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I have never given a thyroid pill or had a dog that needed one and they have all been consistant, My friend has a crossbred out of a thyroid male and all pups are thyroid dogs now as the last of the 6 just went on the meds, he never had a problem before and the mother is not a thyroid dog either and none of her earlier pups are out of thyroid dogs. So I guess this knocks the theory of outbreeding to stop thyroid problems in the head

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Sonny I am really trying to understand I am not mad about the disease I am mad about good people like you that have went out and bred to a guys dog and him knowing full well they were passing down this defect. I have talked to some very good vets here just like people when you give them high doses of steroids for long periods of time it effects their thyroid then you have to fix that they been doping them dogs , horses ,athletes ,ect for a long time and just like a drug addict they pass it down to their children. If you like your dog keep hunting him just don't breed him. These guys have done this to get an extra advantage just like using their devices to cheat among other things the dogs are the only animal in competition that go unchecked they even have went so far as to slip sombodys dogs a micky when their not looking just to beat them yes it's ugly out there but what's uglier is when it happens is who had the most to gain at that event and they stand around like they are innocent as a lamb and people are bragging on them the next week I don't like to see my friends taken advantage of and I consider all of you my friends it time to get the ugly out of this sport !!

Sincerly: tar

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Location: Glenmont,Ohio
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I understand what you are saying and I agree with most of it. I appreciate your stand on doing whats right and I hate a cheater as much as the next guy. The best dog doesnt always win and it takes hard work night after night and some luck to win big hunts. then you have a couple snakes around that cheat a guy outta the win he deserved. The whole thyroid issue still has alot of unknowns to fully know what came from where. Before I had the dog I have now, I would have said that I would never own a thyroid dog, But he is a good hound and most of all he is a really nice dog and buddy. I have no plans to breed him, But I would like another one like him and dont know how to do that without going for the same blood.

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The Thyroid issue and the issue with females not coming in heat is something a lot larger that just breeding the wrong dogs.
We we have the same issues crossing breed lines and showing up in about all our breeds and cross breeds of hounds. The recessive gene that has been kept silent for a long time is coming out and generally that is due to the environment, especially when it appears like it is today. Dogs immune systems have to stand up to a lot of things and some the home remedies we use on them may not help.
You could have a dog that normally would never have a thyroid problem get exposed to a chemical and its genetic make up allows problems to slip in. Dog food was discussed as an issue. The discussion puts about every food in the same boat--bad for dogs. Something has changed in our environment to allow the same feed we have fed for years to now be toxic for our hounds and bring on health issues.

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Ok Bruce we will go the dog food route people see a mr big stuff driving a new pickup they want one just like it so as dog boxes , lights , tracking systems so he wins a couple big hunts and he says I feed super duper all meat and no potatoes 60% protine dog food so I can be deep and alone with fifteen looking down and be in the late round every hunt cashing big checks because I don't have a job and can hunt every night. Then the guy with the job that hunts 2 nights a week feeds it and it's to much protine and it hurts them more than it helps you ever seen what happens to one of those body builders that has taken all those supplements when they quit working out ? Some of this dog food is to good to be true I eat a lot of corn it ain't hurt me yet. If they need iodine give it to them get get some cans of tuna or somthing throw some salt on their food I still think the big boys are doping their dogs because they can win more than they can make in stud fees and it's causing everybody else problems I have not had a very qualified vet come on here and say otherwise. Over dosing steroids for a long period of time causes thyroid problems.

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"big boys are doping their dogs"......my sentiments xactly.
Unfortunately there's no testing being done pre/post .

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I wonder how many low thyroid dogs have a tick disease also?

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Ok Bruce we will go the dog food route people see a mr big stuff driving a new pickup they want one just like it so as dog boxes , lights , tracking systems so he wins a couple big hunts and he says I feed super duper all meat and no potatoes 60% protine dog food so I can be deep and alone with fifteen looking down and be in the late round every hunt cashing big checks because I don't have a job and can hunt every night. Then the guy with the job that hunts 2 nights a week feeds it and it's to much protine and it hurts them more than it helps you ever seen what happens to one of those body builders that has taken all those supplements when they quit working out ? Some of this dog food is to good to be true I eat a lot of corn it ain't hurt me yet. If they need iodine give it to them get get some cans of tuna or somthing throw some salt on their food I still think the big boys are doping their dogs because they can win more than they can make in stud fees and it's causing everybody else problems I have not had a very qualified vet come on here and say otherwise. Over dosing steroids for a long period of time causes thyroid problems.

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We're does that leave me I am disabled, got a job got to to work at 2:00 today and I am not a pro and I think my thyroid is off because all I want to do is nap time ( I had tick fever in 1986 ) and I love corn lol.

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Registered: Sep 2007
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you got a job, so you can hunt with the other working people that keep the registries going.......

