Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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I treed a coon and 2 possums in a persimmon tree one night. I don't know if the dogs treed the coon or the possums. I didn't know whether to pet them or whip them.

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quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
I treed a coon and 2 possums in a persimmon tree one night. I don't know if the dogs treed the coon or the possums. I didn't know whether to pet them or whip them.

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Went to Todd’s and hunted Badger with Lucky and Phoenix(I been spelling it wrong) last night. Had a really good time. Pups did a good job of staying out from under our feet. This was the first exposure to actual ‘hunting’ for Phoenix. This was the third time I have let Lucky tag along. To make a long story short, we made one tree. On the way in to that tree, heard a ‘different’ tree bark, definitely not Badger. Lucky , obviously didn’t tree the coon, but he was trying to tree with Badger. I videoed as I walked to tree. I snapped this picture upon arrival. Phoenix got some training with a drag after coon was shot out and she really impressed me. I laid about a 40 yd drag. She found the coon, but didn’t know to look up...so after a few seconds, lowered the coon down long enough for her to get interested, and then pulled it right back up. She starting chopping like an old seasoned pro. Let me tell you fellers, that dogs sounds good. Really nice tree mouth. Her and Lucky look almost identical. I really like their look. They are probably a little lighter colored than a lot of red dogs you see, but they are really hounds looking. When it comes to mouth, they couldn’t sound more different. I think these pups have some really big stuff ahead of them. Long ways to go still yet, but they sure are making it easy for me to stay interested.

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Registered: Aug 2004
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How old are those pups now? It sounds like they are making progress. I remember that Tom Solberg used to say that it didn't matter what they were doing as long as they were making steady progress.

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I sure do miss conversing back and forth with Topdog. He helped me out a whole bunch when I was learning the ropes and trying to train Badger. He didn’t tell me that I would still be trying to learn 10 years later! My favorite quote of his was “unrealistic expectations are a roadblock to success.” I try to always think about that when something goes wrong with a young dog. I find that I don’t get near as mad and cause as much damage as I have caused and seen caused in the past.

Richard, all of these puppies are right at 4.5 months old right now. I just got a report from Todd that Lucky ran a track about 600 yds tonight, before he came back in to Todd. He said he suspected it was probably a deer. Said Lucky was opening well on the track. He was hunting Lucky and Phoenix by themselves. Their hunt got cut short when they encountered a group of wild hogs. Todd had to empty the gun to run them off and said the pups never flinched. Said they definitely ain’t gun shy.

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Todd had someone give him a cage coon yesterday. Lucky has had all the training he needs with a cage coon, but Phoenix actually hasn’t had one single cage coon exposure. Lucky and Phoenix are both at his place right now. Todd decided to make a drag with the cage coon and see if if the pups could find it. He took it to the middle of a field and made the drag run off into the woods and hung it up in a tree. Then he went back and opened the pups pen. They had not even seen the coon in the cage. He started them across the field and he said they just starting sprinting across the field(playing/racing). Then when they ran across the coon scent trail he said they locked it up nearly doing flip and started trailing the coon. Said they trailed it straight down to the tree. Lucky and Phoenix both treed really well on it. He Took the coon out of the tree and let the pups have a little face time. He had his daughter helping and they leashes all the pups up and carried them to the house. He carried the cage coon a ways and turned it loose, watching where it ran to. He then went and turned the puppies loose on it. He said the beagle jumped in with them and he said they sounded good on track. They tracked it off the hill and then they shut up(when they found the tree/trail ended I figure). Then they did what you expect from puppies, they started trying to run the track back the other ways. Todd Essex down in the woods and was looking at the area where the garmin said the tracks stopped. He said here come the pups again, nose on the ground, and ran straight up to a tree. Said when they got to the tree, Lucky likes up and barked once and Phoenix went back to trying to run track.

