Registered: Nov 2008
Location: sunflower, ms.
Posts: 333

I would like to see non hunting judges used at the finals with a little change. Let the judge make all the normal decisions that a judge has to make, the change being in any situation that calls for a majority vote using a hunting judge then the cast should be allowed to vote. Example: scoring of a tree. This simple change would eliminate a lot of questions about the honesty of a non hunting judge.I believe it would be extremely hard to find enough QUALIFIED non hunting judges to use at the zones.

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Registered: Aug 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 403

The rules are fine, written in black and white. To many likes to bend them into there favor or try to take a vote on what it states, which should not be done. What is wrong in my opinion is the integrity of the houndsman. If more people hold their dog at a higher standard and call it the way it is, We as a whole would have better hounds on our leash.

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Registered: Mar 2005
Location: Thomaston,GA
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I can honestly say BY FAR the worst judge I've ever had was in the first round of the World finals in 2012. He had no clue, and there was nothing the cast could do. 3 out of 4 were trying to correct him and showed him on the back of the card where he was wrong and he wouldn't budge.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Non huntin judge plusses a coon for me one night I didn't see and when I started over to him. He left the spot and said. You ain't gotta see it lol. I'm fairly certain was no coon there. Same judge made me mad on late round. I want say what I told him but it went down hill in a hurry. He finally got slap rid of me. My fault though. I should of questioned him.

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
Posts: 312

Hunt with the leaves off, leave no question as to what's up there. I've never understood why the world hunt is held with the leaves still on, it makes for a lot of variables in a high stakes hunt.

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Preston Chadwell
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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Iowa
Posts: 363

Most Northern states are froze under by the time the leaves fall off. Witch is middle of Nov..

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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: Baileyton, TN
Posts: 312

Frozen ground.......sounds like a proving ground for a coondog to me, but back to the main point if there are no leaves it's pretty plain for everyone to see what's in the tree. There are alot of men that will lie if they think they can get away with it, but few men are big/mean enough to lie straight to the faces of 3 other grown men with no way out of it especially in the middle of nowhere with alot on the line. That'd get ya tore up by these boys around here

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Preston Chadwell
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Registered: Jul 2013
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Posts: 536

quote:

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Originally posted by Craig Edwards
Wouldn't it be better to have a hunt, of this caliber, when the leaves are OFF the trees???? Wouldn't that solve some of the issues, with the system as it is?

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Glenwood, Ark
Posts: 207

quote:

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Originally posted by Craig Edwards
Wouldn't it be better to have a hunt, of this caliber, when the leaves are OFF the trees???? Wouldn't that solve some of the issues, with the system as it is?

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

quote:

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Originally posted by bluetick250
Let's be able to take a panel to the woods in the big hunts anybody that has hunted other kc knows panel would of been brought out or this would never happened

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Registered: Jan 2007
Location: Bayou Pigeon
Posts: 390

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Johnson
..give me a non-hunting judge that I can question and then take back to an MOH and take my chances there. my odds of winning the question are greatly improved. one on one with moh. have about a fifty percent chance of winning. with a panel, I have about a 66 2/3 percent chance of losing. I guess I like the odds better with option 1.

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How do you question a tree scoring situation with a non-hunting judge? There was another post a couple days ago asking this and I never did see an answer?

Here's what MOH is going to say "Well I have to go with the judge"

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 898

quote:

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Originally posted by Robert Johnson
panels? not me. I don't have enough money to play that game. I have also hunted in the other registries, and panels are not always impartial. in fact they can be down right worst cheaters ever on them at times. nope..give me a non-hunting judge that I can question and then take back to an MOH and take my chances there. my odds of winning the question are greatly improved. one on one with moh. have about a fifty percent chance of winning. with a panel, I have about a 66 2/3 percent chance of losing. I guess I like the odds better with option 1.

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Registered: May 2008
Location: mn
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Steve I think they are worried about not being able to plus possums for there buddies

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Brandon

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
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quote:

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Originally posted by Ryan J
Most Northern states are froze under by the time the leaves fall off. Witch is middle of Nov..

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Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Perrinton, Michigan
Posts: 632

I agree about when leaves are off , but also agree with the gentleman that talked about all the other hunting (deer) that goes on and harder to get permission on private.

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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Pike county, ky
Posts: 867

Or non hunting guide with two non hunting judges. When I won with jane I think there was two on Friday night. I've had excellent judges ok judges and plain out punk of judges. So jack I don't know if there's a correct answer. If you have hunting judges than if he draws out two freinds or people he knows than bad things can happen. Or if someone gets mad at person leading cast they team up and minus him. I know one thing I think would help. Just have a judge turn his I phone on record I bet people would act a whole lot nicer lol

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: North GA
Posts: 14395

Just so yall know. A cheating judge could see a coon still. Leaves or no leaves.

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Michael Ghorley

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 629

The final 4 should have 3 non-hunting judges. One could be the main judge and the other 2 would only be used if a question was raised as to how or why the main judge made a call. The 3 judges would remain with the cast during the entire hunt. The 3 could be drawed from all the judges that are at the UKC finals.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Iowa
Posts: 383

Jack I disagree with hunting judges, no the best aren't always hunting, in our zone at Legrand, Ia. there are several people that didn't get thru, that would be Quality judges in the finals, that have the right skills and integrity that could not be influenced by anyone. Just to name a few off the top of my head Daryl Reiter, Matt Kiehn, Todd Felderman and myself , and there are many more from the other zones that have the same abilities, all Ukc has to do and the host club is get in touch with these caliber of judges and problem solved.

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1099

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Pullen
If you in a 4 dog cast and 3 dogs are on the tree and yours isn't and the tree is big as your wrist and not a leaf on it . They vote circle ..... Ha I'll take my chances with non hunting judge .

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Central Michigan
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Now, first of all, I don't believe there are as many bad cast as many think. That said, I have never understood why nearly everyone likes the idea of non hunting judges. I have been cheated much worse by non hunting judges than I have hunting judges.

I asked one non hunting judge how he slept at night. His response was "I have no problems sleeping at night." That is when I figured out cheaters have no conscience.

My problem with non hunting judges is the handlers have absolutely no recourse. Yes you can question it, but no MOH is going to reverse a non hunting judge decision. I have seen a MOH side with non hunting judge after taking testimony from 2 handlers of 3 that returned to the club. The completely incorrect and false call favored the 3rd handler.

Odd part of this conversation is I have been a non hunting judge every time I have been asked (many many times), and I still don't prefer to have one.

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Registered: Feb 2009
Location: Anna, TX
Posts: 898

quote:

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Originally posted by Larry Atherton
Now, first of all, I don't believe there are as many bad cast as many think. That said, I have never understood why nearly everyone likes the idea of non hunting judges. I have been cheated much worse by non hunting judges than I have hunting judges.

I asked one non hunting judge how he slept at night. His response was "I have no problems sleeping at night." That is when I figured out cheaters have no conscience.

My problem with non hunting judges is the handlers have absolutely no recourse. Yes you can question it, but no MOH is going to reverse a non hunting judge decision. I have seen a MOH side with non hunting judge after taking testimony from 2 handlers of 3 that returned to the club. The completely incorrect and false call favored the 3rd handler.

Odd part of this conversation is I have been a non hunting judge every time I have been asked (many many times), and I still don't prefer to have one.

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