UKC Forums UKC Front Page :: Field Operations :: Show Operations :: Registration :: UKC Store
Here you can view your subscribed threads, work with private messages and edit your profile and preferences Registration is free! Calendar Find other members Frequently Asked Questions Search Home  
UKC Forums : Powered by vBulletin version 2.3.0 UKC Forums > Departments > UKC Coonhounds > Will it make them better?
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Author
Thread Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 280

Will it make them better?

In my opinion, Competition hunts are to be a measuring stick for the
hounds that we own. It gives us a way to compare the hounds we own with what others have. It has been almost 3 weeks since Autumn Oaks and rule changes were approved. My question is will the new rule changes actually help to improve what we are breeding for. Or will it even help us in our ability to fairly judge which dog is better on a cast.
I will not insult anyone for their opinion and ask the same from those commenting. Just so we are clear where I'm coming from I hunt both UKC and PKC. I hunt local clubs mostly with occasional trips to bigger hunts. I enjoy it very much or I wouldn't do it.
Will It Make Them Better?
My opinion
1) 3 minute tree. A dog holding a tree for only 3 minutes will not make a better hound. It will only mean they don't have to stay treed in all weather conditions as long. Will this improve the tree hound?
2) Tree count down: The main reason I read for most liking this change is to stop the me too and backing dogs from winning. This rule as written will NOT STOP IT! A dog can run over a mile in less than 2 minutes, so a good backer can easily cover any dog in less than 3 minutes and probably 2 minutes What this rule does do is allow a handler that doesn't like how his dog is treeing to hold off and only take a quarter instead of being force to tree for 75.
3) No leash lock rule: This rule is yet to be written and I am interested to see how it will work. I personally think the current UKC rules on this are very fair and good. Currently if any dog is still trailing, the longest I have to wait is 8 minutes to recut. And I have the option of recutting immediately if nothing else is struck in. The big difference I see, under the new proposal is I will have to recut with other dogs treed close by. Which could be a penalty for treeing first with the new treeing but not declared treed rule.
4) Silent on track: I can't see how this will improve our hounds as most breeds want a standard of a dog open trailing.
Thanks for reading my long winded opinion. I appreciate your opinions on how the coonhound will be improved by these rule changes.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-20-2019 09:53 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2060

Re: Will it make them better?

quote:
Originally posted by Lance Laymon
In my opinion, Competition hunts are to be a measuring stick for the
hounds that we own. It gives us a way to compare the hounds we own with what others have. It has been almost 3 weeks since Autumn Oaks and rule changes were approved. My question is will the new rule changes actually help to improve what we are breeding for. Or will it even help us in our ability to fairly judge which dog is better on a cast.
I will not insult anyone for their opinion and ask the same from those commenting. Just so we are clear where I'm coming from I hunt both UKC and PKC. I hunt local clubs mostly with occasional trips to bigger hunts. I enjoy it very much or I wouldn't do it.
Will It Make Them Better?
My opinion
1) 3 minute tree. A dog holding a tree for only 3 minutes will not make a better hound. It will only mean they don't have to stay treed in all weather conditions as long. Will this improve the tree hound?
2) Tree count down: The main reason I read for most liking this change is to stop the me too and backing dogs from winning. This rule as written will NOT STOP IT! A dog can run over a mile in less than 2 minutes, so a good backer can easily cover any dog in less than 3 minutes and probably 2 minutes What this rule does do is allow a handler that doesn't like how his dog is treeing to hold off and only take a quarter instead of being force to tree for 75.
3) No leash lock rule: This rule is yet to be written and I am interested to see how it will work. I personally think the current UKC rules on this are very fair and good. Currently if any dog is still trailing, the longest I have to wait is 8 minutes to recut. And I have the option of recutting immediately if nothing else is struck in. The big difference I see, under the new proposal is I will have to recut with other dogs treed close by. Which could be a penalty for treeing first with the new treeing but not declared treed rule.
4) Silent on track: I can't see how this will improve our hounds as most breeds want a standard of a dog open trailing.
Thanks for reading my long winded opinion. I appreciate your opinions on how the coonhound will be improved by these rule changes.



