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Bruce m. Conkey
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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
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Can someone explain WHY all the changes.

This is not about if the rule changes are right or wrong. This is not about if you and I like them or we don't.

I am just very curious what happen to allow all these changes to happen in one year.

I personally thought that this year we would have a small change or two. But if nothing changed, that wouldn't have surprised me.

Well I did get surprised. So what happen to allow all these changes.

Was it a change in the format on how the rules are voted on. Is it a complete changing of the guard when it comes on who votes. Was it held late a night when the old people had fell to sleep? Something happed to the way the rules changes were handled in the past. Any ideas on what it was?

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Corey Gruver
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Conneaut Lake, PA
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Bruce, I was surprised too.

I'd say more than anything, what we are seeing is the culmination of at least four to five years of pressure from those in favor of rule changes that adapt UKC events to better fit the mold of "money" formats and events.

Probably more so to fit the style of dog we are seeing nowadays that compete in those types of formats.

Personally, I am not in favor of rules being voted upon and changed every four years. Even further than that, I've never been in favor of UKC modeling any programs and rules to be more like the other registries, but these rule proposals seem to be "good common ground".

I like them. Plain and simple. They seem like they will be easy to execute without judges having to carry four stopwatches and put in any extra effort.

I'm looking forward to 2020

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yadkintar
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Due to a younger costumer base and the style of dog being not attractive to follow for older hunters. Ukc put a set of rules together that will attract both. Then with the addition of money being added to be won they knew that f they made you have to go to the local level hunts to advance it would help the local level clubs get back on their feet by generating interest. I applaud them if your competitive they now have many different style of hunts from traditional to hunting for $200,000 surely somthing will fit what a person likes.



Tar

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Bruce m. Conkey
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.

Corey you are correct.

I think trying to be like the other guy or trying to have the rules fit the mold of the dogs comp hunters are hunting today is putting the cart before the horse.

I think a group of knowledgeable men, kinda of like it was done many years ago for the first set of rules. Should sit down and figure out how a coon hound should operate. Then rules (simple rules) should be put in place to award or minus a dog for his performance to a coon hound standard. If there is such a thing anymore.

Seriously we have gotten into the mindset of your dog totally alone all night long. That doesn't make for a pleasurable hunt most of the time, except for the winner. Especially in an area of thin coon when miles can separate dogs being treed.
I don't mind it pleasure hunting. I can go a mile that way in my buggy and get close. Walk a hundred yards and get my dog. Then drive two miles the other direction and get close and walk a hundred yards and get my other dog. In a comp hunt all those miles eliminate a lot of hunters and spots that can be hunted.

Guess we just have to watch and hope it comes out for the best. UKC took some bold steps and I wish them nothing but the best. This sport is surly not for the grand pa's any more.

Funny we talk about teaching the young. The young are going a completely opposite direction. Guess we either didn't teach them very well or they didn't listen.

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Bruce m. Conkey
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Location: Palatka, FL
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.

Tar the $200,000 sure sound nice. Especially when the past amouts haven't been close to that. Yes, UKC is to be congratulated on some bold steps.

But then reality comes in. I have had the good fortune to have several dogs that made the final four competing for Trucks and thousands of dollars cash. Several dogs in the top 20 of National Championships and World Championships. Proud to be there. But the third and fourth place finishes in those final cast or top 20 of a World Championship hunt comes out to maybe $15,000 dollars total winnings when a first place in those hunts would have been well over $150,000. I don't care how much is advertised. If you don't win first you generally are not covering expenses. Like I have heard you say many times. But is is fun trying.

But that is the game we play and UKC has increased the purse for their game. That is a good thing.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9328

Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Corey you are correct.

I think trying to be like the other guy or trying to have the rules fit the mold of the dogs comp hunters are hunting today is putting the cart before the horse.

I think a group of knowledgeable men, kinda of like it was done many years ago for the first set of rules. Should sit down and figure out how a coon hound should operate. Then rules (simple rules) should be put in place to award or minus a dog for his performance to a coon hound standard. If there is such a thing anymore.

