Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Senath mo
Posts: 101

Whats the deal with chocalate and tan pups my male dog throwed a litter with one in it but i never heard of one?????

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*****LITTLE RIVER BLACK AND TANS*****.

(RIP)--"NITECH Little River Fog"---(GrNtCh GrCh Little River Rex HTX) X (Little River Northern Mist) (Northern Nights Still Foggy's daughter)---co-owned with Paul Langdon
(RIP)--"Little River Kansas Dolly"--(WldNtCh GrNtCh J&R
Northern Buck II) X (GrNtCh Bauer's Kansas Stender)--co-owned with Paul Langdon
--"PR.LITTLE RIVER ELLIE"--(GrNiteCH BLACK RIVER BUDDY) X ( PR.LILLY'S CREEK BLACK BETTY)--
Trent Martin
Senath MO.
(573)-344-4560

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Walnut ms
Posts: 473

When u line breed tight on buck r slammer u can get that I've had one r 2 like that before and I didn't reg off Color but rest of that litter done really good

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Senath mo
Posts: 101

Do u remember how the off colored ones did?

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*****LITTLE RIVER BLACK AND TANS*****.

(RIP)--"NITECH Little River Fog"---(GrNtCh GrCh Little River Rex HTX) X (Little River Northern Mist) (Northern Nights Still Foggy's daughter)---co-owned with Paul Langdon
(RIP)--"Little River Kansas Dolly"--(WldNtCh GrNtCh J&R
Northern Buck II) X (GrNtCh Bauer's Kansas Stender)--co-owned with Paul Langdon
--"PR.LITTLE RIVER ELLIE"--(GrNiteCH BLACK RIVER BUDDY) X ( PR.LILLY'S CREEK BLACK BETTY)--
Trent Martin
Senath MO.
(573)-344-4560

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 450

This tends to happen in black and tans, doberman and rottweiler. I've had several pups born like that. There is a guy that raises chocolate and tan pups. It's just that the recessive gene came out

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615-504-9118

GR CH GRNTCH GREEN'S ROUGH RIVER KY FANCY
PKC CH GRNTCH COBLE'S INDIANA BLK TRACY
NTCH GILLUM'S KY RIVER QUEEN
PKC CH GRNTCH COBLE AND STOCKING STINGER
BLACKLAND BABE

Last edited by CHERRY VALLEY on 03-08-2015 at 03:35 PM

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Registered: Jan 2010
Location: Oklahoma
Posts: 361

They do as good as the rest of the litter.

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Sheridan, AR.
Posts: 945

I did some research on this Trent, as I have had two litters, one with 4 brown, and one with one brown.
This is actually a good indicator that both the sire and dam have the same quality genes,and that the brown show the recessive genes as previously mentioned, which when this shows the recessive genes as indication to the same dominant genes.
The sire has for example AB AA etc...
The dam has the same AB AA etc..
It is called or defined as "SIMPLE DOMINANCE''

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NITE CH GRCH. TIM'S HURRICANE CREEK DOZER HTX DNA-P (GrndSireBTTBCane)
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CH. HURRICANE STORMIN LUCY LOU (Sire Ike) (Half Owner Jason & Joey of Hurricane Creek B&T Kennel II)
CH HURRICANE ATNITE BIG HOWLER (My 5th generation son!) (Sire Hurricane HawkGone) (GrandSire Dozer)
GR CH 3 IKE'S BLACK JOE (Sire- GrNiteChGrCh Cooper's Stormin Ike)
CH.HURRICANE CREEK ROGUE ONE (Sire Howler, Grand Sire HawkGone)
LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK RAE (sire Howler, grand sire HawkGone)
BLACKBURNS BEE (Sire Blackburns Snuffy II)(Half Owner with Jon Kibler)
NEW HOUNDS IN THE KENNEL;
HURRICANE HARLEM'S HARLO (Sire Harlem)
HURRICANE KIBLER'S ANNIE (Sire 6 gun Albert)

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Senath mo
Posts: 101

Thanks for info Larry!!!!!

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*****LITTLE RIVER BLACK AND TANS*****.