So you think that the rules will make people breed silent dogs that cover too much and won't stay treed?

That's not the case in the other Kennel Clubs that have similar rules.

__________________
https://youtu.be/o9LfpWsIQ5s
www.bigshowgamecalls.com
Home of the Phoenix squaller.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-20-2019 11:58 PM
Josh Michaelis is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Josh Michaelis Click here to Send Josh Michaelis a Private Message Click Here to Email Josh Michaelis Visit Josh Michaelis's homepage! Find more posts by Josh Michaelis Add Josh Michaelis to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 248

I think the new rules are great. But I also hunt a walker. Meaning nothing really. Except I know I can train, not beat it to fit the rules. Type or breed of dog shouldnít matter for that matter. But am beginning to think that the people that are against all this are the ones hunting a dog that is not capable of doing itís own thing an has to depend on another to do so. Then again it could be that the ones that are whining are so hung up in the past on how things once were that change scares them to death. Maybe they are kennel blind , believing what they have is not getting a fair shake in all this change.In reality what they do have canít reach the mark that is gonna be expected with this new rule change.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 12:37 AM
Sgraves is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sgraves Click here to Send Sgraves a Private Message Click Here to Email Sgraves Find more posts by Sgraves Add Sgraves to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
lblhunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2018
Location: west ky
Posts: 55

If a dog won't stay treed 3 minutes he won't stay 5 either.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 12:40 AM
lblhunter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for lblhunter Click here to Send lblhunter a Private Message Find more posts by lblhunter Add lblhunter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 842

Lance , I understand what you are saying and you have valid points. However I think the rules are trying to help the cast get as many coons treed in these short hunts and in the end the dog that can earn the most points on the most coons is supposed to win. Iím sure the rules will have some unforeseen loopholes or issues but I donít feel personally that the dogs will be bred to a lesser standard because of it. JMO

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 12:53 AM
Sonny Phipps is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sonny Phipps Click here to Send Sonny Phipps a Private Message Click Here to Email Sonny Phipps Find more posts by Sonny Phipps Add Sonny Phipps to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2111

I think people shied away from breeding silent dogs because they weren't allowed in hunts. Yes, I know, they were being hunted. Now they'll be hunted and bred more and it seems we already had more silent hounds than we had 30 years ago.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 01:10 AM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
HOBO
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Fredericksburg Va
Posts: 13297

No

__________________
Swampmusic Kennel
Remembering Our Past......
Gr.Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Dohoney's Lobo
Ch.Swampmusic Lil Bit Sassy
Ch.Swampmusic Misty Shadow
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Boone

But Looking To The Future...
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Pride
Ch.Swampmusic Miss Mary
Gr.Ch.Swampmusic HoneyBee
Nt.Ch.Gr.Ch.Swampmusic Big Hoss




Dennis Robinson
Cell 540-295-3892

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 01:14 AM
HOBO is offline Click Here to See the Profile for HOBO Click here to Send HOBO a Private Message Click Here to Email HOBO Visit HOBO's homepage! Find more posts by HOBO Add HOBO to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1210

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
I think people shied away from breeding silent dogs because they weren't allowed in hunts. Yes, I know, they were being hunted. Now they'll be hunted and bred more and it seems we already had more silent hounds than we had 30 years ago.


A bunch of the current silent dogs are trained to keep that mouth shut until treed. I've seen it done with more than 1 dog. But with this type of dog you have to tree 1 more coon than them. It's just the facts of it.