I realize all of this stuff might not be the textbook way to handling these situations, but it beats the heck out of them sitting in a pen. I feel very fortunate to have Todd helping me with these puppies. I feel like the puppies are fortunate to have a place they can run loose for a large part of time and learn stuff on their own. I remember back to when I was working with Badger on all of this stuff. I really think these puppies are ahead of where he was on the hunting/treeing part. However, I had messed a lot more with Badger on heel, leading, etc. I haven’t messed with these pups at all on that stuff yet. We are having a lot of fun with these pups. Hope everyone is enjoying following along as we mess with them. Maybe we won’t mess them up, despite our best efforts to.

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Todd had someone give him a cage coon yesterday. Lucky has had all the training he needs with a cage coon, but Phoenix actually hasn’t had one single cage coon exposure. Lucky and Phoenix are both at his place right now. Todd decided to make a drag with the cage coon and see if if the pups could find it. He took it to the middle of a field and made the drag run off into the woods and hung it up in a tree. Then he went back and opened the pups pen. They had not even seen the coon in the cage. He started them across the field and he said they just starting sprinting across the field(playing/racing). Then when they ran across the coon scent trail he said they locked it up nearly doing flip and started trailing the coon. Said they trailed it straight down to the tree. Lucky and Phoenix both treed really well on it. He Took the coon out of the tree and let the pups have a little face time. He had his daughter helping and they leashes all the pups up and carried them to the house. He carried the cage coon a ways and turned it loose, watching where it ran to. He then went and turned the puppies loose on it. He said the beagle jumped in with them and he said they sounded good on track. They tracked it off the hill and then they shut up(when they found the tree/trail ended I figure). Then they did what you expect from puppies, they started trying to run the track back the other ways. Todd Essex down in the woods and was looking at the area where the garmin said the tracks stopped. He said here come the pups again, nose on the ground, and ran straight up to a tree. Said when they got to the tree, Lucky likes up and barked once and Phoenix went back to trying to run track.

I realize all of this stuff might not be the textbook way to handling these situations, but it beats the heck out of them sitting in a pen. I feel very fortunate to have Todd helping me with these puppies. I feel like the puppies are fortunate to have a place they can run loose for a large part of time and learn stuff on their own. I remember back to when I was working with Badger on all of this stuff. I really think these puppies are ahead of where he was on the hunting/treeing part. However, I had messed a lot more with Badger on heel, leading, etc. I haven’t messed with these pups at all on that stuff yet. We are having a lot of fun with these pups. Hope everyone is enjoying following along as we mess with them. Maybe we won’t mess them up, despite our best efforts to.

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Registered: May 2013
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I can picture what there doing. it won't be long and your gonna be be looking up there tree.

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Pic 1&2- Mack and Kate both.

Pic 3- Mack

Pic 4- Kate

Old dogs put one up a tree pretty quick last night. I was very pleased to see the puppies trying to run a track. They did bark just a little at the tree but not much. I shot out and hung it up for them and got a video of them treeing really nice.

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I am enjoying your description of training the pups. You mentioned that they done some "back tracking" on one training outing. I have also experienced that when training young dogs in the past.I had no idea how to break my dog of that bad habit. Do you have some thoughts on the subject. I would like to hear comments from anyone who has succeeded in breaking a dog of taking the backtrack,

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quote:

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Originally posted by John Burns
I am enjoying your description of training the pups. You mentioned that they done some "back tracking" on one training outing. I have also experienced that when training young dogs in the past.I had no idea how to break my dog of that bad habit. Do you have some thoughts on the subject. I would like to hear comments from anyone who has succeeded in breaking a dog of taking the backtrack,

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Thanks for the kind words John. Hope it helps some along the way and I wish more people would speak up with their 2 cents. I was hoping for more input that what I have received so far.

Last edited by After Hours on 01-14-2020 at 02:27 AM

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John- it might be hard to completely understand that paragraph without all the other context in my little booklet I have. I have used this method a couple different time(in its entirety). I actually haven’t experienced the back tracking much. When I have I did exactly as this said. The next time I got them out to run a drag trail I tried to make sure there were absolutely no distractions and also tried to make sure I was a long way away from the house. Ultimately, I have always been able to call the pup back to me and get it back interested in the coon.

