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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17536

If a dog that backs another dog is so bad, why don't we just scratch any dog that backs another dog? Maybe that will be the next rule change in 2021.
And to get rid of the babbling dogs we could scratch any dog that opened on track.

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Old Post 09-07-2019 04:24 AM
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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4756

Hey if the dog can't handle tracks and isn't quick just make him a 100% dead loaner. No competition, nothing to worry about he will win his share even if he can't run a track.

It works.

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jdc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 265

Maybe they just need to be taught to cover quicker like at 1:59. LOL

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9435

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If a dog that backs another dog is so bad, why don't we just scratch any dog that backs another dog? Maybe that will be the next rule change in 2021.
And to get rid of the babbling dogs we could scratch any dog that opened on track.





Richard only attend those Purina all red dog hunts and you will have loads of fun because everybodyís dog will be just like yours and you wonít have any walker dogs there to beat you and upset you.


Tarbaby

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Old Post 09-07-2019 05:19 AM
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G.W. Harring
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2016
Location: Nebraska
Posts: 35

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If a dog that backs another dog is so bad, why don't we just scratch any dog that backs another dog? Maybe that will be the next rule change in 2021.
And to get rid of the babbling dogs we could scratch any dog that opened on track.


I may be wrong here, but as I understand it the people who voted on the new rules and those who support them don't all feel that a dog backing another dog is so bad. They still get points on a coon that is already been treed...if they are an under 2 minute backer that is.
But after 2 mins they are considered "slow to get treed" on an already treed coon and they only get 25 points. And any dog that rolls in after 3 mins on a treed coon are either REALLY slow or just a Mee Too dog and THEN they draw minus. That's the way I understand it anyway.

As far as the babblers.....I say give'm all equal strike points. Better yet, equal strike points AND only give points for 1st tree!! That takes care of the barkers and the backers and promotes the best coondog.
Oh my goodness, then you could only win by having the fastest track dog and the most accurate. JMO

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Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4185

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If a dog that backs another dog is so bad, why don't we just scratch any dog that backs another dog? Maybe that will be the next rule change in 2021.
And to get rid of the babbling dogs we could scratch any dog that opened on track.


In your own famous words oh my goodness!
Just what time frame if you were writing rules would you give a dog to cover the dog that treed a coon first and the fastest? I can see that you don't think 3 minutes is long enough just how long do you think is?

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Seneca , MO
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GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
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Old Post 09-07-2019 06:56 AM
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Redneck Mafia
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4185

Kash fell asleep while we were hunting so I did some math for you Richard.
A dog that runs at 1 mph will cover 1,760 yards in 1 hour, 29.3 in a minute, 87. 9 in 3 minutes. Many dogs run at double digit speeds on average but for the sake of argument let's keep it at a slower pace. A dog running at 7 mph will go 615.3 yards in 3 minutes. If a dog is going 7 mph slower and 615.3 yards and 3 minutes behind the leader of the pack how many points should he receive for treeing with the 1st dog there?

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Seneca , MO
(417)317-4815
GRNITECH PKC SCH REDNECK MAFIA
NAT GRNITECH GRCH GRNITECH(3) PKC PCH REDNECK BACKWOODS SHACK
2014 OK STATE CH, 2015 MO PKC LEADER, 2016 PKC NATIONALS SEMIFINALIST, 2016 UKC TOP 20, 2O17 UKC WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP 3RD PLACE, 2018 PKC SENIOR SHOWDOWN TRUCK HUNT FINAL 4, 2018 MO PKC STATE CHAMPION, 2019 AUTUMN OAKS NATIONAL GRNITE CH, 2019 PKC WORLD CH SEMIFINALIST.
GRNITECH CH PKC CH REDNECK SHACK ATTACK aka TAC 2018 OKLAHOMA STATE CHAMPION

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Old Post 09-07-2019 07:26 AM
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Josh Michaelis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2063

If you think that it is okay to have a dog come in to a tree that a dog has already been treed on for 3 minutes your opinion is not valid on anything related to competition coon hunting rules.

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cole run
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2017
Location:
Posts: 219

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
Kash fell asleep while we were hunting so I did some math for you Richard.
A dog that runs at 1 mph will cover 1,760 yards in 1 hour, 29.3 in a minute, 87. 9 in 3 minutes. Many dogs run at double digit speeds on average but for the sake of argument let's keep it at a slower pace. A dog running at 7 mph will go 615.3 yards in 3 minutes. If a dog is going 7 mph slower and 615.3 yards and 3 minutes behind the leader of the pack how many points should he receive for treeing with the 1st dog there?

I canít wait to hear the kings reply on this

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Old Post 09-07-2019 11:44 AM
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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1675

I can't wait to hear how you can walk 15 minutes out on the leash with 2 dogs treed and 1 on track at a AO and it's A ok?

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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 248

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I can't wait to hear how you can walk 15 minutes out on the leash with 2 dogs treed and 1 on track at a AO and it's A ok?
If you feel secure about your score itís your option is my opinion.

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Old Post 09-07-2019 01:59 PM
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Chad spencer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2012
Location: Swmo
Posts: 101

And so it begins. Took longer than I figured for the bashing of Dalton and Shack to start. People need to grow up not everyone deserves a trophy

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Old Post 09-07-2019 02:14 PM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 248

quote:
Originally posted by Chad spencer
And so it begins. Took longer than I figured for the bashing of Dalton and Shack to start. People need to grow up not everyone deserves a trophy
Am telling you. Be happy for the guy. If people would hunt like him an his family they could walk the last 15 too. Smart fella if you ask me.