__________________
Eric DePue

PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 03:02 AM
novicane65 is offline Click Here to See the Profile for novicane65 Click here to Send novicane65 a Private Message Click Here to Email novicane65 Find more posts by novicane65 Add novicane65 to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1957

With no leash lock the best dog may not be lead around half the hunt, silent or open should only matter to the guy feeding. 3 minute tree does nothing but give more hunt time. So in my opinion yes

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 10:31 AM
sleepy head is offline Click Here to See the Profile for sleepy head Click here to Send sleepy head a Private Message Find more posts by sleepy head Add sleepy head to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 280

I think people either like change or don't, but what I'm asking is will the changes proposed make better dog. It seems to me they are just changes for the sake of change.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 04:00 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 280

[QUOTE]Originally posted by sleepy head
[B]With no leash lock the best dog may not be lead around half the hunt, silent or open should only matter to the guy feeding. 3 minute tree does nothing but give more hunt time. So in my opinion yes

Under current UKC rules the longest you can be kept on leash is 8 minutes unless all dogs are treed. Which I always thought was better than PKC.
Silent mouth dogs will also matter to the people breeding to them down the road.
So the 3 minute tree is just to speed the hunt up? Why not make it 2 minutes then or even 30 seconds?
Won't that also affect the treed but not declared treed time also. Have to make it 3 min?

Last edited by Lance Laymon on 09-21-2019 at 04:14 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 04:06 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 280

Re: Re: Will it make them better?

quote:
Originally posted by Josh Michaelis
So you think that the rules will make people breed silent dogs that cover too much and won't stay treed?

That's not the case in the other Kennel Clubs that have similar rules.



What other Kennel clubs? PKC has a 5 minute tree rule. And yes I believe the more people that hunt and breed silent mouth dogs the more of them their will be.

Last edited by Lance Laymon on 09-21-2019 at 04:27 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 04:07 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 280

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
I think the new rules are great. But I also hunt a walker. Meaning nothing really. Except I know I can train, not beat it to fit the rules. Type or breed of dog shouldnít matter for that matter. But am beginning to think that the people that are against all this are the ones hunting a dog that is not capable of doing itís own thing an has to depend on another to do so. Then again it could be that the ones that are whining are so hung up in the past on how things once were that change scares them to death. Maybe they are kennel blind , believing what they have is not getting a fair shake in all this change.In reality what they do have canít reach the mark that is gonna be expected with this new rule change.

I am happy you have such a superior hound. What I am asking is what is hoped to be accomplished with each rule change. Maybe they are just changeing the rules so the game will be different. Hoping to draw people that are bored with the old game and rules.

Last edited by Lance Laymon on 09-21-2019 at 04:25 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 04:10 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 280

quote:
Originally posted by Sonny Phipps
Lance , I understand what you are saying and you have valid points. However I think the rules are trying to help the cast get as many coons treed in these short hunts and in the end the dog that can earn the most points on the most coons is supposed to win. Iím sure the rules will have some unforeseen loopholes or issues but I donít feel personally that the dogs will be bred to a lesser standard because of it. JMO


Thank you for your thoughtful post. So I gather you believe we are only changing the rules to make the game different, but that it will not make the dogs better. As I stated before I thought that the hunts were to judge the caliber of hound we were hunting, not just to play a game.
It seems to me they just want to change the rules to have something different to play with no thought of how it will affect the outcome of our hound.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 04:23 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
AAThoundhunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2014
Location:
Posts: 72

Playing a game

You can still take the same dog to the new game if thatís what you like. If your dog runs to every dog treed and canít think for itself you might just lose more games than you win. If people really canít stand what type of dogs win the hunts donít buy one or breed to it. If you just like to go to a hunt to hangout and hunt with some other dogs you can still do that. Just donít criticize the guys that are breeding their dogs to win the game because yours canít keep up.