(RIP)--"NITECH Little River Fog"---(GrNtCh GrCh Little River Rex HTX) X (Little River Northern Mist) (Northern Nights Still Foggy's daughter)---co-owned with Paul Langdon
(RIP)--"Little River Kansas Dolly"--(WldNtCh GrNtCh J&R
Northern Buck II) X (GrNtCh Bauer's Kansas Stender)--co-owned with Paul Langdon
--"PR.LITTLE RIVER ELLIE"--(GrNiteCH BLACK RIVER BUDDY) X ( PR.LILLY'S CREEK BLACK BETTY)--
Trent Martin
Senath MO.
(573)-344-4560

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Sheridan, AR.
Posts: 945

I wanna add; IMO, depending on how you want to look at it. When this happens you get the bad traits and the good traits basically copied from past generations. So you really havnt culled or bred away from some of the same bad genes of past(you really havnt changed anything). But you get pc.s of the good too.
I always say to some extent that we are breeding in circles. And most everyone has about the same thing in their kennel. just their version of the same, but every dog is his own, just as people are.
A part of the reason UKC decided on X-breed. In reality if you want to improve the breed as defined by beating the competition.
You cant cross to another breed to be a cut above same breed by defintion.
Not in this world by God's design you couldnt do this, but a true improvement would be that you would have to breed to another animal. A cougar, a hog, a rhino etc....
Now I say again this is just my opinions, but I am not close minded by saying this, but there are still ways of improving on what we already have. Sometimes that superstar is born randomly no matter how hard you try. (Might be tied up behind someones barn) You just get lucky sometimes.
Fire aWay!
Larry

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NITE CH GRCH. TIM'S HURRICANE CREEK DOZER HTX DNA-P (GrndSireBTTBCane)
NITE CH. LARRY'S HURRICANE HAWKGONE DNA-P (BTTB BlackHawk) 2018-2019 PERFORMANCE SIRE
CH. HURRICANE STORMIN LUCY LOU (Sire Ike) (Half Owner Jason & Joey of Hurricane Creek B&T Kennel II)
CH HURRICANE ATNITE BIG HOWLER (My 5th generation son!) (Sire Hurricane HawkGone) (GrandSire Dozer)
GR CH 3 IKE'S BLACK JOE (Sire- GrNiteChGrCh Cooper's Stormin Ike)
CH.HURRICANE CREEK ROGUE ONE (Sire Howler, Grand Sire HawkGone)
LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK RAE (sire Howler, grand sire HawkGone)
BLACKBURNS BEE (Sire Blackburns Snuffy II)(Half Owner with Jon Kibler)
NEW HOUNDS IN THE KENNEL;
HURRICANE HARLEM'S HARLO (Sire Harlem)
HURRICANE KIBLER'S ANNIE (Sire 6 gun Albert)

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Senath mo
Posts: 101

I completely agree and understand what u mean larry thanks

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*****LITTLE RIVER BLACK AND TANS*****.

(RIP)--"NITECH Little River Fog"---(GrNtCh GrCh Little River Rex HTX) X (Little River Northern Mist) (Northern Nights Still Foggy's daughter)---co-owned with Paul Langdon
(RIP)--"Little River Kansas Dolly"--(WldNtCh GrNtCh J&R
Northern Buck II) X (GrNtCh Bauer's Kansas Stender)--co-owned with Paul Langdon
--"PR.LITTLE RIVER ELLIE"--(GrNiteCH BLACK RIVER BUDDY) X ( PR.LILLY'S CREEK BLACK BETTY)--
Trent Martin
Senath MO.
(573)-344-4560

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Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Mulberry AR
Posts: 167

Can we see a pick. I've never seen a chocolate b&t.

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Dustin Joslin

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Sheridan, AR.
Posts: 945

arkie boy, Im computer challenged not sure I could post pic here,but give me your phne # and I can text you a pic.

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LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK CHAMPION BLACK & TANS KENNEL
Home of :

NITE CH GRCH. TIM'S HURRICANE CREEK DOZER HTX DNA-P (GrndSireBTTBCane)
NITE CH. LARRY'S HURRICANE HAWKGONE DNA-P (BTTB BlackHawk) 2018-2019 PERFORMANCE SIRE
CH. HURRICANE STORMIN LUCY LOU (Sire Ike) (Half Owner Jason & Joey of Hurricane Creek B&T Kennel II)
CH HURRICANE ATNITE BIG HOWLER (My 5th generation son!) (Sire Hurricane HawkGone) (GrandSire Dozer)
GR CH 3 IKE'S BLACK JOE (Sire- GrNiteChGrCh Cooper's Stormin Ike)
CH.HURRICANE CREEK ROGUE ONE (Sire Howler, Grand Sire HawkGone)
LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK RAE (sire Howler, grand sire HawkGone)
BLACKBURNS BEE (Sire Blackburns Snuffy II)(Half Owner with Jon Kibler)
NEW HOUNDS IN THE KENNEL;
HURRICANE HARLEM'S HARLO (Sire Harlem)
HURRICANE KIBLER'S ANNIE (Sire 6 gun Albert)

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Senath mo
Posts: 101

http://i1367.photobucket.com/albums...zpsrorjdfiy.jpg

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*****LITTLE RIVER BLACK AND TANS*****.