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pigsit
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Mar 2009
Location: OKLA
Posts: 1095

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
I can't wait to hear how you can walk 15 minutes out on the leash with 2 dogs treed and 1 on track at a AO and it's A ok?
Read the rules, two dogs treed, one trailing, he had the option to either cut or leave the dog on the lead, he chose to leave him on the lead.

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Old Post 09-07-2019 02:32 PM
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Chad spencer
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2012
Location: Swmo
Posts: 101

Very good family. Have known them for years. Donít understand why people canít just be happy for others. And not start drama

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Old Post 09-07-2019 02:37 PM
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jdc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: MO
Posts: 265

Why would Dalton recut he was going to win without treeing another one it was his best option and a good handling move. If you don't understand that then you don't understand the current rule structure. I would also say it remains to be seen if recuts next year will be an option or if they will be mandatory.

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Old Post 09-07-2019 03:16 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17536

quote:
Originally posted by Chad spencer
....... Donít understand why people canít just be happy for others. And not start drama....


There you go Mr Run, there is your answer.

Jen, in my country, no dog trails in double digits. They do good to go 3-4 mph unless they are running a deer or bear. And don't believe everything your Garmin tells you. Get in a four wheeler and try to drive through the woods at 10 mph the next time that you are just sitting there figuring. Then just imagine a dog going that fast and working a track at the same time.
But I am on your side now. If a dog backs another dog at any time they should just be scratched. I know that the Rules committee gave them 3 minutes this year but since dogs can't tell time or don't carry a stopwatch, it might as well be 1 minute. As has been pointed out by others, everyone will now just have to break their dogs from backing period. Apparantly, that is what the majority wants to see. Either get/train an independent to a fault dog (sorry, I just can't quit calling it a fault) or quit comp hunting. I guess that we all have until Jan 1st to decide which it will be.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 09-07-2019 at 04:53 PM

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Old Post 09-07-2019 03:22 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17536

quote:
Originally posted by Redneck Mafia
In your own famous words oh my goodness!
Just what time frame if you were writing rules would you give a dog to cover the dog that treed a coon first and the fastest? I can see that you don't think 3 minutes is long enough just how long do you think is?



I think that 3 minutes is OK, but a graduated countdown like they have in PKC is better. If you read what I have posted, you would see that my problem is "assigning" tree points and then minusing them and the strike points. Several of my dogs don't like to tree with another dog that beats them to a tree. They will look all around and finally back the other dog. While I would prefer they tree first and about half of the time they do, I don't have a problem with them eventually backing the other dog. In my area, there is usually only one coon to tree and they can't just go on and find another one. Only getting 0 or 25 tree points won't put them completely out of the hunt but getting 75-50 and their strike minused will.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 09-07-2019 at 04:55 PM

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Old Post 09-07-2019 03:30 PM
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Donnie Stevens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
Posts: 2370

If they ain't there within three mins they need minused but I'm not sure about -75. If all they get at 2:59 is 25 don't seem right to give them 75 at 3:01.

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pamjohnson
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2012
Location: airville,pa
Posts: 1675

quote:
Originally posted by pigsit
Read the rules, two dogs treed, one trailing, he had the option to either cut or leave the dog on the lead, he chose to leave him on the lead.
that's just it I don't know the rules on that situation.
Let's hear where and what rule that is.be cause I never knew this could be done.

Bashing no
I'm I ignorant of the rules? Maybe

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Old Post 09-07-2019 05:42 PM
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Donnie Stevens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia,Canada
Posts: 2370

quote:
Originally posted by pamjohnson
that's just it I don't know the rules on that situation.
Let's hear where and what rule that is.be cause I never knew this could be done.



Rule 11 b. Handlers have the option to hold onto or release dogs so long as at least one dog is not declared treed.

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Old Post 09-07-2019 05:59 PM
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Nathan Phenix
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 344

I'm with Richard on this. Count down is fine 3 min is fine. Think both was needed rules. But I dont like minus dog that cover after 3 min both ways for 2 reasons. 1 a dog that is treed and recut has to be real broke not to cover another dig treed close and I think a man shouldnt have break his dog not cover if he chooses. Makes pleasure hunt same dog you comp hunt harder for older people and kids. After all if your dog treed for 125 and dog cover and get 25 minus that giving you minimum 150 over covering dog. Second reason is lots young guys just starting out dont have dog skills train dog not cover or even have another dog to train there's with not cover. Lots young guys goin get discouraged when they eat big chunk of minus all time.

Here what I believe rule should be anything covers on dead tree coon, slick or circle delete strike give them 25 minus simple easy and seems more fair.

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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9435

I look at it different I guess. If my dog is on a separate coon than the other dogs it should go on and tree it no matter what they are doing. If my dog is on the same coon as the others I promise you if my dog ainít in front itís going to be right behind and crowding the one that is.



Thatís just plain old high caliber competition. You wanna race get a race car.


Tar

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Old Post 09-07-2019 06:32 PM
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ov_blues
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2007
Location: Pomeroy, Ohio
Posts: 2598

Here is another scenario. Say Dog A is treed and scored, then recast after Dog B is treed thru the country. Dog A is struck back in for next available on a different track but drops that track and gets to Dog B's tree before the cast gets there. Currently Dog A would have a line under it's strike and it would not become live to minus it's strike points. Now Dog A will at least get minus points on the tree at next available (or 25 depending on how UKC words it and interprets it).

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Old Post 09-07-2019 06:33 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17536

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Thatís just plain old high caliber competition. You wanna race get a race car.
Tar



Tarbaby, can you drive a race car on the street?
It looks like I only have 3 more months to comp hunt and then I might as well quit and just pleasure hunt.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 09-07-2019 at 06:45 PM

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