Last edited by AAThoundhunter on 09-21-2019 at 05:39 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 05:35 PM
AAThoundhunter is offline Click Here to See the Profile for AAThoundhunter Click here to Send AAThoundhunter a Private Message Find more posts by AAThoundhunter Add AAThoundhunter to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Bill(Chew)
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Washington, NC
Posts: 3100

Some of these changes I agree with and some I don't. I personally don't like the tree countdown, like the 3 minute tree, and see NO reason for BOTH. I will wait to see the final rules, learn them, and enforce them when I am MOH.

Most of these changes are to help the 1 hour hunts. In such a limited time to win you need to prevent the other dogs from getting points. Every one says it's to prevent the "ME TOO dog" from winning. That must be a problem in the mid west but in over 35 years of competition I have not seen it very much in the south east. And before you accuse me of having me too dogs, I don't.

__________________
Bill Harper
Washington, NC
252-944-5592

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-21-2019 06:00 PM
Bill(Chew) is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Bill(Chew) Click here to Send Bill(Chew) a Private Message Click Here to Email Bill(Chew) Find more posts by Bill(Chew) Add Bill(Chew) to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 842

quote:
Originally posted by Lance Laymon
Thank you for your thoughtful post. So I gather you believe we are only changing the rules to make the game different, but that it will not make the dogs better. As I stated before I thought that the hunts were to judge the caliber of hound we were hunting, not just to play a game.
It seems to me they just want to change the rules to have something different to play with no thought of how it will affect the outcome of our hound.



I guess youíre right in my way of thinking. When they went to the one hour hunts , the game was changed. Now they are trying to make the rules fit it better. Everyone saw the down side of one hour hunts in $kc with a leash lock. I know that times have changed and so has our way of doing things but I personally like 3 hr hunts! It gives a more fair sampling of the dog(s) ability IMO. A one hour hunt is more of a flash in the pan type showing. I think the dogs of today are different then dogs of yesterday and those of tomorrow.

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-22-2019 04:05 PM
Sonny Phipps is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sonny Phipps Click here to Send Sonny Phipps a Private Message Click Here to Email Sonny Phipps Find more posts by Sonny Phipps Add Sonny Phipps to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 842

quote:
Originally posted by Bill(Chew)
Some of these changes I agree with and some I don't. I personally don't like the tree countdown, like the 3 minute tree, and see NO reason for BOTH. I will wait to see the final rules, learn them, and enforce them when I am MOH.

Most of these changes are to help the 1 hour hunts. In such a limited time to win you need to prevent the other dogs from getting points. Every one says it's to prevent the "ME TOO dog" from winning. That must be a problem in the mid west but in over 35 years of competition I have not seen it very much in the south east. And before you accuse me of having me too dogs, I don't.



I have always said that I donít know why so many folks have a issue with dogs backing. I have not seen this type to be such a threat in a hunt. Every time I saw this type dog beat me , instead of blaming a rule or the dog that beat me, I just look at the end of my leash and find the problem......

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-22-2019 04:09 PM
Sonny Phipps is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sonny Phipps Click here to Send Sonny Phipps a Private Message Click Here to Email Sonny Phipps Find more posts by Sonny Phipps Add Sonny Phipps to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
2ol2hunt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 582

I have always said that I donít know why so many folks have a issue with dogs backing. I have not seen this type to be such a threat in a hunt. Every time I saw this type dog beat me , instead of blaming a rule or the dog that beat me, I just look at the end of my leash and find the problem......

Hard to argue with this logic!!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-22-2019 06:01 PM
2ol2hunt is offline Click Here to See the Profile for 2ol2hunt Click here to Send 2ol2hunt a Private Message Click Here to Email 2ol2hunt Find more posts by 2ol2hunt Add 2ol2hunt to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 842

Hard to argue with this logic!! [/B][/QUOTE]

Honestly if my dog is trying to tree a coon for every minute that it is loose during a hunt and has pretty fair talent about it how does a dog that back him/her beat me? A bad break ? Yea maybe, but that can happen with any rule in place. I guess Iím just in the dark on how this is such a issue. I do agree that not leash locking dogs will help with some clock burning issues but I not sure I understand the reason folks are so worked up over a dog backing. Heck I figure if itís backing mine, itís not out treeing a extra coon on me or something, let them back for less points on every coon! 😎

