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davery
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 398

Babbling dogs

UKC must have some good judges with good noses on them to minus a dog for opening on a coon track this arenít to help these fiest -cur type dogs I thought a hound must open on track so you can tell which dog is ahead but Iím from the old school

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Old Post 08-31-2019 07:11 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1188

I 'm with you. This subject has been beaten to death. A lot of breeders are breeding for hotter nosed get deep and alone.
They are the cry babies that your dog is babbling because their dog is not opening. Minus your dog is the only way they can beat you.
My self I like dogs that have a good nose.
I have hunted a few that gets the what is your dog running bit or your dog is babbling BOO HOO HOO crap because no one else dog can smell or will open with mine.
And it ticks me off. I what these dogs I hunt to open quick and they better have a good nose or I won't keep them. Then you take them to a hunt and know nothing judges want to minus your dog.
I have already said we need to get rid of the babbling rule.
THERE IS NO WAY THAT ANY JUDGE CAN WITH 100% CERTAINTY KNOW MY DOG IS NOT ON A TRACK!!!!!
They do not know my dog . They do not know if my dog has a nose like a bloodhound or a hot nosed fiest.
Like you say when those judges can learn to smell as good as my dog nose then I will accept the minus.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
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NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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Old Post 08-31-2019 08:08 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1188

While I am on my rant about dogs opening.
ALL BREEDS STANDARDS call for open trailing as a trait.
Yet there have been proposals submitted that are being voted on this very weekend that will do away with the silent dog rule and a proposal that if passed will penalize dogs that open "TOO WELL"!!

WE ARE HUNTING HOUNDS "NOT CURS" IF YOU LIKE SILENT DOGS.... GO HUNT CURS.
Instead people are wanting to change the rules for the type dog they "WANT" so they have a better chance to win . Instead of breeding dogs to win within the current rules.

Like I said you want a hot nosed silent pop up dog . Don't be trying to penalize my dog for having a better nose and opening more than "YOU LIKE" .
Do away with "BOTH" rules and let's have at it. And may the best dog win.
Oh, that's right. These same proposals are wanting a tree count down like the other KC'S to even further give favor to the get alone tree dog without moving the tree points back to 100 like the other KC's.
You guys want a tree count down then want to penalize the dog that gets first strike all night by calling them babblers.
Maybe we should have a strike count down too to penalize these tight mouth dogs???

The nite hunt rules were written to help hunters prove who had the best dog in the county then, now the country ,as well as traits that were desirable worked into those rules. For instance the slick tree dog taking minus, the silent dog being scratched for continuously being silent, or the trash runner taking minus.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

Last edited by Pat Bizich on 08-31-2019 at 08:50 PM

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Old Post 08-31-2019 08:36 PM
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indiana1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: indiana
Posts: 355

I believe the complaints are of the dogs that strike as soon as there unsnapped and never shut up. Usually the same dog you hear barking in the box non stop

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Tom Lynch
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Old Post 08-31-2019 08:42 PM
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Pat Bizich
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: northeast
Posts: 1188

quote:
Originally posted by indiana1
I believe the complaints are of the dogs that strike as soon as there unsnapped and never shut up. Usually the same dog you hear barking in the box non stop


You are exactly right. Those are the obvious ones.
I can't stand babblers and won't put up with one. Aggravating idiots that owners should had put a stop to before ever putting in a hunt..

I know of several instances of dogs opening off the lead, being accused of babbling because others were not opening and going on to tree a real live coon.
Another guy on this board said he would minus ANY DOG he saw opening with its head up going across a field. HUH??
Hello? has anyone ever heard of a dog that can WIND???

I had one time one of the best fastest track dogs I ever saw that could wind a coon across a 250 yard field. She ran with her nose in the air. This guy insisted he would minus her type for babbling.
These are my arguments for questionable judgement calls and dogs NOT being penalized by inexperienced judges.

__________________
IT SEEMS THAT EVERYTIME A BREED OR LINE OF DOGS GET POPULAR IT EVENTUALLY LEADS TO ITS RUINATION BY UNINFORMED PEOPLE BREEDING WITHOUT DOING THEIR RESEARCH FIRST.

Gone but never forgotten:
NtChGrCh Dryfork Punkin
NtChGrCh Dryfork Little Blue Baby Doll
2009 Pa Show Dog Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Little Black Book

Home of:

2009,2013,2018 Pa. State
Show Handler Of The Year
GrCh Dryfork Black Dog Raine
Gr.Ch. Black Dog Black Cherry
Gr.Ch. Make My Day Sunny
2018 Pa. Show Dog Of Year
Gr.Ch. Batman's Poison Ivy
2011&2013 WTDA Pa State Champion
2011&2013 Overall Hunt For The Cure
Ch. Jay's Greenridge Heidi
In memory of my best friend "Jay"

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Old Post 08-31-2019 09:03 PM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 233

Pat this subject has been an will be beat to death. Itís not about punishing a true cold nosed track dog that gets his mouth opened quick. Not even about a cur dog or a tight mouth pop a coon up kinda dog. Itís about theses lying, cheating boys who call themselves men. Trying to convince everyone that their hunting an honest dog. There is only so many people you can fool. Man up , stop bringing that babbling junk to these hunts an this subject will go away.

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Old Post 08-31-2019 09:13 PM
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bowling
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 1953

As long as money is involved there will always be crooks I quit several years ago trying to run hunts just to get beat by a slick handler or the cast teaming up on the best dog in cast to get him out of the way.

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Old Post 08-31-2019 09:38 PM
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davery
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 398

Babbling dogs

These tight mouth dogs need scratching like the rules say and this will help the good opening dogs

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Old Post 08-31-2019 09:58 PM
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indiana1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: indiana
Posts: 355

If you are getting beat by a tight mouth dog that is taking 3rd or 4th strike consistently you might want to check what is on your lead. Just my opinion.