(RIP)--"NITECH Little River Fog"---(GrNtCh GrCh Little River Rex HTX) X (Little River Northern Mist) (Northern Nights Still Foggy's daughter)---co-owned with Paul Langdon
(RIP)--"Little River Kansas Dolly"--(WldNtCh GrNtCh J&R
Northern Buck II) X (GrNtCh Bauer's Kansas Stender)--co-owned with Paul Langdon
--"PR.LITTLE RIVER ELLIE"--(GrNiteCH BLACK RIVER BUDDY) X ( PR.LILLY'S CREEK BLACK BETTY)--
Trent Martin
Senath MO.
(573)-344-4560

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Registered: Mar 2012
Location: Mulberry AR
Posts: 167

I think its pretty cool.

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Dustin Joslin

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Registered: Mar 2009
Location: TN
Posts: 450

Which pup is chocolate I didn't see one

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CODY EVANS
615-504-9118

GR CH GRNTCH GREEN'S ROUGH RIVER KY FANCY
PKC CH GRNTCH COBLE'S INDIANA BLK TRACY
NTCH GILLUM'S KY RIVER QUEEN
PKC CH GRNTCH COBLE AND STOCKING STINGER
BLACKLAND BABE

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

The one on the right.

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

I had a buddy who had one. The female was a litter mate to Hobie and the stud was hobo's hoss. It was one of the most awesome looking male dogs. He was built great, but he didn't live past a year old for some reason.

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Registered: Apr 2013
Location: Senath mo
Posts: 101

Yep on the right

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*****LITTLE RIVER BLACK AND TANS*****.

(RIP)--"NITECH Little River Fog"---(GrNtCh GrCh Little River Rex HTX) X (Little River Northern Mist) (Northern Nights Still Foggy's daughter)---co-owned with Paul Langdon
(RIP)--"Little River Kansas Dolly"--(WldNtCh GrNtCh J&R
Northern Buck II) X (GrNtCh Bauer's Kansas Stender)--co-owned with Paul Langdon
--"PR.LITTLE RIVER ELLIE"--(GrNiteCH BLACK RIVER BUDDY) X ( PR.LILLY'S CREEK BLACK BETTY)--
Trent Martin
Senath MO.
(573)-344-4560

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Registered: Jan 2015
Location: Marston Mo.
Posts: 78

I raised a litter a few years ago that had 3 of 9 pups were chocolate they are good looking dogs. Just as good as the others. If you google rexsblackdogkennel.com you will see 4 generations.

Last edited by ROBERT HAYES on 03-10-2015 at 02:07 PM

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Sheridan, AR.
Posts: 945

The first litter out of my LudaBell X Dozer had four that were brown(choclate). Two of the males went to a man in Benton the third a family from Magnolia. The only female in the litter was brown, and she went to an old man in either Crosset or Camden(cant remember where he's from exactly). He is a great Uncle of a friend of mine and my friend said that he had the little female treeing coon on her own at four months old.
It really set me back on my breeding program as at that time I was not able to even x-breed register these pups. And her being the only female closed the door on breeding plans, female wise on that cross.
Now I am at a point I'm on the edge of loosing what is behind Dozer if I dont get him bred soon to a female. He is performance Sired and those that have hunted with him know he is the real deal in the woods. With a nice bawl mouth and the hustle everyone is looking for.
I'm to the point I will stud him for free if someone can bring me a female that is in the right time of her cycle and ready to breed.
Larry

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LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK CHAMPION BLACK & TANS KENNEL
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NITE CH GRCH. TIM'S HURRICANE CREEK DOZER HTX DNA-P (GrndSireBTTBCane)
NITE CH. LARRY'S HURRICANE HAWKGONE DNA-P (BTTB BlackHawk) 2018-2019 PERFORMANCE SIRE
CH. HURRICANE STORMIN LUCY LOU (Sire Ike) (Half Owner Jason & Joey of Hurricane Creek B&T Kennel II)
CH HURRICANE ATNITE BIG HOWLER (My 5th generation son!) (Sire Hurricane HawkGone) (GrandSire Dozer)
GR CH 3 IKE'S BLACK JOE (Sire- GrNiteChGrCh Cooper's Stormin Ike)
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LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK RAE (sire Howler, grand sire HawkGone)
BLACKBURNS BEE (Sire Blackburns Snuffy II)(Half Owner with Jon Kibler)
NEW HOUNDS IN THE KENNEL;
HURRICANE HARLEM'S HARLO (Sire Harlem)
HURRICANE KIBLER'S ANNIE (Sire 6 gun Albert)

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: al
Posts: 739

quote:

---

Originally posted by STROKIN
I had a buddy who had one. The female was a litter mate to Hobie and the stud was hobo's hoss. It was one of the most awesome looking male dogs. He was built great, but he didn't live past a year old for some reason.