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Sonny I hope y'all get this thing figured out I just wish the ones responsible for causing it were brought to light. I know what it's like to have a dog you think a lot of you would spare no cost to get them healthy good luck on finding the answers you need. I am trying to learn unfortunately I think I learned more than I want to know at some point sombody will have to stand their ground and not let these dogs be bred anymore us little guys deserve that like you said we pay the bills got to go to work now.


Tar

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Registered: Jun 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Sonny I hope y'all get this thing figured out I just wish the ones responsible for causing it were brought to light. I know what it's like to have a dog you think a lot of you would spare no cost to get them healthy good luck on finding the answers you need. I am trying to learn unfortunately I think I learned more than I want to know at some point sombody will have to stand their ground and not let these dogs be bred anymore us little guys deserve that like you said we pay the bills got to go to work now.


Tar

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Joey your exactly right in my opinion. That is why the other breeds are following the same Thyroid path. The pattern we have used to breed these dogs no matter what breed they are is the same and has allowed this to happen.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Joey your exactly right in my opinion. That is why the other breeds are following the same Thyroid path. The pattern we have used to breed these dogs no matter what breed they are is the same and has allowed this to happen.

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I view line breeding as a valuable breeding method to eliminate undesireable traits or defects. Very seldom does inbreeding improve the overall performance. Inbreed would be a way to eliminate the thyroid problems or you can ignore the source and compound the problem.

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quote:

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Originally posted by wjoey
I have never given a thyroid pill or had a dog that needed one and they have all been consistant, My friend has a crossbred out of a thyroid male and all pups are thyroid dogs now as the last of the 6 just went on the meds, he never had a problem before and the mother is not a thyroid dog either and none of her earlier pups are out of thyroid dogs. So I guess this knocks the theory of outbreeding to stop thyroid problems in the head

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quote:

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Originally posted by joey
No Joe it doesn't knock it in the head, the male carried it as a dominate trait and passed it on just as one or both of his parents did. Just because he is cross bred means nothing. This problem is not going to go away because we will not be responsible enough with our breeding to do anything about it. The major problem is its something that cant be physically seen and the dogs are 2 to 4 before it shows up. Look all over the board guys are trying to figure out how to get their gyps with thyroid problems to come in heat so they can sell us pups!

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Make up your mind is it dominant or recessive?

AUTOIMMUNE THYROIDITIS is the number one cause according to the article.

That means the NUMBER ONE CAUSE IS AN INFECTION, not genetic. Sure there are strains that have the genetic problem but that is not the number one cause.

Could there be a genetic component? Yes there could but this is set off from an infection most of the time. What kind? Anything can do it.

Some of this stuff is from people with absolutely no medical, biological or scientific background.

I realize that dogs and humans are different but I treat thyroid disease every day in humans and autoimmune is one of those things that if it happens it happens. No way to prevent it, some of you guys hollerin the loudest may have one with it next week.

Then some are trying to claim people are giving it to dogs to help performance, well that would kill a person, there is a reason Athletes don't use thyroid hormone to dope with, it would kill them and it would make them weak over all because of the muscle wasting it causes. That's not hearsay or opinion, that is fact. You can't over give thyroid medication without causing serious damage. That's why the WADA still refused to ban thyroid medication for Olympic athletes, because the safe range is so narrow any benefit is very marginal at best, if too much is given then it actually hurts the athlete. So plenty of people are trying to get it outlawed in human sports, but the science doesn't back it up.

One last thing, if they were doping with it then none of the pups would have a problem with their thyroid. Why? Because their thyroid would have stopped working because of over stimulation, not genetics. Their genes are fine so you can't pass that down to the pups if that is the case because it wasn't a genetic cause.

Bottom line is that in lines where it is prevalent it is most likely genetic. In dogs that just shows up from time to time then it would likely have another cause such as lack of iodine, infections, or some dufus giving thyroid medicine to a dog that doesn't need it making the healthy thyroid regress

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Last edited by Rip on 04-28-2017 at 09:47 PM

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I'm not a breeder, a doctor, or a very smart person for that matter, but when dodo birds stopped breeding, they became extinct. Maybe we could do the same for thyroid dogs.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Rip
Make up your mind is it dominant or recessive?

AUTOIMMUNE THYROIDITIS is the number one cause according to the article.

That means the NUMBER ONE CAUSE IS AN INFECTION, not genetic. Sure there are strains that have the genetic problem but that is not the number one cause.

Could there be a genetic component? Yes there could but this is set off from an infection most of the time. What kind? Anything can do it.

Some of this stuff is from people with absolutely no medical, biological or scientific background.

I realize that dogs and humans are different but I treat thyroid disease every day in humans and autoimmune is one of those things that if it happens it happens. No way to prevent it, some of you guys hollerin the loudest may have one with it next week.

