Registered: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 406

Who are they??? You start talking in riddles and rhymes and I can't follow you...

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Clint Burger is hunting Cock Ur Pistol. I heard that his cast had a 4 way split with all four dogs having a coon and they did a lot of walking. So the dog with first strike won.

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Registered: Dec 2012
Location:
Posts: 131

I will start out by saying I don't have near the experience most of you have. But I can tell you that I drew out with dog by the name of Dee in Claremore Okla. Got struck quick. Got treed quick. Dogs stayed split treed all night and the strike points stayed at 25 all night . Was very eye opening for a ukc hunter. Found out later that the dog was wch 3 Dee.

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

I have drew and hunted with those dogs mentioned above..as well as Shot...Woody 2...meltdown..and several more..we drew the con x dog in the nationals this yr..any of them can be beat..and there are red dogs that can get the job done..every dog has its nights..when you have million dollar pockets behind them and are able to push them anywhere anytime and handlers that hunt for a living it makes a difference...i dont think we have ever been out dogged..and had a chance to win about everytime...I think i have a young dog right now that can compete at any level..with that said he really has not been tested..i dont have a clue how he would respond to fang pressure he hasnt met that test that i know of...he most generally is by hiself..but i do believe there are red dogs that can win at any level...i learned a long time ago nobody will hunt another mans dog in a hunt or training and give it the chance they will give there own...they tend to want to look for faults so they can talk another mans dog down..they just wont give them the same oppurtunity they will give there own period.....so here we are right where we have always been...BEHIND

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Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

Imho where most of the redbones fall short is speed, which for me is drive, not hunt or heart. Hunt and heart are different categories. Hunt is how far they're willing to go to find a track. Heart is when the dog gets hurt ( sprain or cut pad so its on 3 legs) but still hunts hard to please you. Speed is what makes a huge difference.

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Speed, that is what Jared is talking about on his measuring stick post. There are quite a few Redbones with plenty of hunt and independance but now they need some more speed. But as with everything there is a trade off. Usually when you get "speed" you also get wild and crazy.

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Registered: Jun 2009
Location: West Central Indiana
Posts: 1318

I have dogs with alot of HUNT or they wouldnt be in my kennel. All my dogs have a no return policy. They better go until they find someting or come out on the next road to pick them up. The complaint I've always had is the "Natural want to speed" to get to the next tree in a hurry especially after a recut in the woods. I,ve always been as honest as they come when people ask me what I would have changed about Boone or most of the redbones I have hunted with is the speed to get treed with a coon after a recut. Most of the young walkers I hunted with over SS's week was retreed ALONE within 10 to 20 mins and under a coon or a den . Some were 200 yards others were 800 to 1000 yards.

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Jared Hutcheson
Indiana
Redbones:
GRNTCH PKC Ch PR Hutch's Big Walnut Boone HTX DNA-V(Haze X Reba)-
2 Time UKC World Top 100
UKC World Top 20 (13th)
UKC Purina Redbone of the year
PKC Redbone CH
UKC Top Producers List
UKC Winter Classic High Scoring Redbone
Co owned with Richard Lambert

GrNtCh PKC Ch One Chance Fancy- (Boone X Toadie)
2018 Autumn Oaks Grand 16
2018 Grand National Redbone
2018 Redbones Days RQE 1st Place

Walkers-
NTCh PKC CH Jeb’s Finley River Peanut- Co owned with Bishop Stallcop
Claremont PKC Legacy hunt Final 4
PKC Breeders Showcase Final 4

Last edited by jkhutch on 04-18-2018 at 04:18 PM

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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

SPEED, HIDRIVE, HUNT, HEART GO HUNT WITH COWBOY SIMPSON IN THIN COON

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HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Are you saying that Roy Rogers Simpson, the King of the Cowboys is wild and crazy?

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Registered: May 2010
Location: kentucky
Posts: 157

quote:

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[i]Originally posted by Larry D Walker so here we are right where we have always been...BEHIND [/B]

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John Wilson

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

What I'm getting at and I think some of these guys are saying to is, if you're planning on being able to compete at the top of this game not the local side, you better bring speed into it. Just like Jerrod was saying 10-20 minutes after being re-cut the dog better be under another one parked n treed in. I have no idea where to go for this type of speed.

I agree Richard the more speed you'll have the more wild n crazy they seem to get. But would you rather be in a race with an actual race car or a power wheels from Wal-Mart?

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Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

At my age, I am a power wheels from Wal Mart kinda guy.

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
At my age, I am a power wheels from Wal Mart kinda guy.

---

__________________
Eric DePue
Hill Country Kennels Itty-Bitty
PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Registered: May 2005
Location: oklahoma
Posts: 5035

quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Are you saying that Roy Rogers Simpson, the King of the Cowboys is wild and crazy?

