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Ray Conrad
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Registered: May 2008
Location: Rock Hill,SC
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kycooner1, The way I understand the X-bred program. A hound would have to be over 80% of the parent breed and then be accepted back into the parent breed by the membership of the breed association before being registered in the parent breed. That being said, A dog will have to be over 80 % and had been registered by the parent breed(B&T) to be eligible for any of the awards or places you mentioned. Just because he is 80% does not get him registered with the parent breed. The books have to be opened by the membership first.

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John Duncan
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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Ga
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87% not 80.everyone keeps saying 80.dont know what the fuss is about a trophy.has a walker ever won high scoring black and tan at a secitional.lol.

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blackdawg
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Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by John Duncan
87% not 80.everyone keeps saying 80.dont know what the fuss is about a trophy.has a walker ever won high scoring black and tan at a secitional.lol.


I don't care about a trophy, never have. I just don't like seeing a crossbred called a B&T. Whether it be 50% or 87%. Still a crossbred to me.

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Old Post 09-18-2014 12:25 PM
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skidiver
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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: al
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Same goes for winning the 10000 whif...the dog should be "pr" bred.

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John Duncan
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Registered: Mar 2013
Location: Ga
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Has to be a pr dog to win it.x breed is x breed.unless its decendants are let back in down the road it can't win.

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John D
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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

quote:
Originally posted by david white
John, you got anything in mind to breed to the Roscoe dog you ever drew at the zones? I know a couple of people that drew him before said he was a coon treer.


He will tree coons but so will a lot of B&T's.

What sets him apart from most B&T's is:
-has had the best training and hunting a dog can have.
-in comp., has a handler who does not make handling mistakes
-in comp., has a handler who will do anything to pull out a win.

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kycooner1
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I was thinking on the cross breds if any of the pups confirm to breed standards they can be reg B&T the rest of the litter will be reg as X breds...maybe i misunderstood it.

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John Duncan
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No.doesnt matter if a whole litter of x breed dogs meet standard they are register as x breed.now if you have a litter of pr black and tan pups and you have a chocolate pup,to much white,all black,one that doesn't meet standard it has to be culled or registered as x breed.

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C.Nix
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Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Alabama
Posts: 72

Crossrbred

quote:
Originally posted by blackdawg
I don't care about a trophy, never have. I just don't like seeing a crossbred called a B&T. Whether it be 50% or 87%. Still a crossbred to me.

I agree what get's me is that some dyed in the wool Black&Tan men 2 months would not have anything to do with X-bred now they are going to breed them some. To each is own. P.R all tha way for me I like what I have and the breeding if I need to go outside I know where to go.

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Kenneth Tavares
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quote:
Originally posted by blackdawg
I don't care about a trophy, never have. I just don't like seeing a crossbred called a B&T. Whether it be 50% or 87%. Still a crossbred to me.


Just curious, what do you call your hound? What % b&t is your hound? Use ole 7 for an example. You can pm me if you prefer. I want to understand some thoughts of y'all big timers.

I chose you because several others talk one way and do the other. I don't think you are stooping that low yet.

Thanks

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

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Clays_coondogs
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Registered: Apr 2013
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KT

Man I was waiting for to chime in is "The Man" KT. Lol give me a call buddy. Would like to talk to you again.

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blackdawg
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Registered: Apr 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Just curious, what do you call your hound? What % b&t is your hound? Use ole 7 for an example. You can pm me if you prefer. I want to understand some thoughts of y'all big timers.

I chose you because several others talk one way and do the other. I don't think you are stooping that low yet.

Thanks



No big timer here, never claimed to be.

To answer your question, I have no idea, nor do I care. What's done is done. We can't control what the breeders of yesteryear did. I know he's not 100% B&T. No dog in our breed is. But I feel like it's our job to keep the breed as pure as we can.

What are your views on this? You've been awfully quiet lately.

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L.Richard
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Registered: Jul 2013
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Mr. KT

Kenneth....allow me to ask this,regardless of the percentage,regardless of what others might think,or say,what is more important to you.....color or ability?Please refer back on this thread and respond to my earlier questions as well. If you dare?