__________________
Tom Lynch
317-514-1514
Nite CH PR Lynchís BLU CREEP
(Utchmans blue Amos x Utchmans blue magic)

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Old Post 09-01-2019 12:25 AM
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davery
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 398

If yíall had a judge up there in that northern country you would trade dogs

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Old Post 09-01-2019 02:27 AM
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davery
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 398

If yíall had a judge up there in that northern country you would trade dogs

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Old Post 09-01-2019 02:27 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9339

Those that have babbling dogs make excuses for them. 100 strike and 75 tree all night backpacking you donít have to train for that. And they hate a dog that slips away from them tight mouthed and gets a coon theirs donít get no part of. Anybody that ainít a big dummy knows when a dog is babbling and knows when itís handler is using it for their advantage.


Tar

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Old Post 09-01-2019 02:49 AM
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indiana1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2010
Location: indiana
Posts: 355

Agree with you tar

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Tom Lynch
317-514-1514
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(Utchmans blue Amos x Utchmans blue magic)

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Old Post 09-01-2019 02:55 AM
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joeok1986
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2010
Location: ok
Posts: 93

Come on guys you know when a dog is babbling, when that dog is barking itís butt off as soon as you cut them, or when itís babbling after the other dogs, you know there is no question that dog ainít struck so be honest about it take your minus and go on

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Old Post 09-01-2019 07:27 AM
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davery
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2005
Location:
Posts: 398

The tight mouth dogs most of the time are getting strikes points on a tree bark and yíall are telling me this is alright these dogs need to be scratched and handlers to for lying

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Old Post 09-01-2019 02:10 PM
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Outback1
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2005
Location: North Carolina
Posts: 1319

quote:
Originally posted by joeok1986
Come on guys you know when a dog is babbling, when that dog is barking itís butt off as soon as you cut them, or when itís babbling after the other dogs, you know there is no question that dog ainít struck so be honest about it take your minus and go on

This,

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Old Post 09-02-2019 01:30 AM
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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4756

Babbling dogs need to take their minus. It is a huge problem and the minute makes it almost impossible to fix.

Hope the minute goes away and we can give these babblers the minus and scratches they deserve.

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Let's go huntin

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Old Post 09-02-2019 02:00 AM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9339

quote:
Originally posted by davery
The tight mouth dogs most of the time are getting strikes points on a tree bark and yíall are telling me this is alright these dogs need to be scratched and handlers to for lying




Is not a guy striking his dog off the snap every cut not lying ? Like I said if you canít beat a last strike dog you need a better mee too dog.


Tar

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Old Post 09-02-2019 02:00 AM
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Cory Highfill
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Clarksville, AR
Posts: 934

The way I see it, a babbler is getting undeserved points every drop, and that impacts everyone on the cast.

The tight mouthed dog doesn't hurt anyone but his owner. And if he can live with that, why should it bother anyone else? Unless, of course, it's like Tar said and ol barky barky has trouble me-tooing him...

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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 2098

Have any of you ever tried to convince the owner of a babbler that he didn't have a cold nosed dog?

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Old Post 09-02-2019 03:05 AM
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Sgraves
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location:
Posts: 233

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
Have any of you ever tried to convince the owner of a babbler that he didn't have a cold nosed dog?
They have to know what a cold nose dog is first . Barks in the box all the way to the woods. Same bark with it comes out of the box . Same bark when itís unleashed. Same bark a mile later with a coon sitting over itís head. Canít minus me heís got the coon sitting right there. Not falling for it . Nothing but a loose mouth, rattle head cull. The owner thinks it ran a track all the way to the tree.

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Old Post 09-02-2019 03:31 AM
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honalieh
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: PA
Posts: 1801

Babbling

A 1st tree dog will almost always beat a babbling dog.

If the babbling dog is a 1st tree dog, you can't beat it. But, if it's consistently treeing before anything else, why can't we believe that it is also striking before anything else?

You can take 3rd strike, 1st tree = 175 points. If the babbler is a 1st strike, 2nd tree = 175 points, you still win with most + tree points.

Allowing 2nd, 3rd, and 4th tree dogs to get just as many points as 1st tree dogs (via split) could give an advantage to a split-treeing babbler.

Solution = Don't give 2nd. 3rd, and 4th tree dogs just as many points as 1st tree dogs (a split tree is at best a 2nd tree, and sometimes it can be a 3rd or 4th tree).

If the babbler gets 1st strike, 2nd tree, that's 175. Loses to 3rd strike,1st tree. The problem is allowing that 2nd, 3rd, or 4th tree ( when split) get just as many tree points as a 1st tree dog!!!

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Old Post 09-02-2019 06:02 AM
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bowling
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2008
Location: London, KY
Posts: 1953

A man that donít know the difference in a babbler is just like his dog a babbler and he ainít going to shut up you canít convince him otherwise and there are some out there that think they are actually running a coon. Only solution is to split the strike or give every dog 25 strike and let the man with the best coon dog win. Or better yet make every dog hunt by himself just one time with a non hunting judge before even being eligible to compete period that would get rid of most of them because 80 percent want hunt alone.

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Old Post 09-02-2019 12:41 PM
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sleepy head
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2015
Location: IN
Posts: 1951

The truly sad thing is that these younger hunters have no idea what a dog with a superior nose and a brain to go with it can do, and a lot of the older guys have forgotten.

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Old Post 09-02-2019 04:51 PM
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Ricochet17
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 6851

quote:
Originally posted by sleepy head
The truly sad thing is that these younger hunters have no idea what a dog with a superior nose and a brain to go with it can do, and a lot of the older guys have forgotten.


Amen to that.

__________________
Well it kinda sounds like my dog judge..........

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