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indiana1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: indiana
Posts: 355

This stuff is funny to me. You are kidding yourself thinking this is going to change everything for the better. Everyone has seen the dog that covers if itís remotely in the area. That guy that owns it will still pitch his in when he figures out your sure enough coontreeing machine. A good cover dog will not need three minutes. Heck if there is one in the area And a man knew the dog was more than likely was going to back yours but was 50/50 on it Whats to keep him waiting till the two is gone and pitch him in for 25 ,if he is not there He has lost almost nothing . These are usually the first strike type of dogs to boot that later may tree his own. Fact is if you are hunting a nice dog you probably going to win most your casts. If you get beat by the type that covers and gets some of yours and trees his own thatís the way it goes sure we have all been there . So Iím sure youíll be happy they changed the rule to better suit your independent dog. But like I mentioned above a good handler will find a way to give himself a chance. The ones I feel sorry for is the guys that enter knowing they probably wonít win but want to hunt some new places meet some other hunters that will probably minus out fairly quick and eventually stop coming. The only rule change I do not like is the next available after tree is closed. Makes no sense to me what so ever.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 12:22 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17444

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
...... You donít see a man that races horses bring a plow horse to a race do you.Its just that simple. Rules we have before us are simple . If you work hard good things will come your way.....


Oh my goodness, men started out racing their plow horses. But then some rich guys started breeding and training a couple of horses just for racing while keeping their others for plowing. The rich guys starting setting rules for their races. First there were quarter mile races but then the rich guys set the distance longer to put those cow horse at a disadvantage. And they also had claiming races to keep the ringers out. If you want to start a real fight, get a bunch of walking, gaited, racking, quarter horse guys together and ask them who has the "best" horse.

Now don't get me started on automobiles. Henry Ford once said that the first.car race was 5 minutes after the 2nd Ford rolled off of the assembly line. Look at what that has led to. How many race car drivers drive their race car back and forth to work. NASCAR started out with "stock cars". They still call them that but they are nowhere near "stock". This is thanks to multiple rule changes through the years. They have completely eliminated the common man. Is this where the sport of coonhunting is headed?
Maybe we need a dirt track circuit or some claiming races.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 12:36 AM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1190

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, men started out racing their plow horses. But then some rich guys started breeding and training a couple of horses just for racing while keeping their others for plowing. The rich guys starting setting rules for their races. First there were quarter mile races but then the rich guys set the distance longer to put those cow horse at a disadvantage. And they also had claiming races to keep the ringers out. If you want to start a real fight, get a bunch of walking, gaited, racking, quarter horse guys together and ask them who has the "best" horse.

Now don't get me started on automobiles. Henry Ford once said that the first.car race was 5 minutes after the 2nd Ford rolled off of the assembly line. Look at what that has led to. How many race car drivers drive their race car back and forth to work. NASCAR started out with "stock cars". They still call them that but they are nowhere near "stock". This is thanks to multiple rule changes through the years. They have completely eliminated the common man. Is this where the sport of coonhunting is headed?
Maybe we need a dirt track circuit or some claiming races.




Them races are around here if you look hard enough. I know you won't struggle on getting guys to hunt against you in this hunt. Bring your best and your .17 or .22 or shotgun if you want. The rules are simple, hunt from dusk until dawn. Whoever trees more coons goes home with their dog, the other doesn't. Pretty simple rules.

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PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
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Old Post 09-10-2019 12:47 AM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 241

No Richard, no one has eliminated the common man. Men living in the past or to hard headed to change their ways maybe. If you choose not to drive a station wagon , why drive it. That simple.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 12:58 AM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 241

Richard am gonna give you a hard time because I know you are really a good guy. This song reminds me of you. Forgive me I canít help myself. Here goes. Heís an ole hippie that donít know what to do, should he hang on to the old or grab on to the new. Am sure you know the rest. Couldnít help myself. Havenít met you but you just seem like a good guy. Have to be when you start out everything with oh my goodness.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 01:22 AM
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Chuck Allen
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1058

Well it seems like these changes maybe a good thing , lets wait and see what is finalized and how it is implemented into action. That will tell the tale for sure. UKC should just stick to the plan no matter what since the coon hunters chose the cup they wanted to drink out of and lets see how well it does for a year or 2. No human plan of action is ever perfect , and we are talking about dogs not gods.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 01:32 AM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1190

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, men started out racing their plow horses. But then some rich guys started breeding and training a couple of horses just for racing while keeping their others for plowing. The rich guys starting setting rules for their races. First there were quarter mile races but then the rich guys set the distance longer to put those cow horse at a disadvantage. And they also had claiming races to keep the ringers out. If you want to start a real fight, get a bunch of walking, gaited, racking, quarter horse guys together and ask them who has the "best" horse.

Now don't get me started on automobiles. Henry Ford once said that the first.car race was 5 minutes after the 2nd Ford rolled off of the assembly line. Look at what that has led to. How many race car drivers drive their race car back and forth to work. NASCAR started out with "stock cars". They still call them that but they are nowhere near "stock". This is thanks to multiple rule changes through the years. They have completely eliminated the common man. Is this where the sport of coonhunting is headed?
Maybe we need a dirt track circuit or some claiming races.



OH MY GOODNESS........You might want to do some research on horse racing. Because it sure didn't start out with plow horses. And the longer distance running horses were first, like thoroughbreds. Quarter horses are part thoroughbred and mustang. Figured I'd let you know your analogy was a bit off.