---

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

Her name was Johnson's and Stallings Black Bubba. I think it was a throw back to the rambler line. Both dogs go back to it. All the dogs I've had in recent years, except for the pups I have now, went back to Bubba and never saw any of that. The first time I ever saw a chocolate pup was also a rambler bred male dog.

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

From what I've been able to find out, it seems to be a recessive gene meaning both parents have to have the gene to throw it in pups.

Blackland Bare was the sire of some. He was bred to a female called Brandy, out of Chenoweth's Smokey II that was a full sister to my old Ruby female and some of the pups were red & tan. The breeder did some research and he told me there were a few others sired by Bear.

Brandy was also bred to Rocky's Ragin Buck and Myers Hoss and they were all colored right.

I bought Brandy and knew of a nice male not too far from me who was known to throw some pups colored like this. Now that I think about it, he was a grandson of Hobie. So as kind of an experiment I bred Brandy to Luke. Of 5 pups, 3 were red & tan or chocolate & tan. I took some pictures and then culled them, lol.

Funny thing is my Ruby female was a full sister to Brandy but neither Ruby, nor any of her descendants threw any chocolate or reds, that I'm aware of. Doesn't mean they won't, just that they haven't...

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Last edited by John D on 03-11-2015 at 01:52 AM

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Sheridan, AR.
Posts: 945

John,
It's both, both parents have to have the same recessive and dominant genes.
Now process of elimination I can tell you that the LudaBell X Dozer Cross I made with the four brown pups, what dogs were the same on both sides of papers; according to Kenny Singletary on LudaBell's paper way on back is Myer's Bo & Shep. And the same on Dozer's.
There may be some more that are the same. I'd have to research farther.
Larry

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LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK CHAMPION BLACK & TANS KENNEL
Home of :

NITE CH GRCH. TIM'S HURRICANE CREEK DOZER HTX DNA-P (GrndSireBTTBCane)
NITE CH. LARRY'S HURRICANE HAWKGONE DNA-P (BTTB BlackHawk) 2018-2019 PERFORMANCE SIRE
CH. HURRICANE STORMIN LUCY LOU (Sire Ike) (Half Owner Jason & Joey of Hurricane Creek B&T Kennel II)
CH HURRICANE ATNITE BIG HOWLER (My 5th generation son!) (Sire Hurricane HawkGone) (GrandSire Dozer)
GR CH 3 IKE'S BLACK JOE (Sire- GrNiteChGrCh Cooper's Stormin Ike)
CH.HURRICANE CREEK ROGUE ONE (Sire Howler, Grand Sire HawkGone)
LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK RAE (sire Howler, grand sire HawkGone)
BLACKBURNS BEE (Sire Blackburns Snuffy II)(Half Owner with Jon Kibler)
NEW HOUNDS IN THE KENNEL;
HURRICANE HARLEM'S HARLO (Sire Harlem)
HURRICANE KIBLER'S ANNIE (Sire 6 gun Albert)

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Registered: Aug 2010
Location: Sheridan, AR.
Posts: 945

In other words because both parents have the recessive gene that develops the brown they also have dominant genes the same of other positive traits.
In coonhunters or laymens terms; there was probly a curly tailed brown cur dog thrown in the mix cause he could tree the fire outta coons back in the day!

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LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK CHAMPION BLACK & TANS KENNEL
Home of :

NITE CH GRCH. TIM'S HURRICANE CREEK DOZER HTX DNA-P (GrndSireBTTBCane)
NITE CH. LARRY'S HURRICANE HAWKGONE DNA-P (BTTB BlackHawk) 2018-2019 PERFORMANCE SIRE
CH. HURRICANE STORMIN LUCY LOU (Sire Ike) (Half Owner Jason & Joey of Hurricane Creek B&T Kennel II)
CH HURRICANE ATNITE BIG HOWLER (My 5th generation son!) (Sire Hurricane HawkGone) (GrandSire Dozer)
GR CH 3 IKE'S BLACK JOE (Sire- GrNiteChGrCh Cooper's Stormin Ike)
CH.HURRICANE CREEK ROGUE ONE (Sire Howler, Grand Sire HawkGone)
LARRY'S HURRICANE CREEK RAE (sire Howler, grand sire HawkGone)
BLACKBURNS BEE (Sire Blackburns Snuffy II)(Half Owner with Jon Kibler)
NEW HOUNDS IN THE KENNEL;
HURRICANE HARLEM'S HARLO (Sire Harlem)
HURRICANE KIBLER'S ANNIE (Sire 6 gun Albert)

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Registered: Mar 2014
Location: Wichita Falls,Tx
Posts: 453

Had a registered B/T female that was bred to a Registered English dog (not on purpose) she had 3 B/T pups 1 Redbone n 1 chocolate colored pup? Guess it was from B/T side? JesseJ

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