Then some are trying to claim people are giving it to dogs to help performance, well that would kill a person, there is a reason Athletes don't use thyroid hormone to dope with, it would kill them and it would make them weak over all because of the muscle wasting it causes. That's not hearsay or opinion, that is fact. You can't over give thyroid medication without causing serious damage. That's why the WADA still refused to ban thyroid medication for Olympic athletes, because the safe range is so narrow any benefit is very marginal at best, if too much is given then it actually hurts the athlete. So plenty of people are trying to get it outlawed in human sports, but the science doesn't back it up.

One last thing, if they were doping with it then none of the pups would have a problem with their thyroid. Why? Because their thyroid would have stopped working because of over stimulation, not genetics. Their genes are fine so you can't pass that down to the pups if that is the case because it wasn't a genetic cause.

Bottom line is that in lines where it is prevalent it is most likely genetic. In dogs that just shows up from time to time then it would likely have another cause such as lack of iodine, infections, or some dufus giving thyroid medicine to a dog that doesn't need it making the healthy thyroid regress

---

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quote:

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Originally posted by joey
Rip, when it is so common in a line of dogs that they dang near all have it its not a recessive gene anymore is it? That was my point at some point it was a recessive gene but you can take a whipeout dog and breed it to a dog that is completely unrelated with no history of a problem and the whole litter have a problem later in life. If our problem is caused mainly from an infection related issue then what changed down the line that caused every dog that gets a health issue to have a thyroid problem? Obviously you have a much greater knowledge about this stuff than the rest of us, I'm trying to learn.

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Actually once a recessive gene always a recessive gene. HOWEVER now you are getting more into a discussion about homozygous verses heterozygous.

You can actually breed for a recessive trait and make it SEEM dominant by breeding out all the dominant ones. Such as blue eyes. The blue gene is recessive. It will always be recessive but after generations of breeding only blue eyes then there will no gene available to pass to the offspring other than the recessive gene. That's what you want to do if that trait is desirable. However, on an outcross if that animal doesn't have a recessive copy of that gene then the eyes will be brown as brown would be dominant. Brown eyed animals can have blue eyed offspring if they have a recessive blue gene that is hidden by the dominant brown gene.

Now to the thyroid. You are absolutely correct that there are some thyroid conditions that are genetic alone. As you said if a particular line always does that then you would think that it is a genetic issue instead of the most common problem of autoimmune thyroid failure.

You are also correct that if the issue is passed on no matter what the genetic make up of the outcross that would make it dominant because if it were recessive then an outcross would cover it up.

That is why you line breed and cull, the line breeding doesn't put any recessive traits into your dogs, it just uncovers them to where you can see what they are. It's hard to explain on the internet LOL.

But the point I was making was not that certain lines did not have a genetic problem, I was just pointing out the most common thyroid problem in dogs is caused by an autoimmune reaction, not a genetic trait passed down.

I know some lines that I think have a genetic issue I just ain't sayin which

Yes it can be a problem, but just because a dog has a thyroid issue doesn't mean it is going to pass it on to the pups. Depends on what brought it on.

Sometimes things don't come out right when you type them. I mean no disrespect or anything I am always happy to help and try to give an answer when I think I know or have an understanding of the issue.

I also know that dogs are different than humans so there is that too.

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Last edited by Rip on 04-29-2017 at 12:03 AM

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I agree with what you said with the line breeding but because it is something that is not obvious it's not culled. So I believe that it has been brought out by heavy line breeding and no culling.

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Rip don't dance around this question answer strait up yes and why or no and why to remind you I have the answer right here in front of me from sombody you won't be able to dance around if a human abuses performance enhancing drugs and steroids will it cause thyroid abnormalitys same with dogs no dancing allowed strait answer doc !!!

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quote:

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Originally posted by novicane65
Well after taking my older female to 6 different vets not 1 can tell me why she isn't coming into heat. Her t4 level is low normal at 1.7 and doesn't seem to vary much. I got her 3 years ago and she came in heat a couple months after I got her. And nothing now. Have had male dogs around her every month for almost 2 years. And none of the males acted like she was coming in, so silent heat is out. And all the vets told me was she didn't need any thyroid meds. But those 2 things are connected to each other. And she's on good food ( pro plan), takes a daily vitamin. And the vets can't tell me why she isn't coming in heat.

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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Rip don't dance around this question answer strait up yes and why or no and why to remind you I have the answer right here in front of me from sombody you won't be able to dance around if a human abuses performance enhancing drugs and steroids will it cause thyroid abnormalitys same with dogs no dancing allowed strait answer doc !!!

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Joey how can you say that addicts give birth to addicts every day some become as addicted as their parents not saying how your case happend it started probly 10 or more years ago doping those dogs to get them in the dark to compete at a higher level that big motor they talk about you don't see them putting regular gas in a dragster steroid and performance enhancing drugs created thyroid problems I won't say no more I am done.

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