Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 2760

They haven't babbled all night. 40 seconds after being cut loose they are struck, 1 minute and 20 seconds later they open again and get minused? And it's unsportsmanlike to strike a dog before the minute. I dont get it

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Mine go 200 yrds looking for a good place to take a dookie just sayen.



Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6837

quote:

---

Originally posted by sleepy head
They haven't babbled all night. 40 seconds after being cut loose they are struck, 1 minute and 20 seconds later they open again and get minused? And it's unsportsmanlike to strike a dog before the minute. I dont get it

---

__________________
Grand Nite Ch PKC CH(3) Main Street Blueberry Jam(Autumn Oaks Final 4 Grand Nite Ch 2015) UKC world finalist 2017 Ohio State Ch 2018
Grand Nite Ch(4) PKC Silver CH Main Street Blue SS quarterfinalist 2018. Autumn Oaks Grand 16 2018. Senior Showdown semifinalists 2020. UKC top 25 World hunt 2020. PKC quarterfinalist 2020
Grand Nite Ch HOF PKC Silver Ch Heatseaker Unleash the Kraken(Grand at 15 months old) BBOA Overall 1st place X2, Tournament of Champions Finalist, National Bluetic Days overall winner, Autumn Oaks Grand 16x2 PKC SS Semi Finalist PKC State Hunt Final 4 UKC World Top 20
GRNT CH BLUES AMAZING GRACE
Trevor Hack
567-231-7413

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Well if they only used two they had six minutes to spare jmo. Here is the deal when I said I would sneak into a tree to catch an aggressive dog ukc made it plain to me as a hunting judge you get to write down scores listen to your dog and everybody else's and you get a vote if you are out voted tuff you have no recourse on something the moh can't see jmo.



Tar

Last edited by yadkintar on 07-11-2018 at 08:18 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6837

quote:

---

Originally posted by yadkintar
Well if they only used two they had six minutes to spare jmo. Here is the deal when I said I would sneak into a tree to catch an aggressive dog ukc made it plain to me as a hunting judge you get to write down scores listen to your dog and everybody else's and you get a vote if you are out voted tuff you have no recourse on something the moh can't see jmo.



Tar

---

__________________
Grand Nite Ch PKC CH(3) Main Street Blueberry Jam(Autumn Oaks Final 4 Grand Nite Ch 2015) UKC world finalist 2017 Ohio State Ch 2018
Grand Nite Ch(4) PKC Silver CH Main Street Blue SS quarterfinalist 2018. Autumn Oaks Grand 16 2018. Senior Showdown semifinalists 2020. UKC top 25 World hunt 2020. PKC quarterfinalist 2020
Grand Nite Ch HOF PKC Silver Ch Heatseaker Unleash the Kraken(Grand at 15 months old) BBOA Overall 1st place X2, Tournament of Champions Finalist, National Bluetic Days overall winner, Autumn Oaks Grand 16x2 PKC SS Semi Finalist PKC State Hunt Final 4 UKC World Top 20
GRNT CH BLUES AMAZING GRACE
Trevor Hack
567-231-7413

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

---

Originally posted by Hoosier Man1

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

The babbling rule needs to be eliminated.
Other rules are cut and dry.
Whether a dog is babbling is too much an opinionated call.
It is too prone to every individual judges interpretation of what they believe to be babbling that carries the score card from weekend to weekend.
I don't care how many years experience you have or believe yourself to be qualified to be able to think you absolutely know the difference.
IT IS AN IMPOSSIBLE TO CALL CERTAINTY 100 % .
It is not based on any ones qualified ability to factually determine if a dog is indeed babbling or whether the dog in question is just plain out nosing the other dogs. Or is an outstanding winding dog that the other dogs won't open. YES, not even when you see one running with their nose up opening every breath.
I personally witnessed over the years …

dogs with the ability that run with their noses in the air that were absolutely running air current scent not track scent.

dogs that open immediately upon getting scent ,shut up and reopen once they get the track lined out.

dogs that had way better noses then the average and would run the track a few hundred yards or so with the other hotter nosed dogs tagging along until there was enough scent for them to open.

I currently have a dog that has been accused time after time that she babbles.I have been made to turn loose in barren fields more than once to prove otherwise.
She will run tracks 200 yards or more at times before other dogs open with her or never do and at times gets treed with seasoned dogs at the base of a tree acting like stupid green pups.SHE WILL MAKE YOU A BELIEVER on nights you don't think a coon is stirring by getting treed with a coon.

I ask ,how can anyone that has never hunted with a dog know on the first turn out or subsequent ones unless it has indeed exhibited behavior relevant to possible babbling that any dog is absolutely babbling?You don't know my dog.

There are certain give away like a dog that barks all the way to the woods, the whole time they are being unloaded and released,etc.
Beyond that like the above question posed by Trevor. It was stated they never did it on any prior turn outs. I never would have even considered them babbling based on the info provided.