Seriously we have gotten into the mindset of your dog totally alone all night long. That doesn't make for a pleasurable hunt most of the time, except for the winner. Especially in an area of thin coon when miles can separate dogs being treed.
I don't mind it pleasure hunting. I can go a mile that way in my buggy and get close. Walk a hundred yards and get my dog. Then drive two miles the other direction and get close and walk a hundred yards and get my other dog. In a comp hunt all those miles eliminate a lot of hunters and spots that can be hunted.

Guess we just have to watch and hope it comes out for the best. UKC took some bold steps and I wish them nothing but the best. This sport is surly not for the grand pa's any more.

Funny we talk about teaching the young. The young are going a completely opposite direction. Guess we either didn't teach them very well or they didn't listen.




Bruce you have pretty much hunted under these rules yíall have held **** at your club whatís your opinion on them based on your hunting experience with them.


Tar

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John B.Dalton
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Im anxious to see if someone truly has those hounds I have been hearing about that can tree those coons walking to old deep and lonely..If you can get one treed out the gate and get cut loose again those fellows will get tired of losing but honestly havent seen too many around here..Time will tell and hopefully the hunts will grow a bit!! Local level hunts is where the need is the most and this should get them there for at least five casts ..Not a real good answer to as why but last year when they didnt announce this big money hunt at Oaks the air went out the sail a bit..This year a completely didnt response.

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Richard Lambert
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How many coonhunters are there, maybe 1,000? Only 7 of them have changed coonhunting and coonhounds forever. Is that a good system? After this fiasco, maybe we should rethink it, talk about taxation without representation......

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Night Shift
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UKC was going to die out if they didnít do something. Iím as big a UKC fan as anyone but Iíve hunted way more in the other KCís because there was nothing to gain by hunting a GrNt dog in UKC. The hunters needed a reason to bring them and they needed rules that would open the door for other hunters.

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Corey Gruver
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Richard

What came first? The chicken? Or the egg?

Are the "new rules" really going to change coonhunting forever, or have the dogs and hunters already adapted to what the "culture" of the sport has demanded?

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Richard Lambert
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Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Funny we talk about teaching the young. The young are going a completely opposite direction. Guess we either didn't teach them very well or they didn't listen.


Do y'all let the youngsters in your family make up the Rules? Have you ever told your youngsters, " because I said so, that's why"? Should we ever let the younger less experienced generation make the Rules?

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yadkintar
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Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Do y'all let the youngsters in your family make up the Rules? Have you ever told your youngsters, " because I said so, that's why"? Should we ever let the younger less experienced generation make the Rules?




If you are a multimillion dollar corporation and the majority of your customer base is young people because the old retirees are either quitting or passing away you will listen. the money you send them a year wouldnít even buy lunch for the staff for one day.


Tar

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Richard Lambert
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Re: Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
......the majority of your customer base is young people.... Tar

Tarbaby you need to get out more often.

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yadkintar
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Re: Re: Re: Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Tarbaby you need to get out more often.



Richard not meaning this wrong anybody should go where they like. But if you only go to exclusive breed hunts or major hunts it paints a different picture. These young guys around here hunt in $$$ hunts as high as 4 nights a week. Ukc wants to utilize some of that costumer base.



Tar

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joey
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Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Tar the $200,000 sure sound nice. Especially when the past amouts haven't been close to that. Yes, UKC is to be congratulated on some bold steps.

But then reality comes in. I have had the good fortune to have several dogs that made the final four competing for Trucks and thousands of dollars cash. Several dogs in the top 20 of National Championships and World Championships. Proud to be there. But the third and fourth place finishes in those final cast or top 20 of a World Championship hunt comes out to maybe $15,000 dollars total winnings when a first place in those hunts would have been well over $150,000. I don't care how much is advertised. If you don't win first you generally are not covering expenses. Like I have heard you say many times. But is is fun trying.

But that is the game we play and UKC has increased the purse for their game. That is a good thing.




Bruce, second place in this hunt pays as much as first in the other KC world hunts, 3rd will pay more than what you actually get and 4th will pay more than the supper stakes.

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Bruce m. Conkey
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.

Tar, I think most of them will work just fine. I am glad the leash lock situation was changed. I actually like chkc rule of back to same tree minus second time scratched. Dogs are smart enough to learn that easily. The only change I jave to ponder more is the three minutes on the tree and then judge awarding points and minus. That may be to severe plus my concern is judge awarding points correctly. They get that wrong a lot of times now when they start awarding points. UKC did what a lot wanted. I just wonder why the big shift all of a sudden. It will work out. Thing I would like to see is a provision that allows changes if they got something wrong. Without waiting a long period of time.

