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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
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How were they trained

See a lot of comments on how to start and train a dog. Use cage coon, don't use age coon, use another dog, start them by themselves. So what I would be interested in knowing is exactly how were some of the dogs that are at the top now started and trained. It would be very informative if the guys who trained the dogs would tell use the basics of how they did it. Not wanting any trade secrets but just if you used cage coons, turn outs, let them run loose , used another dog, etc.

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Cory Highfill
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Location: Clarksville, AR
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I can't speak for any of the dogs competing at a high level right now, but there was a blue dog in this country back in the late 90's that was as good as they come. Did a significant deal of winning and could have really made a mark in the right hands with the right backers. Anyway, he ran loose with beagles, was pack hunted, and was shown tons of caged coons. They let him fight coons, had jump races any time they could get a coon out, hunted him out of boats and road hunted him. Ive been with a ton of winners, and hunted with several pretty regularly, but he was the best dog, and maybe the ONLY good dog I've ever seen.

He was hunted the same way hundreds of culls were, and still are. He was the result of a dog trader cross, and had exactly one Nt Ch in the 3rd generation of his pedigree. Everything about his breeding, training, and handling was common. He just happened.

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River Birch Run
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Most of them are buy backs the rest are by committee. My good friend has handled and made many world and national champs of all KC's. He is great at taking a young hound that is already running and treeing and finishing them out. He puts them in the woods every nite, all nite. It dosen't take long to see rather a dog is going to be able to handle the stress of nite after nite comp hunting in his hands. The dogs he gets have already been in a few other people's hands 1st. The 1st person takes them from pups shows them the basic's a gets them started. Once they begin to run and tree they get sent to the next person who singles them out teach them what they want from them (brake them from off game). When they get to where they fire in there and get treed every time then they go to my buddy.

The others are raised and trained by avg. hunters . They turn out to be good hounds and word gets back to most often the sire owner and they buy them and put them in the hands of a paid handler.

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L. Poe
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Once every decade or so I come across a hound that shows me something that impresses me enough to single it out and hunt it's toenails off. In the late 1970s it was a hound named Dan. The 80s was one named Rebel Pride. In the 90s it was a gyp named Rebel Racket. In the early 2000s it was a hound 2 or 3 people might of known named GRNTCHGRCH ROBINSON'S ENGLISH LOOSER. All of them spent 50 or 100 nights hunted alone to every 1 night they hunted in a cast. Loose and Racket were each hunted 360+ nights a year for 4+ years strait. There were dozens or hundreds of other hounds between each, but none I felt were worth walking to when the weather kept sane people at home on the couch.

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Preacher Tom
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quote:
Originally posted by L. Poe
Once every decade or so I come across a hound that shows me something that impresses me enough to single it out and hunt it's toenails off. In the late 1970s it was a hound named Dan. The 80s was one named Rebel Pride. In the 90s it was a gyp named Rebel Racket. In the early 2000s it was a hound 2 or 3 people might of known named GRNTCHGRCH ROBINSON'S ENGLISH LOOSER. All of them spent 50 or 100 nights hunted alone to every 1 night they hunted in a cast. Loose and Racket were each hunted 360+ nights a year for 4+ years strait. There were dozens or hundreds of other hounds between each, but none I felt were worth walking to when the weather kept sane people at home on the couch.


Thanks for the reply. My question would be how were these dogs started. Alone? With or without cage cooon, etc.

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L. Poe
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LOOSER was a nt ch when I bought him from Larry Robinson tbh, he could answer better than me on him. The others were trained alone from the start. No cage coons or etc. Just allowed to run free as pups and walked to when they started barking up, or walked around the woods as pups and coons shot out when they got the idea to tree. I do remember an exceptional full younger sister to LOOSER I bought as a young dog who had been hunted like 10 times. First night I walked her she treed a layup coon right in front of me. I shot it out and hunted her alone the next 90+ nights straight. Her name was nt ch Ozarks Rebel Battle Cry ( we called her Crank).

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L. Poe
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She made nt ch in like 4 or 5 casts. I forget exactly now.

