Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1237

How about one handler being able to handle and call 2 dogs call it a brace hunt.

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Registered: Dec 2006
Location: Springfield, Ga.
Posts: 4254

To many hunts is not the problem. I have been all over the country to the larger hunts and a multitude of local hunts, both UKC and PKC. The real hard fact is that at both registries, you see the same folks hunting. Very few new ones are coming in. You could make it to where a club could have 365 hunts a year per registry, and it would still not change the fact that the number of people hunting is way down....EVERYWHERE. There are a lot of factors as to why. The most common answer is the youth love their social media devices more than the physical having to get out and get into the woods. I believe that is a large part of it. They aren't going to be disconnected from their friends long enough to do a hunt. I see it all the time, and I see it in my own families youth. Everyone complains about cheating or getting cheated in the hunts. It does happen, and yes there are crooks in every sport, but I would bet for the most part, most folks want to and try to get things done right. The real fact in the cheating complaint is that most times the complainer just does not know the rules, or got out dogged and can't seem to admit it. In the rare occasion that you are cheated, the rules are in place to take care of the problem, and if need be, one must stand up and write the complaint down and get it to the proper people so justice can be given. A lot like our court system. Is justice always done? Again in rare instants NO. MOST times it is. The other problem with numbers has to do with Land Availability. Face it. There is not anymore land being made, and how we take care of what we have has a lot to do with its staying available to guide to. There are those who trash a place, and they won't keep it long. Then you have the ones who always try to do right, but the land owner passes and his/her heirs don't want anyone there, or the land just sells, so someone can make a quick dollar. Those are a few problems with private land. Public land is even worse, at least here in Georgia. A coon hunter can actually get a permit to hold a field trail about 6 weekends per year in the wma's in my area, if they are lucky. On the weeknights, they stand a better chance, but for the most part, if a DEER Hunter Complains, the wildlife rule writers write the small game hunter out of the picture. WHY? its called MONEY and POLITICS. That's a marriage that will never get a divorce, and you'll get slapped for sure if you get in their way. There is no one solution to the problems, but get more places to hunt, and things may turn for the better somewhat. How do you do that? You have to get some younger more energetic folks out there shaking the bushes. Some of us old folks are just to tired of the hassle to worry about it any longer. Around here, most of us have just decided to hunt out our days when and where we can pleasure wise, and the rest just happens. sometimes it is just simpler to go fishing.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

I agree with everything you said rock !! A big factor your up against is you have two kc's that no matter what there is a winner I call it plan B lol. Yes there was a lot of coons treed at the last $$$$ world hunt but there was also dogs that advanced with zero. Not that I think you should win anything unless you tree a coon but an easy fix is place non cast winners with plus points now I know I upset all them old guys setting on the dead ****** bench when I say that .............. Buuuuuut I am an old guy too and its not ours to to dictate till we run it in the ground anymore I got a son a he is wound tight about it and I see what his and some other young ones want hey drive inn movies are making a comeback out dated yes fun ? You ain't a woofen!!! Maybe when we make all these changes it should be more about having fun than stroking our ego being mr coonhunters.


Think about it !!


Tar

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1869

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Not that I think you should win anything unless you tree a coon but an easy fix is place non cast winners with plus points now I know I upset all them old guys setting on the dead ****** bench when I say that ..............
Tar

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Let me ask you an honest question if you won at a pro hunt and you had double cast wins of zero to advance and the check was $10,000 would you cash it ? I crappen would !! The giving places for non cast winners with plus points is harmless it's an added attraction to get people to the hunts and bigger numbers which means you probly going to have to beat way more dogs to win first it's the same principle as the $$$$ hunts but hey you got to realize something ukc ain't even close to being broke the clubs are !! Y'all old guys that don't like change it ain't hurting nobody but you dog papers will still be sold. Not nocking not being negative I will just accept what ever happens. My time is up I have given all I got to give like rock said I got a boat and the fish will be biting somewhere !!


Tar

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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1869

I still would have won my cast correct? it's not like I got second place in the cast and got to advance.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

His fault for not checking the card better not yours if I got the cast won I am going over that card with a fine toothed comb.