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yadkintar
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Re: .

quote:
Originally posted by Bruce m. Conkey
Tar, I think most of them will work just fine. I am glad the leash lock situation was changed. I actually like chkc rule of back to same tree minus second time scratched. Dogs are smart enough to learn that easily. The only change I jave to ponder more is the three minutes on the tree and then judge awarding points and minus. That may be to severe plus my concern is judge awarding points correctly. They get that wrong a lot of times now when they start awarding points. UKC did what a lot wanted. I just wonder why the big shift all of a sudden. It will work out. Thing I would like to see is a provision that allows changes if they got something wrong. Without waiting a long period of time.



I think they will tweek the times and points on that one it donít look quite right to me the one in **** works really good and is fair ( Richard would like it better lol ) we will see.


Tar

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Pat Bizich
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
How many coonhunters are there, maybe 1,000? Only 7 of them have changed coonhunting and coonhounds forever. Is that a good system? After this fiasco, maybe we should rethink it, talk about taxation without representation......


My thoughts exactly.
I belong to two breed associations and neither one got my opinion or vote on anything.
So these guys just went to this meeting and voted their way???

My other question if these changes are so great and following in the proverbial footsteps of the other $KC's .
Why do the other $KC's only draw the same 3-5 guys at every hunt?

Why is UKC hiding/not publishing the entries numbers at the hunts?
I submit that we will not be able to use our own judgement instead of propaganda as to whether these new rules help or hurt entries.
There will be guys that no matter what the rules are will go to every hunt.
It will get to just like the other $KC's it will be the same 3-5 guys showing up at every hunt.

Many hard core comp hunters breed their dogs to fit the rules. Unfortunately in order to make dogs titled and win consistently they will have to likely be hot nosed, get deep ,lonely ,and not cover.
This is not my idea of a coon hound to own and pleasure hunt and still win in the nite hunts. So in the future whether a dog is titled or wins every cast will no longer have a significance for me .

Mr Dave Dean made the statement one time.
I try to breed my dogs to fit the rules. Every time I finally get them bred to win in the hunts they go and change the rules and I got to start all over.

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Night Shift
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
How many coonhunters are there, maybe 1,000? Only 7 of them have changed coonhunting and coonhounds forever. Is that a good system? After this fiasco, maybe we should rethink it, talk about taxation without representation......

If you think there is only a thousand hunters that tells me you donít travel the hunts. Lol

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Pat Bizich
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And almost forgot we got a double whammy next year.
Let's see are the nite hunt entries suffering because of the new rules or because of the fee increases to enter?

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Sgraves
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I think we really are getting ahead of ourselves. We are judging these rules before they are even tried . Itís burns my hide for a dog to back at the last moment. My whole point is I have not a problem whatsoever if my dog backs. As long as me an the other handler are in the process of seeing who calls tree first. Thatís competing. Not asking the judge how much time is left on tree hoping my dog will make it. Maybe I see things a whole lot different. Why have a no leash lock if you can cut your dog from a tree after the tree is dead an it heads straight to another dog. An not suffer any penalty for it . Thatís exactly the way some of you are thinking.

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robgregory
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Changes

Exactly the reason I got away from comp hunting. You finally get used to one set of rules, and next thing you know, more changes. Reminds me of this company I work for. Maybe I'm just getting too old and ornery. Either way, I'll just stick to pleasure hunting. Rob

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rcagla10583
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I donít see why this is such a big issues rules change and these finally changed for the better

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groworg1
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how has all the rule changes helped nascar ? stands empty or full ? change isn't always good !

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Redneck Mafia
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quote:
Originally posted by Pat Bizich
My thoughts exactly.
I belong to two breed associations and neither one got my opinion or vote on anything.
So these guys just went to this meeting and voted their way???



How many contacted their breed about changes previous to this vote? The proposals were not a big state secret.
Now if you are a Walker member you may have a complaint that some things that they submitted for change were voted against by their reps. Kinda reminds me of the Blueticks a few years ago.

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