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jerry chapman
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quote:
Originally posted by blackdawg
What are your views on this? You've been awfully quiet lately.



Well you opened the door on this one....you know as well as i do he's been laying back waiting for an invite to blow his horn!!!

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blackdawg
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quote:
Originally posted by jerry chapman
Well you opened the door on this one....you know as well as i do he's been laying back waiting for an invite to blow his horn!!!


I know, Jerry. If he asks a question, he's already got his response ready. Figured I'd give him the go ahead. Lol. I always get a kick out of KT, even if it's at my own expense.

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Kenneth Tavares
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quote:
Originally posted by blackdawg
No big timer here, never claimed to be.

To answer your question, I have no idea, nor do I care. What's done is done. We can't control what the breeders of yesteryear did. I know he's not 100% B&T. No dog in our breed is. But I feel like it's our job to keep the breed as pure as we can.

What are your views on this? You've been awfully quiet lately.




I've met you a time or two, thought you were an educated dude. Are you sure that someone will have less pure dogs than you in four generations if they make one out cross on say walker?

My views, I have too many to type. First, I could care less if ole Joe(not you Mr. Allen, lol) wants to team up with Ole Todd(yes you Wicks) and do some X breeding. If they get better dogs, I'm happy for them.

I've tried about every bloodline possible in the B&T breed. The ones I haven't tried I've more likely than not hunted with some of them. Maybe not ole Wonderman but dogs from his top and dogs from his bottom. If the generations before him were not like he, then I will say he is a freak. Once they show me he can reproduce that I might try it again. Tried Albert blood and Hobo's Hoss blood more times than I care to... (Not gonna type that on the board today).

They(the purest & stoopers) holler about breed standards. But, they are no better than what they are hollering about. They complained about dogs with white. While registering their own with more white than standards allow, and cutting off dew claws. But, we're worried about a little old timer and a winning black dog with some white. I was happy for the man, his son, and the dog with white. I pointed it out about how their dew claws were no better and they through a fit. They said "people have been cutting them off for years". Then they went and had the breed standards changed to allow dew claws. That helped the breed keep those X bred traits that they have in their yard. Now, here they are worrying about others again.

So, long story short... I don't care how they breed their dogs or what they hunt. If they are better than mine I want to hunt with them and see there power.(Sorry guys, please don't have me banned for asking to see these Dark Rough Wondermen.)

I'll also add, I bet the X breed guys won't be crying about what everyone is breeding there dogs with.

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

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Kenneth Tavares
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quote:
Originally posted by blackdawg
I know, Jerry. If he asks a question, he's already got his response ready. Figured I'd give him the go ahead. Lol. I always get a kick out of KT, even if it's at my own expense.


You are stooping with your pals. I keep hearing when I ask question I've already got a response. We'll you guys must really think I'm smart. I didn't know I had all these wonder powers to know what your response was and how I am going to respond.

For the record, I ask questions to help me understand others way of thinking and my response lets others know what I think. There seems to be several that agree with me but are scared to let others know what they think. They want to please everyone, not me! Not even gonna try. I have my opinion, If you or anyone else will show how your way makes more sense I will even change my thoughts. It's happened before, several times.


Oh, just for Chap... Toot... toot.


TOOT!!!

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

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Kenneth Tavares
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Re: Mr. KT

quote:
Originally posted by L.Richard
Kenneth....allow me to ask this,regardless of the percentage,regardless of what others might think,or say,what is more important to you.....color or ability?Please refer back on this thread and respond to my earlier questions as well. If you dare?


Ability! I have owned B&T's that were darker, some had more tan, some with a little white in their chest, and maybe a few just right. Lol




quote:
Originally posted by L.Richard
A very interesting topic......it has gone on for years undercover,with some success, and I would imagine with some failures as well.A few walker females have been bred to a Black male....pups are young,to early to tell?Why havent more walker guys bred their bitches to Black dogs?And food for thought...what breed will do more outcrossing than the other breeds?And why?


