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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17415

Proposal 7

Oh my goodness... If a dog backs after 3 minutes his strike and assigned tree points are going to get minused no matter what. Everyone will have to have a compltely independent dog now. Is that really what the majority of UKC competition coonhunters want?

The only loophole is if the tree is circled. If your dog is there when the cast arrives, you will have to vote to circle the tree or your dog will get his strike plus assigned tree points minused.

And this wording doesnt address the dog that comes into a tree after the cast arrives. They will still get a free pass.

With all of these strike points getting minused everyone will want a silent track dog that is independent to a fault. Is that what the majority of UKC competition coonhunters wants? I guess that is why they voted to allow them.

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pamjohnson
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Registered: Feb 2012
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Posts: 1664

Exactly.
There is going to be a lot of unhappy handlers.
Unhappy handlers doesn't make more entries.
Independence = htx results

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Toad Hill
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Registered: Jun 2014
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Yep ...

Gonna be alot of people doing some new training methods and wooping and slashing dogs for the next several months to match the new rules LOL !!!!
wooooooooweeeeeee

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critter
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stupid!

Stupidest rule yet.Even dumber than the 125 tree points!jmo

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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
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Mr Richard explain to a ole slow boy like me where you coming from. Am not getting out of 7 what you posted.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
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Does anyone have an old silent independent to a fault Gr Nt Ch that they don't hunt anymore and want to sell? I want to win some of that $200,000.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17415

At least they don't have to get deep now since tree is closed at 3 minutes. They just have to be silent. With the no leash lock changes, everyone will want a close hunting, silent mouthed, independent to a fault tree dog. Oh wait, isn't that the cur dog breed standard? And since they are close, they won't need a big hound mouth either. We need to change the breed standards now to reflect the new competition rule changes.

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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 4137

Re: Proposal 7

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness... If a dog backs after 3 minutes his strike and assigned tree points are going to get minused no matter what. Everyone will have to have a compltely independent dog now. Is that really what the majority of UKC competition coonhunters want?

The only loophole is if the tree is circled. If your dog is there when the cast arrives, you will have to vote to circle the tree or your dog will get his strike plus assigned tree points minused.

And this wording doesnt address the dog that comes into a tree after the cast arrives. They will still get a free pass.

With all of these strike points getting minused everyone will want a silent track dog that is independent to a fault. Is that what the majority of UKC competition coonhunters wants? I guess that is why they voted to allow them.



I would guess that the majority of the rules committee decided that if a dog was not at a tree within 3 minutes he A. Wasn't running that track and me'tooed dogs that put in the work or B. Was entirely to slow and did not deserve any plus points on that tree.
Now why they didn't include circle trees or get rid of or at least change that saved by the judge circle points 5(b) your guess is as good as mine who knows. Maybe in the final tweeking that happens because certain rule changes affect others we will find out.

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T Felderman
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Registered: May 2005
Location: Bellevue, IA
Posts: 1717

Hypothetical 4 dog cast

All dogs are treed, dog A trees 1st & 1st. Dog B trees split 30 yards away, Dogs C&D are 150 yards farther in.

by new leash lock rule dog A has to be cut and if he covers dog B's tree, dog A gets assigned 25 points and minused (unless circled)? Dog's A&B recut and if either one covers C&D's tree they are gonna get assigned another 25 points and minused?

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9335

Were the no leash lock benefits you is when you draw ole babble , deep and alone. Yes you tree a coon close and by the old rules you walk 10 minutes and call time between trees. Here is the kicker most older guys that hunted back in the day and hide hunted donít want to walk with their dog on the leash seeing coons setting up for a mile get to the tree score it ole pro handler wants to walk all the way back to the truck and go somwhere else. And replete the same thing again. You took the older guys out of the game. You watch the dogs come on the scene now that tree coons as they come to them. If your dog will be with the other dogs and compete with them heads up and outrun them and out locate them you will have no problems. It was in the podcast the other night the dogs are getting so unruly that they canít get judges and guides for major events because they donít have the hunting grounds to accomadate those bronkey son of a guns. And who wants to chase dogs all night that ainít yours. Yíall get you one like dark or shack you will love these rules.


Just an old farts opinion.


Tar

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Sgraves
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I agree with you Tar. A good accurate hard hunting tree dog that can tree a lay up coon will be deadly. Now I see what the fuss over the silent dog taking over is about. Love to hear a open mouth dog do his thing. But one that can get on a role treeing lay ups is hard to be.These new rules fits him to the tee.

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Night Shift
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Registered: Jan 2012
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If your dog canít be at the tree in 3 minutes it should get minused. Richard you saying you have to vote to circle just shows how dishonest your thinking is.

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Nathan Phenix
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Registered: May 2017
Location: West Plains Mo
Posts: 330

Re: Hypothetical 4 dog cast

quote:
Originally posted by T Felderman
All dogs are treed, dog A trees 1st & 1st. Dog B trees split 30 yards away, Dogs C&D are 150 yards farther in.

by new leash lock rule dog A has to be cut and if he covers dog B's tree, dog A gets assigned 25 points and minused (unless circled)? Dog's A&B recut and if either one covers C&D's tree they are gonna get assigned another 25 points and minused?



This is where I thought problem would be. But if I understand correct you can keep you dog on leash if you want while other trees are scored. I might be wrong.

