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Ricochet17
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Crazy, Todd Felderman was saying that very same thing the other day Dave.

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Old Post 03-19-2024 07:29 PM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
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Posts: 1919

Re: Re: outstanding trackdogs

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Ken, you are correct at least in my opinion. I have hunted with many owners and dogs over the years and find your opinion to be correct. I have only known a few hunters that even knew what a real coon dog was or whose opinion I valued. I have been fortunate to have owned 3 to 4 top coon dogs, but they spoiled me. There are very few dogs that are actually top coon dogs in my opinion. Several good dogs and a bunch of just average coon dogs. I definitely respect your opinion on a top coon dog. Dave


It's the same in the hog hunting world…

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Old Post 03-20-2024 01:34 AM
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houndsound
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Location: Sheridan, WY
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I think great coonhounds are just usually good ones... but good every night.

Coonhounds to me are much more like baseball players than basketball players. You are not looking for the amazing, breath-taking out of this world plays.

You are looking for consistency night after night.

dk

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Old Post 03-20-2024 02:00 AM
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OLD TIMER
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1547

Baseball???

To be considered good you only have to hit 3 out of 10 pitches and to be great just hit 4 out of 10 and to many “hunters” are happy with that percentage. Every time I pitch one, they best be hitting 10 out of 10 and definitely no worse than 8 out of 10.

There’s a YouTube channel that has Elite Handler's, I’m just waiting for someone to produce one that has Elite Hounds.
I just can’t see why they are doing all that walking to slick trees and the last one I watched the Elite Handler won with 0!!!

But hey, I maybe missing something because these guys have more equipment on their vest and belts than any Special Forces have going into battle. I’m waiting for the time they parachute out of a plane with their hound strapped to their chest and hit the ground running. The tree will probably still be slick, but it sure would add to the video.

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Old Post 03-20-2024 03:20 AM
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ridgerunner1
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: VA
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They is still plenty of cold nose walker hounds out there just got to look for some bear/big game hunters to find one .. coon hunter just wants tree, tree , tree…
bear/big game hunters do not tolerate slick treeing foolish dogs on ..i no I have and keep between 7 -10 bear dogs and if I ever, ever , one time found one slick treed he wouldn’t wear my collar no more..
Coon hunters don’t breeed for that nose no more . Like big game hunters do.
That said I have a couple here at my house will take a 12hr old bear track., and no where much colder nosed dogs are located..

Last edited by ridgerunner1 on 03-20-2024 at 11:57 AM

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Old Post 03-20-2024 11:47 AM
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houndsound
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Re: Baseball???

quote:
Originally posted by OLD TIMER
To be considered good you only have to hit 3 out of 10 pitches and to be great just hit 4 out of 10 and to many “hunters” are happy with that percentage. Every time I pitch one, they best be hitting 10 out of 10 and definitely no worse than 8 out of 10.

There’s a YouTube channel that has Elite Handler's, I’m just waiting for someone to produce one that has Elite Hounds.
I just can’t see why they are doing all that walking to slick trees and the last one I watched the Elite Handler won with 0!!!

But hey, I maybe missing something because these guys have more equipment on their vest and belts than any Special Forces have going into battle. I’m waiting for the time they parachute out of a plane with their hound strapped to their chest and hit the ground running. The tree will probably still be slick, but it sure would add to the video.



Yes- you obviously missed something, or are just trying to be cantankerous. I wasn't comparing the number of times you swing a bat to the number of times you strike a coon... nothing of the sort was mentioned. I was obviously pointing to the fact that all-starts in baseball are that way because they are good- consistently for a 160 game series- much different than being a flashy quarterback for 12 games. My opinion was that great dogs- aren't ones with capes flying through the air doing some amazing things... but consistently treeing coons year round, and finding ways to do so regardless of conditions. Treeing a coon ain't hard... but it requires a great dog to do it headache free on a consistent basis- just my opinion. And your response did come across as a bored old man trying to stir up trouble on the internet to me- surely you could read the post I wrote and come to a better conclusion... but in all fairness I'll extend some grace as I just had back surgery, and am on pain meds and in quite a bit of pain,lol.

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Old Post 03-20-2024 03:19 PM
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OLD TIMER
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1547

The difference is—

Not all baseball games start with a strike, but most coon hunts do.

And because you’re on pain meds, I’m guess you meant “all stars” and not all starts??