Why is every one so preoccupied about a babbling dog?Are you afraid of them beating you? The rules favor the tree dogs.
We hunt hounds not curs. I want my dog to have a good nose and open quickly.I don't want a lot of the hot nosed stuff being produced. And because guys are hunting dogs that can't smell or keep up to the dogs with good noses they get labeled babblers.
I ask is it okay to minus the innocent as long as we catch a few that are guilty.I think conversely it best be said " better a few guilty go free than to minus the innocent."

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 07-11-2018 at 11:15 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Pat, they do not favor the tree dog over a babbler. 100+75 beats 25+125 all day.

You are right, there are a few dogs that will do what you mentioned and can be accused of babbling, but there are more of them that are actually babbling and their owners think they have a cold nose. We do not have to be 100% to minus a dog. That's why the cast gets to vote on it. As a judge they are asking for my judgment of what a dog is doing. I could be wrong and if I am then call for a vote

__________________
Michael Rosamond
Sunspot Lights
936-827-6309
http://www.sunspotlights.com/
When brightness matters!!

Home Of:
PKC Ch, Grch Grnch 2008 Tx state champion They call me Crazy Betty

PKC SCh CH Grnch They call me Howler too

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Dec 2010
Location: Georgetown, Ohio.
Posts: 1928

You say it was towards the end of the hunt
Let me ask what was the scores at that time of each dog ?
Just curious.

__________________
it's nice to have a tree dog but the name of the game is to have a coon in the tree.
🐕
Doug Terrell
Phone # 937-213-1779

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2005
Location: Southwest Ohio
Posts: 1774

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Terrell
You say it was towards the end of the hunt
Let me ask what was the scores at that time of each dog ?
Just curious.

---

__________________
Home of:
A couple blue haired potlickers

Gone but not forgotten:
Nt Ch Fanny's Midnite Blue Annie - aka Sodie Pop R.I.P. - I will miss you old girl

Nt Ch Becky’s Midnite Blue Hank - R.I.P. Old Boy, thank you for the memories

Gr Nt Ch S&E's Midnite Lite Blue Snow (Co-Owned with my good friend Harry Eidenier) - We had a blast following you ole girl!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

quote:

---

Originally posted by Doug Terrell
You say it was towards the end of the hunt
Let me ask what was the scores at that time of each dog ?
Just curious.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

If you wouldn't have minused after the minute in the exact same situation then you shouldn't minus in the minute. The minute has absolutely nothing to do with it.

Were they babbling or were they drifting a track? Can't tell without being there.

I can tell you as a judge I have minused dogs for babbling way after the minute was up.

If at any time I feel they are babbling I am minusing them.

But if I don't think they are babbling then they won't get minused in the first second either.

I agree it's a tough call, but it is a call that needs to be made.

I for one have always felt it would be much easier without the minute. We didn't have near the babblers with the old rule that we do now. The minute just makes it harder to get the babblers.

__________________
Let's go huntin

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

---

Originally posted by joey
Pat, they do not favor the tree dog over a babbler. 100+75 beats 25+125 all day.

You are right, there are a few dogs that will do what you mentioned and can be accused of babbling, but there are more of them that are actually babbling and their owners think they have a cold nose. We do not have to be 100% to minus a dog. That's why the cast gets to vote on it. As a judge they are asking for my judgment of what a dog is doing. I could be wrong and if I am then call for a vote

---

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 07-12-2018 at 11:57 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Thet should E.


They shoulf adopt AKcs srike rule. Far and away the best. It promotes honesty and. fairness. Its the best.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
Posts: 7076

Thet should E.


They shoulf adopt AKcs srike rule. Far and away the best. It promotes honesty and. fairness. Its the best.

__________________
UKC Nite Champion Stylish Harry's Trixie - 2017 World Hunt Qualified - Owners - Sizemore/Martin
PKC CH/UKC GrNtCh Stylish Kate - 9/12/08 to 9/23/2016 R.I.P - Owners Sizemore/Martin
AKC/UKC NtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jeff 5/2/2000 to 1/22/2012 R.I.P.
AKC/UKC GrNtCh Sizemore's Timber Jam Jessi 12/21/04 to 1/21/2011 R.I.P.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2010
Location:
Posts: 95

Based on what I've experienced in UKC hunts over the years these dogs shouldn't have gotten minus and no matter weather it makes you mad or not sounds really convenient for you to make this call. Now other KC's would have probably minus theses dogs.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 2154

I would hardly consider this to be babbling. Barking once or twice when they hit a track, then drifting out is not babbling. I've seen babblers. They will strike when cut loose, and keep on opening until they hit a track.

The dog I'm hunting now will bark once or twice when she hits a track. Then she drifts out. Next bark may be 200-300 yards away, or it may be a tree bark. I consider her semi-silent, certainly not a babbler.

Several years ago (1993-2007) I had a female that would open once, and only once, on track. She would open one bark when she hit the track. Her second bark would be treed. I considered her to be silent. It seems that you'd call her a babbler.

What your score is, and what another dogs score is, is not a determining factor in whether or not a dog is babbling. The babbling dogs I've seen don't cover that much distance between barks. Most of the more accurate hounds I've seen DO cover distance between barks!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2010
Location:
Posts: 95

honalieh (I would hardly consider this to be babbling. Barking once or twice when they hit a track, then drifting out is not babbling. I've seen babblers. They will strike when cut loose, and keep on opening until they hit a track.)