---

__________________
HOME OF 2010 HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE, DUAL CH Y2KD, #7 REPRODUCING RED FEMALE
NT.Ch. WINNER AT REDBONE SEC. 2008
3RD PL. NT.CH. 2009 BATTLE OF BREEDS AT ADA OKLA.
4TH PLACE R.Q.E 2010
2ND PLACE OVERALL AT ZONE 4 AND DOUBLE CAST WINNER 2010
WENT TO 2010 WORLD HUNT
AMERICAN REDBONE ASSOCIATION HIGH SCOREING REDBONE FEMALE OF THE 2010 WORLD HUNT
OVERALL HI SCOREING DOG AT 2010 BBCHA BLUE TIC SECTIONAL
GR.NT.CH. AT 12 and A HALF
MADE-EM SEE RED

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Marshfield, MO
Posts: 1187

It's been a couple years how has everyone progressed?

We have one that has alot of tools but alone sometimes he likes to mess around other times he's all business. Put anything in with him and it's business. He will be 2 next month. Here's a text from report from last night. Just copy and pasted it.

He had a coon both drops
First drop was a long one
Second 200 yards in 5 min hooked with the meat...
He tried he normal BS lol
Bumped him back switched his ass one time told him to get, He got it done after that perfect... He wanted to sneak back and run on the road...

Hope everyone is getting the speed and drive.

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Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

I have been working on it.....

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Marshfield, MO
Posts: 1187

Whatcha got cooking

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Justin Coffel

The will to win is not nearly as important as the will to prepare to win. Everyone wants to win but not everyone wants to prepare to win." - Bobby Knight

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

"Balance" high drive with intelligence, desire without being crazy. Big Wheel from Wal Mart with a Chevrolet LS motor. I might not win a lot of races but I will always have fun competing.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 05-26-2020 at 01:34 PM

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Registered: Nov 2015
Location: st. augustine Fl
Posts: 311

I believe I got more then I bargained for . And then doubled it up to punish myself .

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Work hard hunt harder .
9042195035

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Registered: Mar 2007
Location: NJ
Posts: 406

Guess you boys never have heard that a good competition dog is not fun to hunt. They will put you in places you did not know existed. Richard you gettin older now better take some of that S.S. money and hire a handler. Ha.

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Registered: Nov 2015
Location: st. augustine Fl
Posts: 311

That's what I been pushing for lots of drive . I don't mind the walking it's the getting in the swamps with gators I worry about . You know they only eat the good one's . This time of year I gotta tote a switch when walking the canals to pop them on the nose with to make em move on .

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Work hard hunt harder .
9042195035

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Registered: Nov 2015
Location: st. augustine Fl
Posts: 311

That's what I been pushing for lots of drive . I don't mind the walking it's the getting in the swamps with gators I worry about . You know they only eat the good one's . This time of year I gotta tote a switch when walking the canals to pop them on the nose with to make em move on .

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Work hard hunt harder .
9042195035

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Registered: May 2020
Location:
Posts: 321

quote:

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Originally posted by Hoosier Outlaw
do you think walkers have the patent on those traits that allow them to win like they do?
Those traits are in every breed...but have not been concentrated to the same high levels and in the same combinations in other breeds as they have in walkers with the specific purpose of winning competition hunts.
Any breed can accomplish what they have ...IF....there are enough breeders who are dead serious about targeting specific traits and breeding for those as a top priority.
As you and others have always been so quick to point out...all breeds are mixed and go back to the same foundation hounds a few hundred years back. So what separated one breed from another? Some say only color...but I think it was the early breeders who bred for specific traits that differed from other breeds. Maybe color was one of them...but because different breeds show distinctly different "other traits" that can't be seen on the outside....ability traits, I believe the early breeders identified things they liked or didn't like and specifically bred for those things. Competition traits are probably a relatively new goal for breeders of hounds in the 300 plus years that men have actually been breeding trailing and treeing hounds. Before competition hunts it was probably more about having the game at the end of the chase than independence or first strike or first tree.
But.... in the past 60 to 70 years since competition hunts started and grew in popularity...many breeders (Not all breeders) have bred for traits that are needed for a dog to win according to established nite hunt rules.
And I submit to you that once that started....the breeders in some breeds have done a much better job and had much more success at concentrating those com petition traits in their breed of choice than other breeds have.
Personally I believe that breeds who were not so stuck on a particular color or outside appearance got a big jump on the other breeds because their breed standards were so wide open on color that they didn't have to consider that when making crosses and focused solely on performance and ability needed to win according to nite hunt rules.
I wasn't there at the beginning of this...but when I started hunting in the mid 80's I can tell you there were certain breeders in the walker breed like Lee Logan who didn't care how ugly their dogs were....all that mattered was if they could beat the dogs they drew in competition....and boy oh boy has a lot of ugly walkers won lots of world hunts and millions of dollars since then.
Walkers started with and still posses the same foundation hound genes that Redbones had....but walker breeders bred their dogs differently with different specific goals in mind and those goals were driven by competition hunt rules....not pleasure hunter or show dog goals.
Now they have a big jump on us in concentrating those specific abilities and traits it takes to win....but that doesn't mean we can't do the same thing....and keep some of the other things that makes Redbones unique. We don't have to breed for a red walker....we can breed for a Redbone that can beat walkers.

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Ridgerunner1988

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