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-22-2019 08:51 PM
Sonny Phipps is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sonny Phipps Click here to Send Sonny Phipps a Private Message Click Here to Email Sonny Phipps Find more posts by Sonny Phipps Add Sonny Phipps to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
2ol2hunt
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 582

X2. It's hard to beat you if a dog is me-tooing all night

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-22-2019 10:01 PM
2ol2hunt is offline Click Here to See the Profile for 2ol2hunt Click here to Send 2ol2hunt a Private Message Click Here to Email 2ol2hunt Find more posts by 2ol2hunt Add 2ol2hunt to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2111

I never will understand this anger over a dog treeing with another dog.

__________________
Donald Bergeron

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-23-2019 12:23 AM
shadinc is offline Click Here to See the Profile for shadinc Click here to Send shadinc a Private Message Click Here to Email shadinc Find more posts by shadinc Add shadinc to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2739

Re: Will it make them better?

quote:
Originally posted by Lance Laymon
In my opinion, Competition hunts are to be a measuring stick for the
hounds that we own. It gives us a way to compare the hounds we own with what others have. It has been almost 3 weeks since Autumn Oaks and rule changes were approved. My question is will the new rule changes actually help to improve what we are breeding for. Or will it even help us in our ability to fairly judge which dog is better on a cast.
I will not insult anyone for their opinion and ask the same from those commenting. Just so we are clear where I'm coming from I hunt both UKC and PKC. I hunt local clubs mostly with occasional trips to bigger hunts. I enjoy it very much or I wouldn't do it.
Will It Make Them Better?
My opinion
1) 3 minute tree. A dog holding a tree for only 3 minutes will not make a better hound. It will only mean they don't have to stay treed in all weather conditions as long. Will this improve the tree hound?
2) Tree count down: The main reason I read for most liking this change is to stop the me too and backing dogs from winning. This rule as written will NOT STOP IT! A dog can run over a mile in less than 2 minutes, so a good backer can easily cover any dog in less than 3 minutes and probably 2 minutes What this rule does do is allow a handler that doesn't like how his dog is treeing to hold off and only take a quarter instead of being force to tree for 75.
3) No leash lock rule: This rule is yet to be written and I am interested to see how it will work. I personally think the current UKC rules on this are very fair and good. Currently if any dog is still trailing, the longest I have to wait is 8 minutes to recut. And I have the option of recutting immediately if nothing else is struck in. The big difference I see, under the new proposal is I will have to recut with other dogs treed close by. Which could be a penalty for treeing first with the new treeing but not declared treed rule.
4) Silent on track: I can't see how this will improve our hounds as most breeds want a standard of a dog open trailing.
Thanks for reading my long winded opinion. I appreciate your opinions on how the coonhound will be improved by these rule changes.



Lance Laymon I respect your opinion, and in my opinion some of these rules will help in producing better dogs down the road. UKC has seen a younger generation hunting in other major hunts in other registries. So there was going to be rule changes and a lot of rule changes were approved.

1)Now I am not in favor of the 3minute tree rule but not because I think it will devalue the dogs. The 3 minute rule will speed up the hunt which is great for the younger generation. I am not sure if the older generation will be able to keep up except in maybe 1hr hunts. We will see. I hope all these changes will bring some of the younger hunters that hunt other kennel clubs and keep the ones that have been hunting UKC events.