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PKC CH Wax's Late Night Boom
And
Partners on a few common trashy young dogs

Gone but not forgotten

GrNtCh, PKC Ch Hillbilly Bildo
Pr Broken Oaks Wild Blue Gypsy

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Old Post 09-10-2019 01:41 AM
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honalieh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1804

1st and 1st

Hunted in the 70's (in my teens then). I remember well drawing the Hammer bred dogs that would babble. If I drew one of them, they got 1st strike. If I drew 2 of them, they got 1st and 2nd strike.

In 1981 (I believe I have the year correct), they jumped 1st tree to 125. I loved that. Having always hunted dogs that leaned toward the tighter side, this was great. A good tighter mouthed dog should typically tree ahead of the open dog. Simple fact. I'm speaking from personal experience, not about hypothetical situations.

If you turn a cast of dogs loose, ONLY ONE OF THEM CAN STRIKE FIRST. Why not award it with more points than those that didn't strike first? To me, that's a dog that should rewarded with more points than the others. Not one that should be neutralized through rules to eliminate the advantage of an honest 1st strike dog.

If you turn a cast of dogs loose, ONLY ONE OF THEM CAN TREE FIRST. Why not award it with more points than those that didn't tree first? To me, that's a dog that should be rewarded with more points than the others (assuming they have the meat). Not one that should be neutralized through rules (including split tree rules) to eliminate the advantage of an honest 1st tree dog. Where else can you have 2, 3, or 4 contestants and they all get 1st place??? I know, it's great if you are 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. But, regardless of what anyone says, it's not fair to the one that's actually 1st!!!

To me, BETTER, QUICKER, FASTER (Accuracy Demanded) is something we should be STRIVING FOR, not something we should be fighting against (by making rules to neutralize or penalize them).

BETTER, QUICKER, FASTER should not be the enemy, IT SHOULD BE THE GOAL!!!

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:00 AM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3295

Mr. Lambert

You are wearing yourself out with all this rule change scenarios. Let's just wait and see how things play out, shucks, you just might like them. Like them or not, they are coming and when they do we will have a choice play or stay home. Most of us have played for many years under rules that we did not like, there will never be a set of rules that everyone likes. The way I see it is if you play by the same rules as I do, why should one of us complain? Dave

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:08 AM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 241

Re: 1st and 1st

quote:
Originally posted by honalieh
Hunted in the 70's (in my teens then). I remember well drawing the Hammer bred dogs that would babble. If I drew one of them, they got 1st strike. If I drew 2 of them, they got 1st and 2nd strike.

In 1981 (I believe I have the year correct), they jumped 1st tree to 125. I loved that. Having always hunted dogs that leaned toward the tighter side, this was great. A good tighter mouthed dog should typically tree ahead of the open dog. Simple fact. I'm speaking from personal experience, not about hypothetical situations.

If you turn a cast of dogs loose, ONLY ONE OF THEM CAN STRIKE FIRST. Why not award it with more points than those that didn't strike first? To me, that's a dog that should rewarded with more points than the others. Not one that should be neutralized through rules to eliminate the advantage of an honest 1st strike dog. Fella , not trying to be a smart a$$ , but you to smart for your own good. You making a mountain out of a mole hill.

If you turn a cast of dogs loose, ONLY ONE OF THEM CAN TREE FIRST. Why not award it with more points than those that didn't tree first? To me, that's a dog that should be rewarded with more points than the others (assuming they have the meat). Not one that should be neutralized through rules (including split tree rules) to eliminate the advantage of an honest 1st tree dog. Where else can you have 2, 3, or 4 contestants and they all get 1st place??? I know, it's great if you are 2nd, 3rd, or 4th. But, regardless of what anyone says, it's not fair to the one that's actually 1st!!!

To me, BETTER, QUICKER, FASTER (Accuracy Demanded) is something we should be STRIVING FOR, not something we should be fighting against (by making rules to neutralize or penalize them).

BETTER, QUICKER, FASTER should not be the enemy, IT SHOULD BE THE GOAL!!!

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:12 AM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 241

Honalieh , not trying to be a smart a$$, but you are to smart for your own good. You making a mountain out of a mole hill.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:21 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17444

quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
OH MY GOODNESS....... Figured I'd let you know your analogy was a bit off.


Thanks....

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:27 AM
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100%hunter
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2014
Location:
Posts: 124

richard

i like your idea for a real coon hunt and i live in the same area as you do so when you want to have that coon hunt let me know where and what the entry is and i'll be glad to compete!!!!!!

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:40 AM
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elvis
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Dog House
Posts: 4066

i say if a dog trees an obvious slick,it and every dog on that tree are done for the nite.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:47 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17444

Oh my goodness Marv, that is a rule that would really change hounds. Scratch dogs for slick trees.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 03:32 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9350

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness Marv, that is a rule that would really change hounds. Scratch dogs for slick trees.



Sure would be a lot of trees circled unless your dog was by itself lol.



Tar

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Old Post 09-10-2019 03:39 AM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17444

There already are.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 01:45 PM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 241

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
There already are.
I agree , guy I hunt with hates a circle tree. If heís there he will look. Sometimes they want. Most times if you keep light low soon as it hits the tree they will look. Donít know how many times I have walked away an turned around an coon looks. Circling trees is badly abused by some.

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Old Post 09-10-2019 01:54 PM
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gpent24
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2017
Location: mccomb, ms
Posts: 154

Ukc did a good job on rules changes. I don't think anyone with a somewhat independent dog, that's tight mouthed or opened mouth, that can tree a coon with no help is complaining about the new comp rules at all. That is what we are looking for isn't it? Dogs that when you cut loose are going to get treed under a coon no matter what else is going on?

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Old Post 09-10-2019 02:11 PM
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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2098

quote:
Originally posted by elvis
i say if a dog trees an obvious slick,it and every dog on that tree are done for the nite.
Best post on here in forever.

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