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Preacher Tom
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quote:
Originally posted by L. Poe
LOOSER was a nt ch when I bought him from Larry Robinson tbh, he could answer better than me on him. The others were trained alone from the start. No cage coons or etc. Just allowed to run free as pups and walked to when they started barking up, or walked around the woods as pups and coons shot out when they got the idea to tree. I do remember an exceptional full younger sister to LOOSER I bought as a young dog who had been hunted like 10 times. First night I walked her she treed a layup coon right in front of me. I shot it out and hunted her alone the next 90+ nights straight. Her name was nt ch Ozarks Rebel Battle Cry ( we called her Crank).


Thanks that is the information I'm looking for. It's easy to say this or that is the way to train but this helps to know how dogs that were really successful were started. I personally have to pay for a place to let one run loose but it's sure worth it.

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pamjohnson
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I guess it depends on what you call really successful. If you call making a better than average coon dog successful. There may be more responses than needing to be winners. Many of the big winners are not started by the same fellows that make them big winners even if the same fellow owns them from pups .

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Preacher Tom
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quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I guess it depends on what you call really successful. If you call making a better than average coon dog successful. There may be more responses than needing to be winners. Many of the big winners are not started by the same fellows that make them big winners even if the same fellow owns them from pups .


I understand this but wanting info on how the big winners were started. I know that most of the time they are note finished or campaigned by the same people. Just wanting to know about the foundation.

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Dave Richards
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Preacher Tom

My hunting partner has trained some of the best, he always starts them with a seasoned coon Dog and once they get to going good, he hunts them by themselves. We always hunt our dogs one at a time when they can tree a coon by themselves, we just take turns turning them loose. Yes, it takes more time every night to do this, but the dogs seem to make better coon dogs hunting this way. Dave

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Preacher Tom
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Dave Richards

Dave that's about how I do it. But I'm thinking about trying to start the next pup by itself. Have never done so, so that is part of the reason for this post. I want to give the dog the best chance I can. I have two dogs now, one finished and one making a really nice dog. When some one goes with me I turn the finished dog loose with their dog and when we are done with that drop I turn the young dog loosely himself. But it really doesn't matter too much because he will get off and find his own coon 80% of the time anyway. He will absolutely cover another dog but doesn't usually have to.

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Dave Richards
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Preacher Tom

Starting a green dog from scratch by itself is a time consuming project to say the least. I honestly do not see any real benefit from using this approach with any dog, now that's just my thoughts. Using a trained reliable dog to start a pup or young dog just gets the dog off on the right foot and definitely speeds up the training. Letting a untrained dog just explore on its on can cause unwanted behavior from the dog. A well bred pup that's put with a trained dog can learn much more than it ever could hunting on its own. Children go to school and learn from those who already know what they are seeking to learn, just imagine a child with no formal teaching trying to learn everything on their own. Yes, it can be done, but takes much more time and a lot of mistakes made on the way. Dave

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novicane65
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Re: Dave Richards

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Dave that's about how I do it. But I'm thinking about trying to start the next pup by itself. Have never done so, so that is part of the reason for this post. I want to give the dog the best chance I can. I have two dogs now, one finished and one making a really nice dog. When some one goes with me I turn the finished dog loose with their dog and when we are done with that drop I turn the young dog loosely himself. But it really doesn't matter too much because he will get off and find his own coon 80% of the time anyway. He will absolutely cover another dog but doesn't usually have to.




1st I'm not a pup guy first n foremost. But my partner gets them started and I hunt them when he says its ready. You can start w however you like but if you're really wanting to try it alone, I'd recommend setting up some feeder buckets with trail cams on them. You'll know where to take the pups for success. And if you can let them run loose from about 3-7 months or when the neighbors start calling it helps. My partner has started some pretty decent dogs in the past 5 years or so, a few SS winners and a few Gold champs. We go through a pile of pups before we get the natural talent we want. And it doesn't seem to matter if it's our stock or we buy pups either.

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J. Pinson
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quote:
Originally posted by Cory Highfill
I can't speak for any of the dogs competing at a high level right now, but there was a blue dog in this country back in the late 90's that was as good as they come. Did a significant deal of winning and could have really made a mark in the right hands with the right backers. Anyway, he ran loose with beagles, was pack hunted, and was shown tons of caged coons. They let him fight coons, had jump races any time they could get a coon out, hunted him out of boats and road hunted him. Ive been with a ton of winners, and hunted with several pretty regularly, but he was the best dog, and maybe the ONLY good dog I've ever seen.