2) Tree count down this is one of the best rules Ever in the history of UKC to be approved. This will Improve the quality of dogs produced, bred and hunted. I will give you and example why. A Real UKC Hunt: 3 dog cast I will call them dog A,B&C Dogs cut all dogs struck 100yds infront A&B went straight ahead to the right C swung to the left opening. A treed B treed 5 was up walked in scored coon. Pulled off C still opening recut A & B strike again working a track C trees B quits her track and goes to C, tree B go and score tree coon seen. I will shorten it up for You A and C each treed 3 coons that night never together and never in the hunt were all dogs treed at one time. B scored on 6 coons, but never once treed a coon but multiple times quit a track to go to a dog treed. 5 out of 6 times that night she got to a dog treed after 2minutes and sometimes 4minutes won the cast by 50points with 600+ and a 1st place in the hunt. She quit multiple tracks through out the hunt to go to a dog treed. That is lack of desire, heart and ability. Now hypothetically put dog B in that final cast at the UKC World hunt she could have scored on all 6 of those coons and never treed a one of them that would have gave her 450+ not even counting any of her strike points and could have won the world hunt by doing exactly that. Do you really think the best dog would have won or that dog deserved to win a hunt like that?? I will say it is impossible for a dog to go a mile and cover a dog in 2minutes or even 3 for that matter. This would mean a dog would have to run 30mph to do that Impossible. to do it in less then 3 it would need to do 20mph through weeds, corn, beans creeks as a lot of hunts are held in this time of year practically Impossible. The count down might not be as important in areas where only 1 or 2 coon are scored in a hunt. But here in Iowa and Midwest where multiple coons are scored a count down is very much so needed.

3) The leash lock will be good if they keep the rule in place now that is there and give the guy the choice if he wants to turn loose or not after scoring his dog tree and all other dogs are treed and there not going to call timeout That is now the only time a dog is leash Locked. If they take the choice away from a handler then this rule is no good.

4) Silent on track: This rule has done nothing to improve hounds over the years. In fact it just might have made them worse. With 1hr hunts do you realize that a dog hunting beside a corn field and bluff with coons setting in oak trees a dog could wind locate and tree 3 coons in and hour hunt and never open on strike by using his nose breeze and brains and get scratched for doing and absolutely fantastic job that a hound is supposed to do. Once people start breeding for nose and brains instead of bark we will have a lot better hounds and a lot less slick trees. Just my Opinion

Now proposal 1 and proposal 7 that passed has nothing to do with improving hounds those are just rules to try and deplete the competition. Which is the kind of rule changes you have seen for many years. Like needing to tree your dog if it is definitely treed. That has absolutely nothing to do with improving hounds. JMHO

__________________
Tree Jar'n Black and Tans
Home of Tree Jar'n Coonhound Kennels


319-201-8445

Last edited by berger on 09-23-2019 at 01:15 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-23-2019 01:04 AM
berger is offline Click Here to See the Profile for berger Click here to Send berger a Private Message Find more posts by berger Add berger to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Lance Laymon
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Deputy, Indiana
Posts: 280

Re: Re: Will it make them better?

quote:
Originally posted by berger
Lance Laymon I respect your opinion, and in my opinion some of these rules will help in producing better dogs down the road. UKC has seen a younger generation hunting in other major hunts in other registries. So there was going to be rule changes and a lot of rule changes were approved.

1)Now I am not in favor of the 3minute tree rule but not because I think it will devalue the dogs. The 3 minute rule will speed up the hunt which is great for the younger generation. I am not sure if the older generation will be able to keep up except in maybe 1hr hunts. We will see. I hope all these changes will bring some of the younger hunters that hunt other kennel clubs and keep the ones that have been hunting UKC events.

2) Tree count down this is one of the best rules Ever in the history of UKC to be approved. This will Improve the quality of dogs produced, bred and hunted. I will give you and example why. A Real UKC Hunt: 3 dog cast I will call them dog A,B&C Dogs cut all dogs struck 100yds infront A&B went straight ahead to the right C swung to the left opening. A treed B treed 5 was up walked in scored coon. Pulled off C still opening recut A & B strike again working a track C trees B quits her track and goes to C, tree B go and score tree coon seen. I will shorten it up for You A and C each treed 3 coons that night never together and never in the hunt were all dogs treed at one time. B scored on 6 coons, but never once treed a coon but multiple times quit a track to go to a dog treed. 5 out of 6 times that night she got to a dog treed after 2minutes and sometimes 4minutes won the cast by 50points with 600+ and a 1st place in the hunt. She quit multiple tracks through out the hunt to go to a dog treed. That is lack of desire, heart and ability. Now hypothetically put dog B in that final cast at the UKC World hunt she could have scored on all 6 of those coons and never treed a one of them that would have gave her 450+ not even counting any of her strike points and could have won the world hunt by doing exactly that. Do you really think the best dog would have won or that dog deserved to win a hunt like that?? I will say it is impossible for a dog to go a mile and cover a dog in 2minutes or even 3 for that matter. This would mean a dog would have to run 30mph to do that Impossible. to do it in less then 3 it would need to do 20mph through weeds, corn, beans creeks as a lot of hunts are held in this time of year practically Impossible. The count down might not be as important in areas where only 1 or 2 coon are scored in a hunt. But here in Iowa and Midwest where multiple coons are scored a count down is very much so needed.

3) The leash lock will be good if they keep the rule in place now that is there and give the guy the choice if he wants to turn loose or not after scoring his dog tree and all other dogs are treed and there not going to call timeout That is now the only time a dog is leash Locked. If they take the choice away from a handler then this rule is no good.

4) Silent on track: This rule has done nothing to improve hounds over the years. In fact it just might have made them worse. With 1hr hunts do you realize that a dog hunting beside a corn field and bluff with coons setting in oak trees a dog could wind locate and tree 3 coons in and hour hunt and never open on strike by using his nose breeze and brains and get scratched for doing and absolutely fantastic job that a hound is supposed to do. Once people start breeding for nose and brains instead of bark we will have a lot better hounds and a lot less slick trees. Just my Opinion

Now proposal 1 and proposal 7 that passed has nothing to do with improving hounds those are just rules to try and deplete the competition. Which is the kind of rule changes you have seen for many years. Like needing to tree your dog if it is definitely treed. That has absolutely nothing to do with improving hounds. JMHO

Very good post. I dont agree with it all, but I appreciate your opinion. Pkc has a leash lock rule and 5 minutes on tree. And what registery has all these new rules in place where the younger hunters have went to? I agree it will not matter as long as the option is not taken away. I still dont like the 3 minute tree nor do I believe the count down will stop backing. Dogs can go along way in 2 minutes and I believe the rule will benefit slick handlers more than stopping backers

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-23-2019 12:47 PM
Lance Laymon is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Lance Laymon Click here to Send Lance Laymon a Private Message Find more posts by Lance Laymon Add Lance Laymon to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 842

Re: Re: Will it make them better?

quote:
Originally posted by berger
Lance Laymon I respect your opinion, and in my opinion some of these rules will help in producing better dogs down the road. UKC has seen a younger generation hunting in other major hunts in other registries. So there was going to be rule changes and a lot of rule changes were approved.

1)Now I am not in favor of the 3minute tree rule but not because I think it will devalue the dogs. The 3 minute rule will speed up the hunt which is great for the younger generation. I am not sure if the older generation will be able to keep up except in maybe 1hr hunts. We will see. I hope all these changes will bring some of the younger hunters that hunt other kennel clubs and keep the ones that have been hunting UKC events.

2) Tree count down this is one of the best rules Ever in the history of UKC to be approved. This will Improve the quality of dogs produced, bred and hunted. I will give you and example why. A Real UKC Hunt: 3 dog cast I will call them dog A,B&C Dogs cut all dogs struck 100yds infront A&B went straight ahead to the right C swung to the left opening. A treed B treed 5 was up walked in scored coon. Pulled off C still opening recut A & B strike again working a track C trees B quits her track and goes to C, tree B go and score tree coon seen. I will shorten it up for You A and C each treed 3 coons that night never together and never in the hunt were all dogs treed at one time. B scored on 6 coons, but never once treed a coon but multiple times quit a track to go to a dog treed. 5 out of 6 times that night she got to a dog treed after 2minutes and sometimes 4minutes won the cast by 50points with 600+ and a 1st place in the hunt. She quit multiple tracks through out the hunt to go to a dog treed. That is lack of desire, heart and ability. Now hypothetically put dog B in that final cast at the UKC World hunt she could have scored on all 6 of those coons and never treed a one of them that would have gave her 450+ not even counting any of her strike points and could have won the world hunt by doing exactly that. Do you really think the best dog would have won or that dog deserved to win a hunt like that?? I will say it is impossible for a dog to go a mile and cover a dog in 2minutes or even 3 for that matter. This would mean a dog would have to run 30mph to do that Impossible. to do it in less then 3 it would need to do 20mph through weeds, corn, beans creeks as a lot of hunts are held in this time of year practically Impossible. The count down might not be as important in areas where only 1 or 2 coon are scored in a hunt. But here in Iowa and Midwest where multiple coons are scored a count down is very much so needed.

3) The leash lock will be good if they keep the rule in place now that is there and give the guy the choice if he wants to turn loose or not after scoring his dog tree and all other dogs are treed and there not going to call timeout That is now the only time a dog is leash Locked. If they take the choice away from a handler then this rule is no good.

4) Silent on track: This rule has done nothing to improve hounds over the years. In fact it just might have made them worse. With 1hr hunts do you realize that a dog hunting beside a corn field and bluff with coons setting in oak trees a dog could wind locate and tree 3 coons in and hour hunt and never open on strike by using his nose breeze and brains and get scratched for doing and absolutely fantastic job that a hound is supposed to do. Once people start breeding for nose and brains instead of bark we will have a lot better hounds and a lot less slick trees. Just my Opinion

Now proposal 1 and proposal 7 that passed has nothing to do with improving hounds those are just rules to try and deplete the competition. Which is the kind of rule changes you have seen for many years. Like needing to tree your dog if it is definitely treed. That has absolutely nothing to do with improving hounds. JMHO



I understand the hunt you described , but how often does this really happen? Iím not trying to argue about it, I just donít see it happening that often. I see digs being led around on a leash lock way more then I do this dog dropping tracks and covering everything.

I am in the same opinion as you that the dogs that stayed to themselves and treed coons did good work, but that is our opinion. Had those 2 dogs stayed together for a duration of the hunt , the hitchhiker wouldnít been able to pull this off. With that said the rules were set up to score a pack of dogs working together, now that we all think loners are the answer the rules are changed to help them. Maybe we are looking at this with rose colored glasses. Just another way to look at it.

__________________
Get deep or Get Beat!

Last edited by Sonny Phipps on 09-23-2019 at 05:25 PM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Old Post 09-23-2019 05:18 PM
Sonny Phipps is offline Click Here to See the Profile for Sonny Phipps Click here to Send Sonny Phipps a Private Message Click Here to Email Sonny Phipps Find more posts by Sonny Phipps Add Sonny Phipps to your buddy list Edit/Delete Message Reply w/Quote
All times are GMT. The time now is 07:48 AM. Post New Thread    Post A Reply
Pages (2): [1] 2 »   Last Thread   Next Thread
Show Printable Version | Email this Page | Subscribe to this Thread


Forum Jump:
 

Forum Rules:
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not edit your posts
HTML code is OFF
vB code is ON
Smilies are ON
[IMG] code is ON
 
< Contact Us - The United Kennel Club >

Copyright 2003-2017, United Kennel Club
Powered by: vBulletin Version 2.3.0
(vBulletin courtesy Jelsoft Enterprises Limited.)