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N Williams
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2010
Location:
Posts: 1125

If you want to learn how to start a pup right use Willyís methods. They sound crazy but they work. I would have never believed that a dogs hole mind revolves around food. It is no dought there language. His methods are the best because Iíve tried them all. I had a dog last year that had a man aggression problem. I called some of the best dog men thatís ever been and the only advice I got was dirt nap or things I knew would not work because I had done tried them. I called Willy and low and behold the problem got fixed in my garage Using food. You read his book and you will look at dogs different and understand them better. Whatís hard is getting a dog to understand what you want them to do and be able to communicate it to them in there language so they understand.

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Old Post 10-02-2019 10:06 PM
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Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 586

Wild Willy

Sent you a PM.

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Tom Wood

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Old Post 10-02-2019 10:29 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 827

WildWilly...

When I was a little boy over 55 years ago I started hunting with dogs in most of my spare time and all were mutts I ran...I acted more like part of the pack...kind of like dancing like no one is watching is how I hunted with my dogs...always on the look out hissing, yipping and hand signals as we hunted...the dogs reacted to my outward demeanor and they reacted accordingly...I got the best out of my dogs by my actions, reactions and emotions and more I got into it the more I got out of them...this is why I believe a kid get get more out of a dog than a grown up if he is brought up around dogs and takes a liking to it...

If anyone hunted with me which was seldom I led my dogs differently because I had to act normal...lol and my dogs hunted according...good but at at the level when I was alone with them...back then I thought all this was normal...but as years went by I realize that many didnít hunt this way...I remember every now and then the well to do would show up with their high powered English pointers and fancy shotguns and it made me wish I had an English pointer...lol
Ok...got to get back to original point I am leading up to...

I am telling this story because every dog I had fit well in the pack...all took to hunting right away...they werenít track to tree dogs but they were all around game getters...as a little boy we caught everything that was wild we could catch...I knew where to lead my dogs in the drought and where to lead them in the floods... I knew where the game would be...would I hunt that way as a grownup? No way I believe in taking some and leaving some and in some places leave them alone to restock as needed...

Having said all this...I hunted the pregnant female until she didnít want to go...because she was about to have pups...then the pups we kept I took them as soon as they could almost keep up...sometimes having to wait on them and sometimes carrying them and when we got home from hunting I divided up what we caught and each got their share depending on size of dog...every single pup or dog I hunted made a good dog that fit in the pack...the little dogs flushed game out of hedges...the mid sized dogs usually were strike dogs and the bigger dogs usually struck some but they stayed close to the strike dogs because they chased down and caught fast game...but as a pack they caught together are bayed anything I wanted bayed or herded anything I wanted herded...

Bruce...you mentioned the brother sister at the feeder and mentioned that she was the leader...I have bred quite a few litters over the years and I test for natural abilities...I am looking for the pup that immediately puts his nose up to the wind at 8 weeks old because it caught his attention what I laid out upwind for pups...a scent familiar because I conditioned them to like the taste for a few days and I always use hunger to my advantage...when I turn them out I am looking for the first one that finds more meat treats in the grass...and I like it when it was the pup or pups that had their noses up to the wind...at 3 months or less I take them to the woods and see which one gets that call of the wild and makes a dash into the woods and the rest of the pups follow and on his way back he is running with his or her head up looking from side to side and to the front...this is natural born abilities I look for...chances are the other pups will gain some of those abilities but I am looking for the best and naturally born with it...does it mean he or she will be the best...maybe and maybe not...but it usually turns out to be what I want...
Why breed dogs if we donít do all we can to choose the right pups to hunt and for them to one day improve the bloodline???

I reckon when we say natural born ability...we really mean that those tendencies are strong and sensitive that it takes very little to train the pup...it means we set up the right scenarios and they take it from there...like donít turn them out in a lot of fresh deer sign or you will be trying to break a pup from running deer...put them on what you want first so they can at least know that that game is what we want...and let them like the woods before you break them off of deer or the pup might think the woods is a bad place and not the deer...I break them off of deer before they start hunting in the woods...

The pups that eventually get the hunting instincts and idea after feeding them more than a few tracks...the instincts were there but not as sensitive to the naturals...

Then there might be a few that donít really ever get it...

Day in and day out I know which to keep and breed...

My opinions based on personal experiences and theories based on personal experiences...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 10-03-2019 04:25 AM
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Ron Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 759

Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by AKE
What is something that you do while training your pup or pups that you think is the secret to success?


I used to pride myself in taking a pup from nothing to a pretty dang good coon dog but after years of running through many pups I realized that it was more just picking the right pup, lol. Really, the only thing we can influence are the man made things such as leading, loading, trash breaking, etc..... We can not make that dog do any better or perform any harder than what is genetically within him/her. The secret is to get a good quality pup, take it to the woods and hunt the hide off it along with your normal training practices as mentioned above and either like what you have at the end of the day or start over with another pup or buy a finished dog. As always, this is my opinion and if anyone had a 100 percent fool proof method, they would probably be a millionaire, . Hope everyone has a wonderful day.

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Old Post 10-03-2019 12:03 PM
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Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 586

Re: Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Moore
I used to pride myself in taking a pup from nothing to a pretty dang good coon dog but after years of running through many pups I realized that it was more just picking the right pup, lol. Really, the only thing we can influence are the man made things such as leading, loading, trash breaking, etc..... We can not make that dog do any better or perform any harder than what is genetically within him/her. The secret is to get a good quality pup, take it to the woods and hunt the hide off it along with your normal training practices as mentioned above and either like what you have at the end of the day or start over with another pup or buy a finished dog. As always, this is my opinion and if anyone had a 100 percent fool proof method, they would probably be a millionaire, . Hope everyone has a wonderful day.


