correct way for youth A to handle this

Last edited by Liberty Hill19 on 03-28-2021 at 01:32 PM

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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 422

First, I am so sorry for the youth having such a bad experience. I have three kids that like to hunt and I have taken them to numerous youth hunts through the years. They have had a nice experience on several of the hunts, but not so good on other ones. The problem with youth hunts is the adults. Parents want their kid to win more than the kid. The youth is just there to have a good time, but they are either helped by the parent or yelled at for what they did wrong. It is like that in every youth sport. Adults have a hard time not trying to help their child compete.
The other issue I see is that most of the club that have youth hunts don't have enough capable members to help host and judge the event. Which means you get poorly run casts with the local kid sometimes getting an unfair advantage.
I just try to teach my kids to enjoy the event and win or lose have a good time. Kids need to learn to win and lose. It is hard to lose when the cast isn't judged properly or a parent gives an unfair advantage, but life isn't always fair. In the scope of our lives winning or losing a cast shouldn't make a difference in who we are or how we live our life. If it does you haven't lived a very meaningful life.
You have two ways to handle this, call every one a cheater question the call and make the experience no fun for anyone. Maybe the MOHs will change the judges call and your youth will win. Probably not and the only thing you are teaching your kid is to think every time they lose they were cheated. Or you can have a conversation with your child about winning and losing and make it a life lesson. I would let the club know either way that the judge in your cast did a poor job.
Better luck next cast.

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Registered: Apr 2019
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 19

Thanks for the insight it’s not the winning the event that matters to my son it’s the cast win for the dog the dog performed the way he should have and doesn’t get the cast win he deserves. My kids hunt in both youth and regular hunts against adults so they know how crooked it can be the judge was just a member of the club and had no relationship with any cast members. Was just wondering what the correct route would be for the youth to take if a judge refuses to put a question on a card then threatens the youth with a write up if they don’t sign the card. The other problem is that the judge was to cowardly to return to the club house knowing there was a dispute.

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Registered: Jan 2011
Location: Bethel, ohio
Posts: 422

The judge cannot make anyone sign the card. If the cast participant doesn't sign beside his dogs score that dog is scratched and nothing changes with the other scores on the card.
He should have filed a complaint against the judge for not accepting the question if he didn't get a satisfactory answer from the master of hounds. It really sounds like a judgment call as far as the limb goes, but the not taking the question part is the problem.

Last edited by RFussnecker on 03-29-2021 at 01:39 PM

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Registered: Apr 2019
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 19

So if they don’t sign the dog is scratched no matter what?How do you handle the situation then? Isn’t the purpose of signing the card to say that you agree on what the card reads? If the judge refuses to state that there is a question and doesn’t return to the clubhouse knowing there is a question how should that be handled? Or do you just take it on the chin and let people push you over and continue with their cheating (part of the reason there is so much cheating because no one wants to call them out on it and look like the bad guy)?

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9197

quote:

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Originally posted by Liberty Hill19
So if they don’t sign the dog is scratched no matter what?How do you handle the situation then? Isn’t the purpose of signing the card to say that you agree on what the card reads? If the judge refuses to state that there is a question and doesn’t return to the clubhouse knowing there is a question how should that be handled? Or do you just take it on the chin and let people push you over and continue with their cheating (part of the reason there is so much cheating because no one wants to call them out on it and look like the bad guy)?

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Registered: Apr 2019
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 19

Thanks Allen. Can this be done when the judge doesn’t return to the clubhouse? Or is it between the handlers and the MOH?

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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3370

I'm still hung up on his use of heat detection.

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Donald Bergeron

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Registered: Apr 2019
Location: SE Ohio
Posts: 19

Shadinc exactly the youth even said those aren’t legal in ukc and he said I’m a non hunting judge so
I can that was his answer for everything. I’m a non hunting judge was the answer for every question.

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Registered: Aug 2006
Location: Montour IOWA
Posts: 1714

Very poor judge that shouldn't be allowed to judge anymore. The youth should of filed a complaint and then UKC would of dealt with it.

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