Tar

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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1565

See I still don't understand, there's nothing that's going to change. Its simple, the rules comity has had the option to change the rules for how many years now? Nothing has changed really. We've beaten this dead horse for a long time, its still a dead horse. I'm still going to be hunting the other registries. I'm sorry but regardless if you win your cast with plus minus or circle, a win is a win. People can tell me until they're blue in the face that well we WIN with plus points only. UKC isn't about who has the best dog, never was. Its obvious by the hunt format. If you don't have late rounds its impossible to find out who has the better dog. Right?
What I'm trying to say is unless the rules change to fit that format. You won't be attractive for the masses. You can have the best dog in the country, but if you draw a guide that dry holes you. You already lost before casting your dog. And like someone else has stated, he doesn't take a cast to his good spots for fear of the guys going back to hunt there after the fact. And in $kc there's rules in place for this very thing. And since those rules have been in place I haven't heard of anyone doing this. And around here the private ground to hunt usually you're not the only one that has permission.

All's you have to do is take a step back and look at the big picture and you'll understand what I'm trying to say. The guys hunting the other registries aren't always there for the cash. Some are there for the reasons I've stated.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Wouldn't it be better to give a win to a dog that won his cast with least minus than to a dog that actually came in second in his cast? I understand your point about increasing participation by giving more people a chance to win. I myself don't go to some UKC club hunts because too many casts are dead. But I think having a winner in each cast is a better solution than having 4 winners in one cast and 0 winners in the other 3 casts. Handlers will just lay back and take 2nd or 3rd because they will still get a win.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Anything to get them to come and participate and stay I ain't closed minded on anything but more attendance more wins given means more paperwork for ukc that means they would have to hire some more Eskimos and I think they like it like it is !! But I could be wrong.




Tar

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Anything to get them to come and participate and stay I ain't closed minded on anything but more attendance more wins given means more paperwork for ukc that means they would have to hire some more Eskimos and I think they like it like it is !! But I could be wrong.




Tar

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
...... But I could be wrong....Tar

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Or you could just be saying that to try and piss off Allen G because that is the kind of guy you are.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Come on Joey I ain't no dummy on money. If you want to we will call it corporate downsizing I been in retail for the last ten years I know exactly how it works. You got a home base that is 1000 's of miles away from everybody you go up on your fees to make up for less participation still get fees off the ones that show up then you try and handle the paperwork with a 40 hrs work week. And the ones putting on the hunts and working all night for free have to come out of our pocket to pay the bills on a bad turnout. That's why when you go to Walmart now there are 30 check out lines and 5 checkers and they just did away with the door greeters. Thing about ukc poochie dogs just eat and dookie and their papers pay just as much we might just be more trouble than we are worth lol.



Tar

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Or you could just be saying that to try and piss off Allen G because that is the kind of guy you are.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Or you could be a butt smooch that will agree to anything as long as they let you set next to them and you never have to do no work lol.
Tar

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I can't really argue with that.... That is me. I just agree to everything and never complain.

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

You ever heard that song here in the real world ? I ain't complaining but they don't know if you don't tell them I will let it go now I am not satisfied with being complacent and being an underachiever I have fought for what I believed in my whole life. All I want is for ukc to make the other two kc's to take notice and they have the ability to and ole tar will stand right beside them and fight they ain't an inch of backup in me.



See ya me and the wife are going fishing. $$$ hunt tonight. Ada Oklahoma tomorrow night busy, busy ,busy.




Tar

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 1009

Almost 60% say don't change anything & just let the decline continue. Even though UKCs administrative fees are substantially more than are needed to effectively run the performance program, if they continue to decrease at some point it won't be cost effective to keep the program running..