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Travis O.
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Registered: Aug 2008
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Posts: 898

I love the 3 minute tree rule and only receiving 25 after 2 minutes. If my dog has to cover others after 3 minutes, I'll just stay home.

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tony.beals
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Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Perrinton, Michigan
Posts: 632

Re: Proposal 7

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness... If a dog backs after 3 minutes his strike and assigned tree points are going to get minused no matter what. Everyone will have to have a compltely independent dog now. Is that really what the majority of UKC competition coonhunters want?

The only loophole is if the tree is circled. If your dog is there when the cast arrives, you will have to vote to circle the tree or your dog will get his strike plus assigned tree points minused.

And this wording doesnt address the dog that comes into a tree after the cast arrives. They will still get a free pass.

With all of these strike points getting minused everyone will want a silent track dog that is independent to a fault. Is that what the majority of UKC competition coonhunters wants? I guess that is why they voted to allow them.




Richard all I hear at most hunts (UKC/PKC) is just that they want there dog by itself anyway , with the 3 min tree and the count down and no leash lock (IMO) guys will more likely think twice for having a dog go 3/4 mile get treed and other dogs turned loose behind it getting more points and trees while going to said dog. It should always be about the dog and give the dog the most hunting time available. again JMO

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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
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I actually heard a breed rep put it exactly right. Coonhunting was the only sport where you are penalized (can be kept on a leash unable to compete) for scoring 1st.
How many of you have wondered around the woods walking to various trees while your dog is leashed up? I will never forget several years ago when walk time was still 15 that Mafia was on a leash for 47 consecutive minutes at the UKC World hunt he barely lost that cast but it is hard to tree coons when leash locked.
The object is to score the most points in the allotted time and this is a good change.

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Richard Lambert
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Oh my goodness, didn't Dalton just voluntarily keep Shack on the leash for the last 15 minutes at AO Finals?

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pamjohnson
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, didn't Dalton just voluntarily keep Shack on the leash for the last 15 minutes at AO Finals?
??? I have not figured that 1 out either. Was it allowed?? How so??

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Richard Lambert
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So if Dog A backs Dog B after 2 minutes but before the tree is dead, Dog A gets 25 tree points and they are minused if tree is slick and plussed if coon is seen. But if Dog A backs Dog B after 3 minutes they get 75 tree points which are minused no matter what? Not only does a dog that backs after 3 minutes not get any plus tree points, they are going to get assigned tree points and minused. It looks like hunts won't be about which dog trees the most coons but which handler can get the other dogs minused the most.

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Richard Lambert
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If a tree is "dead" after 3 minutes, you can't tree a dog on it. The new rule says that dogs at a tree when the cast arrives will be assigned next available position and minused. Now after 3 minutes the next available position is zero since the tree is dead and you can't tree in on it. What are they going to do?

Now having a tree countdown, I can understand. And saying that a tree is dead after 3 minutes, I can understand also. But this assigning tree points and minusing them makes no sense to me whatsoever.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If a tree is "dead" after 3 minutes, you can't tree a dog on it. The new rule says that dogs at a tree when the cast arrives will be assigned next available position and minused. Now after 3 minutes the next available position is zero since the tree is dead and you can't tree in on it. What are they going to do?

Now having a tree countdown, I can understand. And saying that a tree is dead after 3 minutes, I can understand also. But this assigning tree points and minusing them makes no sense to me whatsoever.




Your working yourself into a tizz for nothing. Go get you a walker dog and all these problems will be solved.

Tarbaby

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novicane65
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Your working yourself into a tizz for nothing. Go get you a walker dog and all these problems will be solved.

Tarbaby




At least I didn't say it first. But I think I understand what King Richard's complaints are. His dogs aren't geared for being independent and are slow track dogs.

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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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With the Rules up to now, a dog needed to tree it's own but get some of yours also. That is the kind of dog that I like. I don't like a me too dog but I also don't like a completely independent dog that absolutely refuses to tree with another dog. With the new rules, the completely independent dog will be the winner. Some people like that kind of dog so they will be happy with the changes.
With the tree countdown both types of dogs could win. But with this assigning tree points and minusing dogs, the silent completely independent dogs will have a definite advantage. If you don't have an independent to a fault dog, you might as well stay home. No longer will these dogs be "independant to a fault". Pack dogs are now a thing of the past. Old men will sit around and talk about them like they talk about 3 hr hunts.

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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9335

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
With the Rules up to now, a dog needed to tree it's own but get some of yours also. That is the kind of dog that I like. I don't like a me too dog but I also don't like a completely independent dog that absolutely refuses to tree with another dog. With the new rules, the completely independent dog will be the winner. Some people like that kind of dog so they will be happy with the changes.
With the tree countdown both types of dogs could win. But with this assigning tree points and minusing dogs, the silent completely independent dogs will have a definite advantage. If you don't have an independent to a fault dog, you might as well stay home. No longer will these dogs be "independant to a fault". Pack dogs are now a thing of the past. Old men will sit around and talk about them like they talk about 3 hr hunts.




Your wrong you ainít hunted under it and you donít understand it buuuuuut it will take a dog that is better trained than most hunt.


Tar

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Sgraves
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Mr Richard I donít understand why you so hung up on the silent dog thing. I agree with Dave , a silent dog has to do double to beat a dog that can get his mouth open an tree the same amount of coon. Strick points will tell the tale. You get a dog that can get around quick , tree every coon it comes to an stay out of trouble, donít matter if their silent or open you will do good.

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