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Todd was given another cage coon on Tuesday. So, he had a little training session last night. He carried the coon to the back of a field and turned it loose. Said it took him 10 minutes or so to get back and get pups out, collared and turned loose. Side note: he did mention he got to do some correcting while attempting to put collars on. Anyway- he says the pups just scorched the track. Coon ran good. He said 300 yards. He, of course, didn’t know anything ahead of time about which tree the coon went up or if he was still running. Dogs had not seen coon before he turned it loose.(sorry had to add those details)

Side note: most of the puppies I have seen before will always find the tree and bark a time or two and then go back to hunting, bc they can’t see the coon I presume. Could be other factors including genetics, etc I suppose. And maybe there are puppies elsewhere that don’t respond the way mine have. I am simply trying to state what I have seen out of puppies I messed with in past.

Knowing this info, Todd was trying to stay close to the pups. The prevailing idea here is if you can happen to see the puppies when they smell up a tree and locate and maybe even tree bark a time or two, then you know exactly which tree this happened on and you can look for the coon. If coon is there, you can start heaping on the praise. If you are say, 300 yds away and you don’t get in any hurry, could the pup lose interest by the time you arrive. Even though garmin shows pups was really close to this tree where I see the coon, how do I know that is the tree puppy located on? So Todd is tearing their the woods trying to keep up, and the pups are just to the point now where you ain’t gonna keep up. He is listening the entire time and he hears Lucky locate a tree bark (or change his bark over) for a couple barks. By the time he gets there, of course, puppies are milling around, hunting and what not. He turns light off and waits and sure enough Lucky goes back and rears up on tree and barks some. Not blowing the tree down or anything, but enough that Todd feels Confident that is the tree he smells the coon on. Todd shines tree and there sets the coon. He leashes up Lucky and Phoenix and heaps on the praise. According to his account, Lucky did not say as much on the track as Phoenix(by a long shot) and Phoenix wasn’t quite as interested in treeing. He said Phoenix did tree some but not as intense about it as Lucky. All in all, it sounded like a perfectly fine training to me. Small progress each time adds up to big improvements I suppose.

I am always glad to get past he making drag phases and keeping the coon in the cage phases. I always feel like I am borderline giving dogs too many easy exposures. I feel like I am close to being ready to swap some puppies around again.

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Registered: Aug 2004
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It sounds like y'all have come quite aways in only 2 1/2 months.

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When do you think it might be appropriate to shoot coon out for pups? Do you think it would help pups associate gunshot with successful conclusion? In other words, complete the circle in the puppies mind-running trail till critter goes up tree, pup barks treed, hunter comes to tree, praises pups,shoots, coon falls out and pup gets rewarded by getting praised more while biting on dead coon. Pup gets idea of what it is supposed to be doing. Seems to me this was a giant step forward in their training and everything you do in the future will be reinforcement to this lesson.

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quote:

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Originally posted by John Burns
When do you think it might be appropriate to shoot coon out for pups? Do you think it would help pups associate gunshot with successful conclusion? In other words, complete the circle in the puppies mind-running trail till critter goes up tree, pup barks treed, hunter comes to tree, praises pups,shoots, coon falls out and pup gets rewarded by getting praised more while biting on dead coon. Pup gets idea of what it is supposed to be doing. Seems to me this was a giant step forward in their training and everything you do in the future will be reinforcement to this lesson.

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Don’t have any pictures to post but had a little training exercise last night. Neighbor caught a coon so I turned it loose for the pups here at the house. Coon was a very hard running coon. He took off Like an Olympic sprinter. I did not let the puppies see him before I turned him loose. Just wanted to really test them. I went back to house and got them. They sure sounded good when they hit the track and got it started. They did about what you should expect of pups that have had their limited exposure. They made a couple loses and creeks and wet spots and such but they stayed with the track and mostly kept moving it in the right direction(I guess I am assuming they were on the same track the entire time). 800 yds later, they found what I suspect was the end of the track, but never could figure out which tree he was in. I tried to shine around and find him myself just to prove to Myself whether or not they were actually still on his track, but I never could find him. Needle in a haystack at that point. After some refection today, I am confident it was the same track the entire way. It was a good exercise for these pups. It showed me I need to work them on a track quite a bit more. Sometimes we get a little
Ahead of ourselves I guess.