You have made me think about the really good dogs I've seen in the past 50 years and the truth is they came from hunters who had only had average dogs but this dog was different. Maybe it was some special circumstances or conditions the dog was started in that helped but it didn't seem to be the training. In fact some of these guys did a lot to mess a dog up. My only real training secret is put them in the woods where coon are as much as you can. And maybe leave them alone and not overtrain. At least I find myself thinking I know more than the dog and when it comes to a coon track I sure don't.

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Tom Wood

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Old Post 10-03-2019 02:57 PM
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Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 586

Re: Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Moore
I used to pride myself in taking a pup from nothing to a pretty dang good coon dog but after years of running through many pups I realized that it was more just picking the right pup, lol. Really, the only thing we can influence are the man made things such as leading, loading, trash breaking, etc..... We can not make that dog do any better or perform any harder than what is genetically within him/her. The secret is to get a good quality pup, take it to the woods and hunt the hide off it along with your normal training practices as mentioned above and either like what you have at the end of the day or start over with another pup or buy a finished dog. As always, this is my opinion and if anyone had a 100 percent fool proof method, they would probably be a millionaire, . Hope everyone has a wonderful day.


You have made me think about the really good dogs I've seen in the past 50 years and the truth is they came from hunters who had only had average dogs but this dog was different. Maybe it was some special circumstances or conditions the dog was started in that helped but it didn't seem to be the training. In fact some of these guys did a lot to mess a dog up. My only real training secret is put them in the woods where coon are as much as you can. And maybe leave them alone and not overtrain. At least I find myself thinking I know more than the dog and when it comes to a coon track I sure don't.

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Tom Wood

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Old Post 10-03-2019 02:57 PM
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groworg1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2008
Location: Gillett, Pa
Posts: 1678

who trained the trainer thats the real question !

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Old Post 10-03-2019 03:03 PM
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Ghost14
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2014
Location:
Posts: 138

Re: Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by Ron Moore
I used to pride myself in taking a pup from nothing to a pretty dang good coon dog but after years of running through many pups I realized that it was more just picking the right pup, lol. Really, the only thing we can influence are the man made things such as leading, loading, trash breaking, etc..... We can not make that dog do any better or perform any harder than what is genetically within him/her. The secret is to get a good quality pup, take it to the woods and hunt the hide off it along with your normal training practices as mentioned above and either like what you have at the end of the day or start over with another pup or buy a finished dog. As always, this is my opinion and if anyone had a 100 percent fool proof method, they would probably be a millionaire, . Hope everyone has a wonderful day.


This right here, is exactly what Iíve seen! Iíve yet to see someone put anything in one that wasnít there already. Iíve ruined a few but looking back the good ones should have been ruined as well but they were different animals by nature. Best advice is to stay off the computer and stay in the woods. Good dogs will teach you more than any person.

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Old Post 10-03-2019 04:42 PM
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Ron Moore
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location: WV
Posts: 759

Re: Re: Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by Ghost14
This right here, is exactly what Iíve seen! Iíve yet to see someone put anything in one that wasnít there already. Iíve ruined a few but looking back the good ones should have been ruined as well but they were different animals by nature. Best advice is to stay off the computer and stay in the woods. Good dogs will teach you more than any person.


Good words! My advice to anyone just getting into the sport is to bypass on getting a pup and find an older coonhound that someone is willing to part with very reasonable and set back and learn from that dog. You'll catch more coon and then use that same dog to help you along with a pup when you get one.

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Old Post 10-03-2019 08:19 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 827

Natural born Abilities

It seems there are three types of hunting pups born in a decent litter...the least common on the top end and we hope to choose those pups every time they are born...if not then why breed dogs?

The one I am talking about might be the above average pup and if he is extra special there may be other qualities we might notice...but the above average is more common on the top end...

So what are the major differences between the top end pup and the lower quality pup?

The top end pups genetic makeup is sensitive and in tune with the things we like...the pup needs very little training just putting the pup in the right scenarios...a little tweaking here and there and the pup is on its way in making a hunting dog...

The lower end pup might get it one day but will require lots more field time and feeding lots more tracks...and then one day we may give up on that pup...

The middle of the road pup is common enough...it wonít require as much field work as the bottom end pup...but more than likely it will never be what the top end pup can or will be...

So when breeding better dogs we need to do a better job in selecting the right pups for future hunters and breeding...when we find out we sold the best and kept a lesser pup it is a setback for the breeding program...this about how I see it...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 10-04-2019 03:41 AM
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AKE
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2003
Location: MO
Posts: 79

Re: Re: Re: Training

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
You have made me think about the really good dogs I've seen in the past 50 years and the truth is they came from hunters who had only had average dogs but this dog was different. Maybe it was some special circumstances or conditions the dog was started in that helped but it didn't seem to be the training. In fact some of these guys did a lot to mess a dog up. My only real training secret is put them in the woods where coon are as much as you can. And maybe leave them alone and not overtrain. At least I find myself thinking I know more than the dog and when it comes to a coon track I sure don't.



This made me think also. I've done some crazy things trying to train my last couple. One turned out to be the best I had and the other was just another dog that would tree a coon but nothing really special. When I was younger I remember the old timers I hunted with would always use fresh hides all the time for drags. They would also start taking pups out at night with us when we went hunting seems like every night. Even though the pups were only 4-5 months old when they started taking them along. Only one pup also never more than one. Even if they didn't show interest yet and just hung around. Seems like those pups always turned out also.

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Old Post 10-15-2019 12:57 AM
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