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Shane

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

UKC set up the Performance Program for comp coonhunters. The coonhunters all said that was what they wanted. If the comp coonhunters don't participate then apparantly they don't want it and UKC should just drop it.
The same can be said for the Super Slam Program. A lot of the most vociferous coonhunters said they wanted big money hunts with an even bigger money hunt at the end of the year. So UKC set up the Performance Program. Now if the coonhunters don't participate, then they didn't really want the big money hunts.
Maybe coonhunters just like to complain and when they have more programs they have more to complain about. Whatever happened to just dealing with what you have and being happy with it. My first wife was never happy with what she had. She always wanted more. It took me a few years and I went through a lot of changes before I realized that me changing was never going to make her happy so we split. I learned to just be who I am and not change myself to make someone else happy. I learned that if you don't like me that is your problem, not mine.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 03-23-2018 at 05:34 PM

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Tar, I know you are trying your best with your club and I'm glad there are people like you trying to keep something going. The kennel clubs "all of them" do not seem to be as concerned about the club's as they should be. I love to hunt in all of them, but if entries are not increased somehow they are going to loose a large chunk of there revenue. The big hunts have great turn out but even they can not be put on without the local club.

The problem is we have a small number of participant's being spread across a increasing amount of hunts. At the same time the interest in those hunts are declining. If all those people are not wanting to come to a sanctioned hunt then try non sanctioned ones. If you can't get interest there then shut down the club. There obviously isn't enough interest in the area to support it. Those guys in that area that do want to go will go to another near by club and they will be able to put on a better quality hunt.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Maybe Joey has the right idea. Everyone that thinks there are too many hunts should propose to their club that they only hold 3 hunts of each registry per year. That would decrease the number of hunts. Instead of having a bunch of small hunts you would have a few big hunts. And since your club is losing money on those small hunts then you would lose less money. If too many hunts is the problem then there is a very easy change that can be made without any action needed by the Kennel Clubs.

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Registered: Jan 2017
Location: mccomb, ms
Posts: 181

quote:

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Originally posted by MR.RATMAN
Who wants things left the way they are with the hunts ????
Who wants to see state race, breed race, 10 cast wins for ntch, 10 more cast wins for grnt, all dogs hunt together, 2hr hunts weekends only

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Joey there are 3 local boys from here hunting up there at the nationals all three are hunting Grntchs they trained one got a double cast win last night they have hunted every night there is money down here and people willing to spend it buuuuuuuut ain't nothing interesting enough for them to buy. You of all people know there is some heavy dog power down this way people just got tired of driving 16 hrs and get dry holed first couple times you do it you have fun after that it gets old quick.




Tar

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Registered: May 2007
Location:
Posts: 1009

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
UKC set up the Performance Program for comp coonhunters. The coonhunters all said that was what they wanted. If the comp coonhunters don't participate then apparantly they don't want it and UKC should just drop it.

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Registered: Jul 2010
Location: ohio
Posts: 219

first off i am not a pkc hunter,tried a couple of them not my cup of tea.so thats why i became a master of hounds for pkc.so thre was no conflict.now i do hunt in ukc hunts alot.from the 2 if you take the bad apples out of both,overall are not bad.at the least both need to tighten up the gray areas.ukc only lets the clubs hold 7 events a yr.and if you want you can hold a super slam.so now your up to 8.then if you do a benfit hunt that is reconized by ukc now you have 9.and you also can have the yelp for the youth.in my opion thats where both need to put there concern is a better program for the youth.its fine they both have state hunts,breed hunts and so forth.pkc hunts 2 hunts a month x 12 thats 24.outside of having a hunt strickly for the youth in pkc.they are competeing with all the older guys.maybe if they do what akc does with the youth they can have there own cast as long as there are at least 2 youths,that way there is a true winner with the youth.and at the local clubs you have 95 precent of the same guys at the pkc level.so they want to keep the winners local or come to the majority of there hunts.what i try and do at our club is if you are a guide you dont judge vise versa.to get more turnout at all clubs,they need to group together and hold a big hunt.and work with each other.look where the blue ribbon or pro hunts are on a bais usually the same area.ukc maybe they need to do the same.as far as making it more harder to put a title on your dog.maybe they need to say make a grand nite gotta have a win at a bigger hunt.that would go to pkc also.for instance i know of a guy that got his dog to silver and he only goes to 2 diffrent clubs.and the most they have at any given event it 2 cast.again just my opion..dont want to ruffle anyones feathers.

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Registered: Oct 2010
Location: La fayette Georgia
Posts: 2144

I want change , everybody quit complaining

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