He was hunted the same way hundreds of culls were, and still are. He was the result of a dog trader cross, and had exactly one Nt Ch in the 3rd generation of his pedigree. Everything about his breeding, training, and handling was common. He just happened.



Id be interested in knowing what blue dog that was? did he ever make any kind of name for his self?

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V. Cannon
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I have been fortunate to have hunted with several hounds that went on to become the kind of hounds that could and did win a higher than normal percentage of their casts.
There’s two things every one of these dogs had in common which one was they got hunted hard but the most obvious thing is that each hound possessed the drive to handle the hard hunting along with natural ability to excel beyond other hounds capabilities.

Some hounds aren’t hunted hard enough to give them the experience to develop but very few dogs of any breed have the tools to become exceptional regardless of how they’re hunted.

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DL NH
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quote:
Originally posted by V. Cannon
Some hounds aren’t hunted hard enough to give them the experience to develop but very few dogs of any breed have the tools to become exceptional regardless of how they’re hunted.


That there sums it up pretty well! May the day never come to where the exceptional becomes the norm! If it does all the anticipation and intrigue that burns within the hearts of those who love to follow the hounds will have gone and the fire will go out!

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Reuben
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quote:
Originally posted by DL NH
That there sums it up pretty well! May the day never come to where the exceptional becomes the norm! If it does all the anticipation and intrigue that burns within the hearts of those who love to follow the hounds will have gone and the fire will go out!


I agree...but at the same time we will go through many dogs looking for the great ones...

That is why I would rather breed my own and select from the whole litter...it’s more work and money but well worthwhile in my opinion...

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Cory Highfill
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quote:
Originally posted by J. Pinson
Id be interested in knowing what blue dog that was? did he ever make any kind of name for his self?


He was just a little all blue dog they called Smokey. He was well known locally, and was the dog to beat anytime he was in a cast. That was back when there were alot of local guys packing some power. There was a club down at Plainview AR that had series type club hunts throughout the year, and it wouldn't be uncommon for a breed leader, state race leaders, or a dog that went on to win the world to show up for those club hunts. They all hated to draw him. He'd just fire in the world, open a few times and come treed. Nearly always had a coon, and was tough enough if anything wanted to push.
Nice, nice little hound. Carried around more heart than any I've ever seen I guess.

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ronald schultz
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One of better questions posted in long time

Great!

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Bruce m. Conkey
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.

Some hounds aren’t hunted hard enough to give them the experience to develop but very few dogs of any breed have the tools to become exceptional regardless of how they’re hunted.

This is what I feel is the key to having real nice dogs. There are men that excel in one of the two things above. They have the ability, time and desire to hunt one hard. Or they have have the ability to see if the dog has the tools they need. You find a man that had both those abilities and you will find a coondog at the end of his leash.

Way to many dogs with ability are just sitting somewhere in a pen not being hunted. Way to many dogs without that special ability are being hunted hard by men that lets their ego get in the way of realizing they could have a better dog. But they think theirs just need a few more coon. When there isn't enough coon to make the one they are hunting a coonhound.

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Preacher Tom
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I totally agree with dogs needing to be hunted hard but my original question has more to do with how they were started/trained. I know that a lot of top dogs are purchased after they have shown that they have what it takes but my question is does it really matter if they are or aren't shown cage coons, started with another dog or by themselves? Personally I tend to think the good ones make it either way.

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Josh Michaelis
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quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
I totally agree with dogs needing to be hunted hard but my original question has more to do with how they were started/trained. I know that a lot of top dogs are purchased after they have shown that they have what it takes but my question is does it really matter if they are or aren't shown cage coons, started with another dog or by themselves? Personally I tend to think the good ones make it either way.


Like any dog it varies from big winner to big winner.

The only one I know of that seen several cage coons was Xjr

There is no magic universal training program these dogs have had. The only thing they have in common is most were raised, finished, and started by good hunters that knew dogs, and 99% of them were helped along by multiple handlers and owners along the way.

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2ol2hunt
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Most great dogs make it in spite of most hunters I figure! What y'all think?

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Reuben
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quote:
Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
Most great dogs make it in spite of most hunters I figure! What y'all think?


A hunter can ruin a good dog...one wrong move and the dog quits hunting and it goes down hill from there...

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