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Dang- days go slow, time moves fast. Been nearly a month since I have made a post to this thread. We have been really busy and the weather here has been awful wet. But that’s just sorry excuses for being lazy on the hunting/training. Went hunting with Mack and Kate and Badger last Tuesday night. Made a tree right off the bat and puppies tried to tree a little bit. Middle of a pine thicket. On a hard wood tree but couldn’t find the coon. One branch of the tree ran into a pine tree. I felt like Badger missed the coon. Walking away from tree turned around and saw the coon in the pine tree. I don’t know if crosses out or Badger picked wrong tree. Fairly uneventful after this. Puppies ran a armadillo into a hole and Badger got lost by himself and had a coon.

Saturday night, took Kate and Badger and went to Todd’s to hunt with Lucky and Phoenix. Really
Impressed with how well Lucky hunted. Took us awhile to get on a coon but he stayed glued to Badger most of that time and was at the tree when we walked in. We could hear him treeing a little before we started walking in but by time we got there he was milling around. Made another turnout that didn’t result in any trees.

I guess that’s what should be expected when haven’t hunted since mid January.

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Registered: Aug 2004
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Have y'all given up on those pups already?

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We are still fired up with the pups. Have hit a few bumps in the road. I hunted Mack and Kate with Badger first part of last week. Turned them all loose and BAM, they all struck right in and ran a hot track. Took it 250 yds and blew up treed. The pups lost interest before I could get there. They were milling around. Still was better than the hunt prior to that. They hunted good the remainder of this particular night but Badger got away from them and got treed and shut them out. They are learning several lessons as we travel down this path...lead, be quiet in dog box, be quiet in kennel, armadillos have hard shells, etc.

2 of the puppies are getting ready to start a little more intense training regimen hopefully. Lucky is back at my house. Todd still has Phoenix at his place. He called yesterday and said he turned her loose the other evening and about the time he went to bed he heard her ripping the bark off a tree. He said he went to the tree. Phoenix quit treeing and came and met him for a split second and he said she ran right back into the tree and went back to singing a song. He walked on in to the tree and found a possum. Oh well. They gotta learn somehow I guess.

I will try to do a little better job posting updates. With the time change and later darkness it will become slightly more challenging for me to hunt. I am fixing to gear up and get some feeders set up to hunt Lucky on to help make good use of the time I actually get to hunt.

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Anymore updates on these young hounds? Sure would like to know what is going on with them.

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Unfortunately, farm chores and the JOB have kept me from putting too much time into these pups lately. We are still plugging along at a very slow pace. I took Lucky with an older hound a couple weeks ago, maybe 3 weeks ago now, and Lucky got treed by himself ahead of the older hound. Now, I think he probably treed on the back end of the track bc I saw 2 coins sitting up on around the creek. But in all fairness I could not possibly shine the tree thoroughly at all due to surrounding brush/trees. A neighbor had a kitten caught yesterday and last night I turned it loose for Lucky and then took him and turned him loose. When I turned the kitten loose I watched him for awhile and I saw him run into a skunk in the field before he hit the woods. I figured Lucky would run into the skunk also but somehow he avoided the skunk and treed the kitten. Nothing to brag about, but it made me feel better since I haven’t been able to devote much time to him lately. Gotta get motivated and start hitting the woods. Fall will be here before we know it.

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Registered: Nov 2015
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They gators are spawned all out here little baby gators everywhere . We went from gigging and I was able to scoop one up in the net . Mean lil sucker I tell ya . Figured he was perfect though I brought him right home and put him in the pen with my pup . They already had 2 good scuffles and they fight over the food bowl . So defensive and pressure training is almost done .

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I like reading this thread it's very insightful on how to train pups and I enjoy seeing how these pups are progressing. Thanks for posting and keep us updated when possible.

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