And this is just my opinion but these ALL STAR games have become a joke. Funny how money can change a sport

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Old Post 03-20-2024 05:04 PM
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houndsound
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I was simply speaking metaphorically when I used the baseball analogy- no metaphor translates literally to every aspect of the object it is pointing the reader to. My ONLY point in the baseball reference was in the consistency needed to be considered excellent. Please stop trying to make my point about anything other than that.

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Old Post 03-20-2024 05:17 PM
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OLD TIMER
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1547

Let me apologize Mr. Houndsound--

I read your post to Uncle Willy and he said that now that it's legal here we should light up and enjoy your writing's and when the smoke clears I will have a better understanding of what you wrote.
So just scratch me and until next time--may you never run into another "cantankerous" person that doesn't understand your "metaphorically" uses of the English language when talking coonhounds.

OT

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Old Post 03-20-2024 05:46 PM
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Dave Richards
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Old Timer

I think your opinion of a coon dog is spot on. A good dog is just that one that performs decent night in night out, but lacks that something special that makes a truly great dog. I really do not think many hunters have ever hunted with a real top coon hound and see a good dog as being a top coon dog. Top coon dogs are rare and most coon hunters have never seen or hunted with one so they do not have that measuring stick to compare. While comparing or making analogies to sports is comparing Apple's to oranges, I will say this, a Larry Bird, Magic Johnson, and a few other top basketball players are considered TOP Players. Many others were good, but not on their level skill wise. Truly great dogs are just as rare as truly great sports stars. I have experienced hunting with and owning maybe 3 truly top coon dogs in over 55 years of coon hunting. All 3 shined every night making good dogs look like pups. I dare say that Old Timer has had a top coon dog or 2 in his time and knows exactly what I am talking about. Houndsound, I hope you have a speedy recovery from your surgery. Dave

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Dave Richards
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Cold nosed dogs

quote:
Originally posted by ridgerunner1
They is still plenty of cold nose walker hounds out there just got to look for some bear/big game hunters to find one .. coon hunter just wants tree, tree , tree…
bear/big game hunters do not tolerate slick treeing foolish dogs on ..i no I have and keep between 7 -10 bear dogs and if I ever, ever , one time found one slick treed he wouldn’t wear my collar no more..
Coon hunters don’t breeed for that nose no more . Like big game hunters do.
That said I have a couple here at my house will take a 12hr old bear track., and no where much colder nosed dogs are located..



Exactly, Thanks to you guys that keep these cold nosed dogs alive. I would hate to think that that blood would ever disappear. I am old school and enjoy a good cold nosed coon dog, one that can run a cold track and have the meat. Dave

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Old Post 03-20-2024 09:51 PM
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shadinc
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Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3373

I have a different take on this. I think all coonhounds have about the same scenting ability. Some are excited by weak scent and some need hotter scent to pique their interest. Dry ground lion hunters use the same dogs coon hunters use. My buddy asked a lion hunter where they found those cold nosed dogs. His answer was we use the same dogs you use, they learn to cold trail when there's nothing else available. I have a dog now that will cold trail with my other dog, but by himself he never trails. Lately he's been going a long distance to tree coons. Every time I cut him he trees a coon but I seldom hear him run it. He'll be treed a mile away. With my other dog they strike closer and he trails. So it seems he can cold trail he just chooses not to when alone.

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Old Post 03-21-2024 01:37 AM
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Georgeb
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Registered: Jul 2021
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Posts: 247

quote:
Originally posted by ridgerunner1
They is still plenty of cold nose walker hounds out there just got to look for some bear/big game hunters to find one .. coon hunter just wants tree, tree , tree…
bear/big game hunters do not tolerate slick treeing foolish dogs on ..i no I have and keep between 7 -10 bear dogs and if I ever, ever , one time found one slick treed he wouldn’t wear my collar no more..
Coon hunters don’t breeed for that nose no more . Like big game hunters do.
That said I have a couple here at my house will take a 12hr old bear track., and no where much colder nosed dogs are located..


I believe what you say but wouldnt it be easier for a hound to cold trail a 400 lb smelly bear than a 14 lb coon.lol.And not make a slick tree?

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Old Post 03-21-2024 01:43 AM
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Georgeb
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quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I have a different take on this. I think all coonhounds have about the same scenting ability. Some are excited by weak scent and some need hotter scent to pique their interest. Dry ground lion hunters use the same dogs coon hunters use. My buddy asked a lion hunter where they found those cold nosed dogs. His answer was we use the same dogs you use, they learn to cold trail when there's nothing else available. I have a dog now that will cold trail with my other dog, but by himself he never trails. Lately he's been going a long distance to tree coons. Every time I cut him he trees a coon but I seldom hear him run it. He'll be treed a mile away. With my other dog they strike closer and he trails. So it seems he can cold trail he just chooses not to when alone.

I read a article years ago in fullcry mag that stated what your saying about scenting ability.It could be true but when i brought it up to hunting friends none seem to believe it.Most folks think some dogs can smell better than others.That article made me think about it.

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Old Post 03-21-2024 02:10 AM
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Dave Richards
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Cold nosed

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I have a different take on this. I think all coonhounds have about the same scenting ability. Some are excited by weak scent and some need hotter scent to pique their interest. Dry ground lion hunters use the same dogs coon hunters use. My buddy asked a lion hunter where they found those cold nosed dogs. His answer was we use the same dogs you use, they learn to cold trail when there's nothing else available. I have a dog now that will cold trail with my other dog, but by himself he never trails. Lately he's been going a long distance to tree coons. Every time I cut him he trees a coon but I seldom hear him run it. He'll be treed a mile away. With my other dog they strike closer and he trails. So it seems he can cold trail he just chooses not to when alone.


Donald, I have seen a real cold nosed dog run not just track around and tree with the coon that other good dogs could not even smell. Those other dogs never knew a track existed and could not even smell enough to tree with the closed nosed dog. I have seen this happen enough times to definitely say that all dogs can not smell the same track. It's a proven fact that a blood hound can track a man's track that's 3 days old, just Google and see for yourself. I have heard this argument different times over the years that all dogs can smell the same, but my experiences say they can not. Dave

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Old Post 03-21-2024 02:27 AM
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MOcoondogs
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I have to agree with Dave.

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Old Post 03-21-2024 02:41 AM
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shadinc
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Re: Cold nosed

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Donald, I have seen a real cold nosed dog run not just track around and tree with the coon that other good dogs could not even smell. Those other dogs never knew a track existed and could not even smell enough to tree with the closed nosed dog. I have seen this happen enough times to definitely say that all dogs can not smell the same track. It's a proven fact that a blood hound can track a man's track that's 3 days old, just Google and see for yourself. I have heard this argument different times over the years that all dogs can smell the same, but my experiences say they can not. Dave
I've read plenty about blood hounds. Are there any hot nosed bloodhounds? I didn't compare coonhounds to bloodhounds. But dogs that can't run a 2 hour old coon track can trail a lion track 7 days old on dust and rock. Could training have something to do with that? Are you sure that the other dogs can't smell the track or are they just not interested in it? If you hunted my two dogs separately you would say she has a lot colder nose than him, but when together they cold trail together. If he chose not to trail with her, you would say he can't smell it?

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Old Post 03-21-2024 02:45 AM
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shadinc
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Re: Re: Cold nosed

[QUOTE]Originally posted by shadinc
[B]I've read plenty about blood hounds. Are there any hot nosed bloodhounds? I didn't compare coonhounds to bloodhounds. But dogs that can't run a 2 hour old coon track can trail a lion track 7 days old on dust and rock. Could training have something to do with that? Are you sure that the other dogs can't smell the track or are they just not interested in it? If you hunted my two dogs separately you would say she has a lot colder nose than him, but when together they cold trail together. If he chose not to trail with her, you would say he can't smell it? This smelling and trailing discussion has been going on since scent hounds have been used. We will never know for sure because we can't smell it and dogs can't talk. Walker: that stupid bluetick is gonna be all night with that track. I'm going find something I can put in in tree quickly.

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Dave Richards
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Cold nosed dogs

Donald, just think about it, if a dog that trees coons on a regular basis does not attempt to run or track and can not even tree with a dog that ran the track and trees the coon ( coon seen ) it would be common sense to assume the dog could not smell that track. Some dogs are back packers and just tag along with the colder nosed dog and some dogs are just silent on track or only open on hot tracks. A true cold nosed coon dog will show up the majority of the dogs that are hunted with them. A true cold nosed dog will make a cold track look like a hot track. A lot of hunters have never seen a true cold nosed dog and mistake a dog wallowing a track or having trouble moving a track to be cold nosed. Those kind of dogs are just poor track dogs and should not be confused with a cold nosed dog. My experiences have taught me that dogs noses are not the same and it's definitely not about a dogs interest as much as the dogs nose. Slick treeing is just poor TRACKING or lack of nose in my opinion. Dave

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Old Post 03-21-2024 04:57 AM
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Dave Richards
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Preacher Tom