Could not agree more! If anything the babbling rule in many organizations has had a negative affect on our competition hounds. I see more counterfeit strike dogs that open there mouth when you turn them loose and keep it open till they or another dog actually does strike a real track or tree than I do good honest strike dogs.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1869

quote:

---

Originally posted by JiM
Thet should E.


They shoulf adopt AKcs srike rule. Far and away the best. It promotes honesty and. fairness. Its the best.

---

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2007
Location: gnadenhutten oh
Posts: 1436

One of mine doesn't babble but only barks maybe 5-10 time on a whole track and that's a long one. That being said if he bark I'm striking him because might be my only chance.

__________________
Ntch PR Shivers Rushcreek Shelly-Ntch Perry's Rushcreek OppyXMichells Val(passed)
Grnitech CH Wch PR Shivers Magic Buckeye-Grch Gnitech PR Dillions Smoken Blue MagicXNtch Shivers Rush Creek Shelly(passed)
ChPR Shivers Blue Belle-HoochX Shelly
Nitech Ch PR Shivers Magic Lead-MagicXHooker
Breeder and handler and half owner of Nitech Grch Grwch Grfch PR Rock Acres Brutus HTX sire MagicXShelly
Cali- Ch Wch Grnite Shivers Magic Buckeye x Dual Grand Tuff

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6837

quote:

---

Originally posted by damon shivers
One of mine doesn't babble but only barks maybe 5-10 time on a whole track and that's a long one. That being said if he bark I'm striking him because might be my only chance.

---

__________________
Grand Nite Ch PKC CH(3) Main Street Blueberry Jam(Autumn Oaks Final 4 Grand Nite Ch 2015) UKC world finalist 2017 Ohio State Ch 2018
Grand Nite Ch(4) PKC Silver CH Main Street Blue SS quarterfinalist 2018. Autumn Oaks Grand 16 2018. Senior Showdown semifinalists 2020. UKC top 25 World hunt 2020. PKC quarterfinalist 2020
Grand Nite Ch HOF PKC Silver Ch Heatseaker Unleash the Kraken(Grand at 15 months old) BBOA Overall 1st place X2, Tournament of Champions Finalist, National Bluetic Days overall winner, Autumn Oaks Grand 16x2 PKC SS Semi Finalist PKC State Hunt Final 4 UKC World Top 20
GRNT CH BLUES AMAZING GRACE
Trevor Hack
567-231-7413

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Oct 2010
Location: Ohio
Posts: 6837

quote:

---

Originally posted by honalieh
I would hardly consider this to be babbling. Barking once or twice when they hit a track, then drifting out is not babbling.

---

__________________
Grand Nite Ch PKC CH(3) Main Street Blueberry Jam(Autumn Oaks Final 4 Grand Nite Ch 2015) UKC world finalist 2017 Ohio State Ch 2018
Grand Nite Ch(4) PKC Silver CH Main Street Blue SS quarterfinalist 2018. Autumn Oaks Grand 16 2018. Senior Showdown semifinalists 2020. UKC top 25 World hunt 2020. PKC quarterfinalist 2020
Grand Nite Ch HOF PKC Silver Ch Heatseaker Unleash the Kraken(Grand at 15 months old) BBOA Overall 1st place X2, Tournament of Champions Finalist, National Bluetic Days overall winner, Autumn Oaks Grand 16x2 PKC SS Semi Finalist PKC State Hunt Final 4 UKC World Top 20
GRNT CH BLUES AMAZING GRACE
Trevor Hack
567-231-7413

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

I guess that I am not a very knowledgeable judge. Babbling to me is "loose barking". One or 2 barks when a dog smells something is not babbling. The rule doesn't say anything about "carrying a track out" or how many times they have to bark on a track or how much distance they can cover between barks. It also doesn't say that they can't open on a track, quit that track and go deeper and start another track.
Handlers/judges with 4th strike dogs are making all of that up to minus a dog that opens as soon as it smells something.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 07-12-2018 at 04:21 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I just don't sweat the small stuff babbling dogs are high strung most of the time high strung dogs make mistakes let um babble I will get them later for something else lol. If you watch the play by plays of the big hunts you will see how my theory plays out they get minus that cost them hunts jmo.




Tar

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1278

quote:

---

Originally posted by Pat Bizich
The babbling rule needs to be eliminated.
Other rules are cut and dry.
Whether a dog is babbling is too much an opinionated call.
It is too prone to every individual judges interpretation of what they believe to be babbling that carries the score card from weekend to weekend.
I don't care how many years experience you have or believe yourself to be qualified to be able to think you absolutely know the difference.
I ask is it okay to minus the innocent as long as we catch a few that are guilty.I think conversely it best be said " better a few guilty go free than to minus the innocent."

---

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
Gone too soon RIP my baby girl
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
One of kind and would make a believer out of you when you thought there were no coon left
Home of:
2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
CH. Power Pack Pepper
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged