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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Have to have all grand ped to make coondog

Well for everyone that thinks you have to have an all grand ped to make a coondog, don't look at the top producing females in the January 2020 bloodlines.
Current
#1 is only a nitech
#4 only a nitech
what the bottom 3 only PR dogs

Historical
#1 only a nitech
#4,5,7,and 10 only nitech
# 8 only a PR dog
that means in the historical count only 4 out of the 10 are Grandnitech

Guess those good ole coondogs are coondogs and can reproduce coondogs regardless of how many times or if they never been hauled to town.
Just something to think about next time the all GRAND PED topic comes up. By the way, there is a male in the current that isn't even a nitech as well. They must be breeding on ability not just some title.

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Old Post 01-29-2020 09:17 PM
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wakenda creek b
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Great post

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Old Post 01-29-2020 11:57 PM
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steeb_63
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2009
Location: olney il
Posts: 5008

thankyou very much sir!!! ive said it for awhile now.but probably why we haven't won the world?
lol

__________________
GRNITECH GRCH PKC SCH STEBERS MIGHTY LONESOME II
HIGH SCORING BLUETICK BLK & TAN DAYS 2016, 2017 and 2018
TOP 9 2017 FALL SUPERSTAKES
2018 2ND PLACE BREED WINNER PKC
2019 ILLINOIS STATE CHAMPION
2019 AUTUMN OAKS GRAND 16
2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATL GRNITECH OF BREED
2019 ZONE 3 HIGH SCORING DOG
2019 WORLD CH TOP 100
2019 PURINA NATIONALS BREED WINNER.
2019 FALL ROUND UP KING OF THE HUNT.
2019 ERCHA PKC PRO HUNT TOP 4
2020 WINTER CLASSIC SAT. 4TH PLACE CHAMPION DIVISION
2020 WORLD QUALIIFIED
2020 NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS INVITATIONAL HUNT WINNER
2020 NATIONAL BLUETICK DAYS DOUBLE CAST WINNER 3RD PLACE GRNITECH FRI AND 4TH PLACE GRNITECH SAT
2020 Natl english days high scoring dog overall fri 1rst place grnitech sat 3rd place grnitech.
2021 invitational hunt winner
2021 natl bluetick days 9th place RQE winner
T0C Top 64 winner

ALSO HOME OF
PR Stebers Lil Blue Krayzee[dual grand penny x grnitech krypt]
nitech Stebers Big Ole Slick
NITECH STEBERS MIGHTY LONESOME 3 AKA CASH[7 wins towards grnitech
Stebers Mighty Blue Bell
Stebers 5 Gen
Stebers Pure Country
Stebers Shining Diamond
Stebers Lonesome Sue
Stebers Mighty Blue Patsy
Stebers Ole Blue Betty
Stebers Lil Blue Krayzee II
AND SEVERAL YOUNG ONES IN THE MIX

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Old Post 01-30-2020 06:28 AM
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BluBritches
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2015
Location: missouri
Posts: 248

Ability?

Gyp

Not saying the dogs on reproducer list but I know of some females that have never seen a coon and produced some of the best pups I've seen in awhile

Believe it or not some country boys dont care about titles and still breed the BLOOD. I've heard alot of these good ol boys say pups will take more after their grandparents then the sire or dam anyways

Now that being said I bought myself a all grand pup
Does this mean she will be a coondog?
Time will tell and nothing else but I couldn't make the trip to GO HUNT so I relied on paper

Not saying titles are bad but for me the term nitech or even grnitech and COONDOG are two very different things. I know some back behind the barn hounds that can put serious fur in the freezer

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Old Post 01-30-2020 03:29 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Fur dogs

Yep good ole fur dogs. Only one problem if you had a good one hunted all night all season and skinned every coon. If you didn't count your expenses, and took exceptional care of the fur. When you sell your furthis year you might be able to buy a soda pop and candy bar. Maybe. Might only be able to buy one or the other. Better do it for the fun. Seriously good hounds are that. Hats off to those who have hauled em to town and titled em. It takes time and money and effort. Not knocking those accomplishments at all. But I hunt with some nice dogs that have never and will never be hauled to town. It is all in what one enjoys. I don't personally care about title or bred when it comes to dubbing a hound a Coondog. Only if it is a Coondog in my Mind do I call it such, regardless of title breed or blood. And I'm fully aware that when you breed regardless of title ability or blood it is up to the puppy owners to take that pup and guide it into a coondog. But I had the All Grand talk not long ago with a guy than that I'd die laughing when I noticed the reproducers list.
PS that guy told me he wouldn't own one unless it was all grand behind it. I told him if I was buying a Coondog it would have to have something above it before I got worried about what was behind it.

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Old Post 01-30-2020 04:24 PM
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BluBritches
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2015
Location: missouri
Posts: 248

I'm guilty too!

Just for thought

Scrolling thru info and see a dog no title no ped ain't heard of it so move right on along..........

Smiley's blue rambo II was bred to clear river curlee 5 times for a total of 27 puppies 6 grnitech & 4 nitech leaving 17 pr siblings (random famous cross)
We scroll and see grch grnitech pr smiley's blue rambo III puppies bam you have my attention same with littermate grnitech grch pr clear river diamond jim

Now I know without my cheat sheets I could read at least 10 siblings names and not realize that barn pup I ain't ever heard was actually out of a very famous cross
Of course the owner says "I dont pay attention to bloodlines" but that was the best coondog I ever owned..........

Now you have a dog no one has heard of so it gets dismissed but for the ones that chase the blood you find this rambo x curlee male that this guy bred to his best female right before he died at 12 years old and he has a male out of that cross still alive and healthy....... hmmmmm by the way the females ped turned out to be special too. Time to go for a hunt !!! (Just as an example)

That part was for the barn hounds but seriously on 1/17/99 diamond jim and Rambo III was born do we dismiss the capabilities of 17 siblings simply because owners dont comp hunt

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Old Post 01-31-2020 05:10 AM
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Surveyor
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1099

Re: Have to have all grand ped to make coondog

quote:
Originally posted by nextcoonhunters
Well for everyone that thinks you have to have an all grand ped to make a coondog, don't look at the top producing females in the January 2020 bloodlines.
Current
#1 is only a nitech
#4 only a nitech
what the bottom 3 only PR dogs

Historical
#1 only a nitech
#4,5,7,and 10 only nitech
# 8 only a PR dog
that means in the historical count only 4 out of the 10 are Grandnitech

Guess those good ole coondogs are coondogs and can reproduce coondogs regardless of how many times or if they never been hauled to town.
Just something to think about next time the all GRAND PED topic comes up. By the way, there is a male in the current that isn't even a nitech as well. They must be breeding on ability not just some title.


Interesting perception and it got me thinking enough to do a little research. First I'll point out there are very few all grand pedigrees in the Bluetick breed, personally I think that's a shame, though my hats off to the guys that have been able to put together a all grand pedigree, I prolly never will be able to. Second I'd point out that reproducing numbers are relative to titled dogs. Doesn't matter which go on to make Grand, once they are Nt ch, they are on the books as a nite hunt titled dog, so lets look at some numbers. The current Bluetick reproducers list features 10 females that have from 32.65 to 10 percent of their offspring have earned nite hunt titles, which average 17.88 percent. 7 of those 10 are titled females, so 70 percent of the current top reproducing Bluetick females are nite hunt titled themselves. Current top 10 reproducing Blue males have from 9.11 to 1.15 percent (4.478 percent average) titled offspring. 9 of the 10 are nite hunt titled (8 are grand), so 90 percent of the top current reproducing Bluetick males are nite hunt titled. Lets not stop there, lets look at Walkers, you know the ones shown all over Pro hound with big checks from winning elimination style nite hunts, while most of us Bluetickers watch from the side lines. On the walker top 10 reproducing females there are 2 nt ch and 8 gr nt ch, that have reproduced from 40 to 19.35 percent (22.79 percent average) titled offspring. So 100 percent of their top reproducing females are titled, plus they beat the blue's percentages by 10 percent. On the males, all 10 are grand nt ch, who reproduced from 17.24 to 8.18 (11.44 percent avg.) titled offspring, so 100 percent top walker reproducing males are grand nt and their average reproduction is almost triple that of our blue males. Given these facts do we really want to argue that non titled dogs are just as likely to reproduce titled dogs?

__________________
Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
UKC NT CH SHEPPARDS NORTHERN
BLUE LONER (RIP)
UKC GR NT CH RATTLERS BLUE SKY (RIP)
UKC Gr NT CH, PKC Ch Sheppard's Northern Blue Abbie, (PiazonxSky) UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Sheppards Northern Blue Punkin (PiazonXAlice) High scoring Bluetick of the 2015 (50th anniversary) Grand American, 2017 National Grand Nite Champion of breed, 2017 BBOA zone 4 Nite hunt dog of the year. Queen of hunt on 2019 Grand National Bluetick Reunion, 5th place and High Scoring Bluetick of 2019 UKC world Nite hunt Championship, 2019 Triple Crown Winner.
UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Mckintosh's Blue Flame Chopper
Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

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Old Post 01-31-2020 04:59 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Debate forever

To answer your question yeah I'll argue but it won't make a difference. Those numbers only factor in the nite titles. No way to know how many made coondogs. One way or the other. This could be debated forever just like everything else. Everyone has there own opinion. That's like saying hunting a bluetick with a mouth that sounds like nails down a chualk broad is fine if it can be titled so the male it's out of looks better on paper. One man's opinion. While a another man would shoot the mutt on account of it's mouth. Or having a handler put a title on a dog that can't tree a coon. Yep just like everything, up for debate and opinion. By the way talked to a well known blueticker who doesn't have a bluetick in fact just bought a walker pup, so he could get what he wanted. You said you'd probably never have an all grand ped, you could if would get a walker. Might even win the world. There pup fourm is a couple below the blueticks. Just depends on what you want. Just a question or two for you. So after your study are you saying don't breed untitled dogs to your stud? Have you ever bred an untitled dog to your stud? Did they turnout, or should have the cross never been made?

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Old Post 01-31-2020 06:10 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

All grand papers easy

All you need is a Grand Night Champion male and a Grand Night Champion female breed them and keep puppy papers. Then all the dogs on those papers are Grand Night Champion. You do realize if you follow any dog back far enough on paper you're going to come across a dog that is not titled. Believe it or not I have heard tales about coon dogs before you ukc even had hunts.

Went over some numbers myself. You know a bluetick has never even won the world hunt in all these years. With odds like that you would think UKC would just go ahead a ban em. Just some thoughts to go along with yours. Given these facts do you really want to argue the blueticks versus walkers?

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Old Post 01-31-2020 06:35 PM
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Surveyor
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1099

Your question did I ever breed a non titled dog to my stud is a no. The only females that I ever bred to my stud (Piazon) that I personally owned were titled. My comprehension of the bluetick vs walkers comparison was that they are kicking our butt in percentages both in titled dogs and major hunt wins and this is likely due to them not breeding ole so and so that hasn't been to a hunt, but has a fan group who says she's a good un-at least that's what the numbers indicate! Yes that means more and more hunters will go to the winners, so I think it proves that those of us like me that stick with our looser's need to only be breeding the best to the best if we want our breed to win anything big and continue to survive.

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Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
UKC NT CH SHEPPARDS NORTHERN
BLUE LONER (RIP)
UKC GR NT CH RATTLERS BLUE SKY (RIP)
UKC Gr NT CH, PKC Ch Sheppard's Northern Blue Abbie, (PiazonxSky) UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Sheppards Northern Blue Punkin (PiazonXAlice) High scoring Bluetick of the 2015 (50th anniversary) Grand American, 2017 National Grand Nite Champion of breed, 2017 BBOA zone 4 Nite hunt dog of the year. Queen of hunt on 2019 Grand National Bluetick Reunion, 5th place and High Scoring Bluetick of 2019 UKC world Nite hunt Championship, 2019 Triple Crown Winner.
UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Mckintosh's Blue Flame Chopper
Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

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Old Post 01-31-2020 07:47 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Hey Pizon

"Your question did I ever breed a non titled dog to my stud is a no"

Hey I've heard of Pizon. supposed to be a great hound. Isn't the Sugar pie female out of him? Can't remember what NITECH or Grand nite CH she's out of ???

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Old Post 01-31-2020 08:34 PM
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Surveyor
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1099

Sugar Pie is out of Piazon and a female out of Boomer. I really don't know much about her mother, I didn't own her.

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Mike Sheppard
Sheppard's Northern Blue's
Home of UKC GR NT CH, PKC CH
2 time world finalist, 10th overall and high scoring Bluetick of the 2010 UKC World Coonhound Championship
NASHOBA VALLEY PIAZON, (RIP)
his littermate brother
UKC NT CH SHEPPARDS NORTHERN
BLUE LONER (RIP)
UKC GR NT CH RATTLERS BLUE SKY (RIP)
UKC Gr NT CH, PKC Ch Sheppard's Northern Blue Abbie, (PiazonxSky) UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Sheppards Northern Blue Punkin (PiazonXAlice) High scoring Bluetick of the 2015 (50th anniversary) Grand American, 2017 National Grand Nite Champion of breed, 2017 BBOA zone 4 Nite hunt dog of the year. Queen of hunt on 2019 Grand National Bluetick Reunion, 5th place and High Scoring Bluetick of 2019 UKC world Nite hunt Championship, 2019 Triple Crown Winner.
UKC GR NT CH 'pr' Mckintosh's Blue Flame Chopper
Gr Nt Ch Sheppards Northern Blue Goomba (Piazon X Dizzie) 14th place 2017 UKC world coon hound championship 100 purina point cast wins in 2018
and several other blueticks of lesser accomplishments

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Old Post 01-31-2020 08:39 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Sacrifices

Some breeds bred to win at the big hunts. Some breed for what they believe to be bluetick qualities, good mouth looks and cold nose. In breeding rarely does one get everything they want ( the perfect hound). Even less rare is that everyone agrees on what a perfect hound is. It is all a matter of what rabbit hole you wish to go down. My point was that a PR dog can reproduce a coondog and from reading your post I've drawn the conclusion, that your opinion is we should be more like walker guys and breed to what's winning. Regardless of what rabbit hole we go down. I for one am not going to lead a dog that sounds like a Chihuahua. I hunt alot and that would get on my nerves. If that's the only way I could have a winner than yes I'd just pleasure hunt from now on and be fine with it. Very body has there own opinions, but saying a pr dog shouldn't be breed because it doesn't have a title, is like saying blueticks shouldn't be hunted because one has never won the world. It is all a matter of opinion. Just like saying I'd never breed a PR dog, but if you have one sure breed it to my stud. If it's wrong it's wrong, if it's not it's not. Reminds me of ole Bill Clinton " I did not have a sexual relationship with that woman", she had one with me.

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Old Post 01-31-2020 08:51 PM
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BluBritches
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2015
Location: missouri
Posts: 248

Let's ruffle some feathers

quote:
Originally posted by BluBritches
Just for thought

Scrolling thru info and see a dog no title no ped ain't heard of it so move right on along..........

Smiley's blue rambo II was bred to clear river curlee 5 times for a total of 27 puppies 6 grnitech & 4 nitech leaving 17 pr siblings (random famous cross)
We scroll and see grch grnitech pr smiley's blue rambo III puppies bam you have my attention same with littermate grnitech grch pr clear river diamond jim

Now I know without my cheat sheets I could read at least 10 siblings names and not realize that barn pup I ain't ever heard was actually out of a very famous cross
Of course the owner says "I dont pay attention to bloodlines" but that was the best coondog I ever owned..........

Now you have a dog no one has heard of so it gets dismissed but for the ones that chase the blood you find this rambo x curlee male that this guy bred to his best female right before he died at 12 years old and he has a male out of that cross still alive and healthy....... hmmmmm by the way the females ped turned out to be special too. Time to go for a hunt !!! (Just as an example)

That part was for the barn hounds but seriously on 1/17/99 diamond jim and Rambo III was born do we dismiss the capabilities of 17 siblings simply because owners dont comp hunt




Name a well known hound (any one you want) and I'll bet ya I can find a fairly closely related registered dog (no saying I'd call it a hound) that most have never heard of that can hang with that well known grnitech...... not points on paper MEAT in the pot at the end of the week
^^^^^ no need to make that an actual bet. Point is 100 puppies born we can say 30% title out (I know high # right) it leaves 70 registered hounds......who knows why they are not titled maybe cat hunters farm boys that dont comp died early age (hear lots of dual grand pups get lead poisoning) or maybe owner had no business training a puppy
BOTTOM line these 70 dogs have the same blood backing them
Not saying 100% of puppies turn out but if the true #s are 10% shoot the parents and start over
Hey maybe it's just my opinion but the way I see it there is tremendous POWER out there that has never been to town

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Old Post 01-31-2020 09:26 PM
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BluBritches
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Location: missouri
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Old Post 01-31-2020 09:28 PM
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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Hmmm

quote:
Originally posted by Surveyor
[B Your question did I ever breed a non titled dog to my stud is a no.....breeding ole so and so that hasn't been to a hunt, but has a fan group who says she's a good un [/B]


Sorry who was Sugar Pie out of??? Ole So and So?

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Old Post 01-31-2020 10:53 PM
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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
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Posts: 2072

If you are buying a pup to hunt wouldn't it make more sense to buy 1 from a pedigree with more titled dogs than a pedigree with no titles? It's just common sense. Sure a pup with no titles dogs in the pedigree can be a top-notch coon hound. I will let someone else take there chance with that one given the choice.
You always hear the excuse that somewhere ,some one titled out some dog that couldn't tree a coon . Well which pedigree had a dog in it that couldn't tree a coon the all grand or the no titles but there good un's behind the barn? Common sense will tell ya the truth.
Jealousy shouldn't replace common sense but obviously it does.

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Old Post 02-01-2020 02:24 PM
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BluBritches
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2015
Location: missouri
Posts: 248

Kinda true

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
If you are buying a pup to hunt wouldn't it make more sense to buy 1 from a pedigree with more titled dogs than a pedigree with no titles? It's just common sense. Sure a pup with no titles dogs in the pedigree can be a top-notch coon hound. I will let someone else take there chance with that one given the choice.
You always hear the excuse that somewhere ,some one titled out some dog that couldn't tree a coon . Well which pedigree had a dog in it that couldn't tree a coon the all grand or the no titles but there good un's behind the barn? Common sense will tell ya the truth.
Jealousy shouldn't replace common sense but obviously it does.



I couldn't make the trip to Michigan so I relied on the ped when I bought tipsy
And yes it made the most sense for my situation at that time
The other shoe tho....... I never hunted with them so there are lots of things I dont know (by know I mean see with my own eyes)
Titles and pad are great from afar but hands on experience with a hound will imo show things papers never can nose mouth style ect
Ps hands on experience (especially in barn dogs) I mean hunt with them pups off of them siblings to the sire n dam....... hunt with as much as I can
Ultimately in an cross from all grand or barn hounds your banking on the blood behind them and you cant know it all ever......... research is easy compared to buying subpar puppies regardless of titles or lack there of

This is just my opinion but I have yet to see a dog that suddenly became a better hound because it got a title in front of its name
Thru research and hunts I know of some registered litters I'd buy from over an all grand ped but regardless buying a puppy without researching it does seem silly

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Old Post 02-01-2020 05:20 PM
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BluBritches
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2015
Location: missouri
Posts: 248

Traits over titles

Maybe this will sum my thought process up better
I'm not naming any names here either way because it's not about slamming or promoting of hounds here it's in general

I've hunted with "high power big name dual grands" and I'm not jealous of them I'm not even saying they are not coondogs but they wouldn't suit me
Maybe I consider their mouth subpar (or even down right annoyingly bad)
Maybe they are to independent because ultimately I want a hound I enjoy hunting with friends during the week
Maybe they are great on hot tracks but ain't got the nose to move those bad tracks (undeniable you're not winning hunts running cold hard tracks very often)

I've hunted with hounds that have never seen a comp hunt that flat make my prize dogs look silly at times

My big point is an all grand title ped doesn't mean I'm getting a puppy with the traits I want........ hunting and research isn't enough to guarantee that pup is what I'm wanting either but it helps narrow that gap. For instance I buy a pup simply because it has an all grand ped and it makes a top notch hound but everytime it barks I wish I had ear plugs. Now do i settle for a mouth i hate or do i move on? For me i move on
And YES same for barn hounds bad traits should be unacceptable period.Title ped or no name dogs I'm more interested in the traits being exhibited by the hound than some extra ink on its papers
Pups ain't born with their parents grnitech titles they are born with their parents traits good and bad

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wakenda creek b
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 946

I’ve hunted with a few grand nites I wouldn’t feed and I’ve hunted with a lot of open registered dogs I wouldn’t feed. I like my dogs to have titles because if I own them they are my type of hound. The titles help you sell hounds and pups is all. They give your dog a little recognition. Some folks breed for mouth, size, color, genetics, and all sorts of other stuff. I want my dogs to be able to win in the hunts at all levels and be a pleasure to hunt too.

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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Truth

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I will let someone else take there chance with that one given the choice.

So you have never bred to or bought a pup out of a PR dog. EVER in all your years of hunting? Because I'm sure unless you bought it or bred it before any registry started you had a choice. Or are you another half story teller, like the other one?
As far as what I would want one out of. If you told me I could have one out of a Grand Night female that had been bred to four different Grand night males 40 puppies on the ground all have been shot. Or PR dog that has that has 40 puppies on the ground and 20 of them turned out and some even titled, well I guess I would just have to go with the pr dog. Pretty common sense to me.

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BluBritches
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2015
Location: missouri
Posts: 248

Buying pups

quote:
Originally posted by wakenda creek b
I’ve hunted with a few grand nites I wouldn’t feed and I’ve hunted with a lot of open registered dogs I wouldn’t feed. I like my dogs to have titles because if I own them they are my type of hound. The titles help you sell hounds and pups is all. They give your dog a little recognition. Some folks breed for mouth, size, color, genetics, and all sorts of other stuff. I want my dogs to be able to win in the hunts at all levels and be a pleasure to hunt too.


Agreed

Titles do help sell pups and give your dog recognition and kudos to those that haul their dogs to town spend money to enter the comp hunts
They want their dogs recognized and given the effort they deserve to have their name known

But having that title will never automatically make them a better hound or producer than the dog that was picked by the guy that doesn't comp hunt
Leaves us with selling pups......YES titled dogs pups sell and many of these pups are bought because of a name rather than hands on experience
If you choose titled litters I'm ok with that where the problem comes in is buying a pup without knowing what traits you're buying. Honestly I think most buy a pup (titled or untitled dosen't matter) and have their money and time in them they get attached and they settle for subpar traits because the dog is Supposed to be special....... dont settle later research now

By keeping an open mind to quality traits in untitled dogs I open a much wider market. I give myself more options. I dont limit myself by a kennel name either. My view is a good hound is good regardless of where I found it or where it comes from. Thus far I've limited myself to blue dogs and honestly that's probably a flaw on my part. If I'd open up to other breeds I could expand my chances of owning an exceptional hound. As Im blabbering on I might note as well I'm not talking average hounds they are a dime a dozen. I'm talking well above average in every department hounds..... all around coondogs

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nextcoonhunters
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2015
Location: mo
Posts: 749

Pam

Don't mean any disrespect. Just trying to see your point of view. But are you saying you wouldn't have a pup out of the reproducers on the list that ain't titled? Regardless of the fact they've proven they can reproduce. And yes I do believe " jealousy should never replace common sense but obviously it does"

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wakenda creek b
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Registered: Jul 2006
Location: Carrollton,Missouri
Posts: 946

I agree. A lot of people get attached to there dogs that would be culled by a lot of us. I was attached to my first coonhound and he was a deer running machine. I let that line die out because of the flaws I seen.

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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 2072

Traits are a great way to go can't argue with that.
Sure enough way to many get attached and settle for subpar dogs.
Sitting here trying to think about the pups I have bought, breed and weather they are all titled parents. I can say i never bred dogs that wasn't titled both sides of the pedigree. I have one right now that the dam is a titleless bitch but she was purchased for me as a gift. I have not purchased any myself that the parents weren't titled in a long time. I have trained a couple free ones that 1 or the other parents wasn't titled.

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