Please accept my sincere apologies for high jacking your thread. I am out of touch on what breeders are breeding for cold nosed track dogs these days. Now 40 years ago was a different story. I too love a true cold nosed track running coon dog and there were more of those years ago than now. They still exist but are much harder to find. Old Timer was right in one of his posts stating the price of hides and the money hunts have been a down sizing of the cold nosed replaced by hot nosed ambush style dogs of today. I do not think many of the coon hunters today want a cold nosed dog, it's supply and demand. Coon populations have increased to the point that Old hot nosed is what today's hunters desire. I came up in thin coons and a cold nosed dog was required for these mountain coons that were hard to find and hard to tree. I also, do not think many hunters even know what a true cold nosed coon dog is, thinking a poor track dog is messing with a cold track and nothing could be further from the truth. Watching and hearing a true cold nosed coon dog run a cold track and tree with the meat that most dogs can not even smell brings a big old smile to my face. Sorry to say that I do not have one now, as I only have 1 hound a Dual Grand Nite Champion that trees coons, but lacks the nose I desire. Dave

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Preacher Tom
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Re: Preacher Tom

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Please accept my sincere apologies for high jacking your thread. I am out of touch on what breeders are breeding for cold nosed track dogs these days. Now 40 years ago was a different story. I too love a true cold nosed track running coon dog and there were more of those years ago than now. They still exist but are much harder to find. Old Timer was right in one of his posts stating the price of hides and the money hunts have been a down sizing of the cold nosed replaced by hot nosed ambush style dogs of today. I do not think many of the coon hunters today want a cold nosed dog, it's supply and demand. Coon populations have increased to the point that Old hot nosed is what today's hunters desire. I came up in thin coons and a cold nosed dog was required for these mountain coons that were hard to find and hard to tree. I also, do not think many hunters even know what a true cold nosed coon dog is, thinking a poor track dog is messing with a cold track and nothing could be further from the truth. Watching and hearing a true cold nosed coon dog run a cold track and tree with the meat that most dogs can not even smell brings a big old smile to my face. Sorry to say that I do not have one now, as I only have 1 hound a Dual Grand Nite Champion that trees coons, but lacks the nose I desire. Dave


No problem Dave. I remember in the 70's when hide prices had everyone in Western Oklahoma either trapping, spotlighting or coon hunting and you needed a dog that could work up a cold track, there just weren't that many tracks to be had. And you are right a good one doesn't need all night to do it.

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Dave Richards
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Preacher Tom

With today's hotter nosed dogs unable to move a cold track is the norm. They try but can not move and some folks mistake that for cold nosed. I think we have bred the nose out of our modern coon dogs, dogs that still tree plenty coons due to the larger population of coons in most areas. Let the hide prices go back up for a few years and a lot of hunters will be disappointed in the numbers of coons they tree after a few years of high prices. Hot nosed dogs would become useless in thin coon populations. I NEVER hide hunted regardless of hide prices, coon hunter was and still is my hobby. I much prefer to run and tree rather than kill a bunch of coons. I guess my early days of thin coons made me want to conserve the coons we had. Dave

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Preacher Tom
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Re: Preacher Tom

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
With today's hotter nosed dogs unable to move a cold track is the norm. They try but can not move and some folks mistake that for cold nosed. I think we have bred the nose out of our modern coon dogs, dogs that still tree plenty coons due to the larger population of coons in most areas. Let the hide prices go back up for a few years and a lot of hunters will be disappointed in the numbers of coons they tree after a few years of high prices. Hot nosed dogs would become useless in thin coon populations. I NEVER hide hunted regardless of hide prices, coon hunter was and still is my hobby. I much prefer to run and tree rather than kill a bunch of coons. I guess my early days of thin coons made me want to conserve the coons we had. Dave


Have never shot two coon out of one tree even when the hides were high. Like you I grew up where coon were thin. We were importing coon so that we could have something to hunt. I have never enjoyed killing a coon and still don't. I kill what I think my dogs need to keep them right. Most don't need very many.

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DL NH
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You’re spot on Tom! If you have to shoot coon to a hound to keep it treeing coon you’d be better off getting rid of the dog and finding another.

The last 2 coon hounds I owned were mother and son. The mother treed on coon her first night in the woods. Five years later her son did the same.

Coon hounds are born coon hounds. The only thing they need from us is good care, taught to handle, time in the woods where coon can be found and taught right from wrong when they run trash.

Same goes for any dog that is used to hunt game, no matter what the game, as far as I’m concerned.

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Old Post 03-22-2024 09:28 PM
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