I would say, in order for a thinking man to breed his female(regardless of the breed) to a male he would be trying to get better pups than the female he is breeding. A walker man that trained several well known studs(two examples, Crank It Up and Big Kahuna) bred a walker female to a black male 10 years ago. He said he liked the hustle, nose, and tracking ability of the male.

In my opinion, I think you will see more walkers involved in the X breeding. Because people think they have what they are looking for, and because every time you have a Mojo, Trackman, Rat, or Harry there are just so many followers bragging them up. By the way, I like the Harry dogs better than the other three. Not a fan of the Mojo(and he's Harry bred) dogs, only seen one I could feed for two weeks.

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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

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blackdawg
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Registered: Apr 2004
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KT, I don't doubt any of your views on breeding dogs. You have a track record to back it up. You know as well as I do, these dogs all go back to some cur, lab, and other things we can only guess about.

I, like you have tried many different bloodlines. Even drove to Pinewood, SC, and picked up a pup from you at one point. I've liked, and disliked things about every bloodline I've tried. Many bloodlines I've still not hunted with.

My whole point earlier was that I know our dogs aren't pure bred, but I myself want to keep it where it is. I like what I have, and don't intend to look outside our breed to improve it.

If I ever plan on trying to get something to win a world hunt, I'll go buy a walker.

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Kenneth Tavares
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
I've met you a time or two, thought you were an educated dude. Are you sure that someone will have less pure dogs than you in four generations if they make one out cross on say a walker?

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blackdawg
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quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares



No, I'm not sure. Don't care either. I'll know I'm trying to do it the right way.

What about your dogs?

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toddwicks
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He hunts ENGLISH NOW !!!!!!

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Kenneth Tavares
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quote:
Originally posted by blackdawg
No, I'm not sure. Don't care either. I'll know I'm trying to do it the right way.

What about your dogs?



I don't know. Ain't got time to break it down and don't really care. But, that would be why I'm not one of the ones like you on here complaining about the others wanting to cross breed.

I would guess that it is possible they might have a more pure dog than y'all in four generations.

But, if y'all want to try and make a more pure breed it might be a good idea to stop changing the breed standards to suit your(not you in particular) breeding faults. Faults should be culled. JMO

If people want to help the breed they need to work on improving their own dogs. Not worry how Joe wants to breed his dogs.

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GRNTCH GRCH FIRST CLASS SMOKIN' JETS-"SON"
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Tone it down guys, or they will delete another good topic...

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Kenneth Tavares
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quote:
Originally posted by toddwicks
He hunts ENGLISH NOW !!!!!!


Wicks,
I hunt coondogs. I also own a walker. I quit trying to improve the B&T breed. I worry about me and myself only. Not in stud dogs, quality bred coon treeing females for raising pups, nor any of the such. Just interested in my on personal dogs. No more and no less...

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HOME OF THE FUTURE...POWERED BY:
GRNTCH GRCH FIRST CLASS SMOKIN' JETS-"SON"
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Ph. 803-840-2013
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toddwicks
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2008
Location: tn
Posts: 3735

quote:
Originally posted by Kenneth Tavares
Wicks,
I hunt coondogs. I also own a walker. I quit trying to improve the B&T breed. I worry about me and myself only. Not in stud dogs, quality bred coon treeing females for raising pups, nor any of the such. Just interested in my on personal dogs. No more and no less...




Thats good Kenneth,and i dont have a prob with that,and even if, i did: Really none of my buisiness. Wish u the best ,even if u hunt a airdale x elk hound.


Ur still my pal. Lol

__________________
Twix
Gr Nt CH TREE SLAMMIN HAMMER

2011 RQE NEWPORT,TN 5 TH PLACE
2011 WORLD Qualifier
2011 BnT Days Cast Winner
2012 Cast Winner TN State
2012 3 rd Place Grnt,s BNT days
2012 World Qualifier Meigs Cnty RQE 4 rth place
2012 zones Virginia 4rth place
2012 TOP 100 WORLD HUNT
2013 4th high scoring dog fri night,TN State
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Black Bear
2014 World Qualifier

Nt Ch Hammers Bigtime Drama
2014 World Qualifier

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