Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Monticello Indiana
Posts: 1327

Don't like crossbreeds? Don't hunt or breed them plain and simple....others like them so be it. If we all liked the same thing what would be the purpose of having different breeds to choose from?

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Jeremiah J. Melin
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This X breed to help some of you to tree a coon , when will it get voted on by our association . Who votes on it ? You hear all this bragging for months about B&T power houses and now it disappeared ! Lmao

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Registered: Jun 2008
Location: Sylacauga, Alabama
Posts: 441

Yall do whatever yall want to do! I can only speak for myself! And as for myself, I WILL ONLY OWN A BLACK AND TAN!!! I WILL ONLY FEED A BLACK AND TAN! Mine may have some off-color blood in them somewhere way back that I had nothing to do with, but they are BLACK AND TAN! That's my preference. To each their own!!

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SO let me get this right.......Through the single registration process, which we have had for years and sanctioned by the B@T Association, we have been registering, as black and tans, animals that met our standards but we could not verify the parentage. They could be full of different blood for all we know, but we as a breed association, if they passed our criteria, accepted them as black and tans. Now, UKC through the correct process, is allowing people who have "known" crosses to register as a cross breed and once the infused blood has been bred out and they meet B@T standards they can be registered as B@T. Plus we now can verify parentage in many cases but many of you have a problem with it????? I would much rather know what blood is in the animals, which is what this deal will afford us, over not knowing, which is what the single registration process gave us.

Does anyone else agree?

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Registered: Aug 2012
Location: NC
Posts: 1933

quote:

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Originally posted by CSims
SO let me get this right.......Through the single registration process, which we have had for years and sanctioned by the B@T Association, we have been registering, as black and tans, animals that met our standards but we could not verify the parentage. They could be full of different blood for all we know, but we as a breed association, if they passed our criteria, accepted them as black and tans. Now, UKC through the correct process, is allowing people who have "known" crosses to register as a cross breed and once the infused blood has been bred out and they meet B@T standards they can be registered as B@T. Plus we now can verify parentage in many cases but many of you have a problem with it????? I would much rather know what blood is in the animals, which is what this deal will afford us, over not knowing, which is what the single registration process gave us.

Does anyone else agree?

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Lovis Burns
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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

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Originally posted by Lovis Burns
Before they can be brought back into the gene pool. They still HAVE TO RUN AND TREE A RACCOON.

Remember the breed standards are what a B&T is based off of. But they will still HAVE TO RUN AND TREE A RACCOON.

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

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Registered: Jul 2005
Location:
Posts: 191

quote:

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Originally posted by longshot
Lovis, I agree that the new system is much tighter than the old one on percentages of purity, BUT where do you see anything on it having to run and tree a coon under this new system?

Unless I read it wrong, there is now NO requirement for it to run and tree a coon.

The old system DID have that requirement but not the new one.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

quote:

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Originally posted by CSims
Mark,

The new system does defer to the Breed associations to police themselves and determine the criteria for animals that they accept. Which is where I hope the rules of treeing a raccoon will come in to play.

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Mark Reavis
Southwest Missouri
Dual Grand Champion Super Sambo

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I completely understand Mark but it was stated on the first post that the ABTCHA controls when the breed registry can be opened; therefore, we control it. The onus is on "us" to clarify what we will and won't accept as a B@T.

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Registered: May 2008
Location: Rock Hill,SC
Posts: 731

The presentation at Oaks clearly stated that the hunt test requirement was to be done away with. Single registration is completely gone. As I posted yesterday, I will be in contact with UKC concerning the hunt test and maybe a titled dog requirement. This is a very good discussion and I will personally make sure your concerns are heard.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Michigan
Posts: 9197

Ray, just a heads up.... Todd Kellam is the one to speak to about any concerns or questions you may have. Unfortunately, he is out of the office and is in Montana this week for a bird dog trial. He'll be back next Tuesday and will be delighted to further discuss.

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Registered: Mar 2006
Location: Southwest Missouri
Posts: 2057

Thanks Ray and keep us updated on it.

Maybe I'm in a minority but I feel like a dog should have to earn it's way in and not just be a certain color...

The old system of hunting with an inspector was OK but I think I like the Title requirement better because it would take several cast to title... Maybe the HTX would be another option for people that don't comp hunt?

Personally , I'd make them be a GrNtCh before letting them in, so we know they have something positive to offer. That may seem too strict for some, but if we're gonna let outside stuff in, we should KNOW it it's an improvement. jmo

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Mark Reavis
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Registered: May 2007
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Posts: 1009

I sold a started young gyp to Robert Bridges a couple of years ago with the promise if she makes it and you breed her to your dog (Grn.Nt.Ch. Mizzels Dog) I want a pup. She was bred, I got my pup and a 1yr,18 phone calls & 37 txt later I still have no papers. I gave half to a boy to get her started while I was gone pipelining and now she's a nice prospect, fits all breed standards, I know who the parents are, who bred her and now she will be able to compete. But even though she's nice in every way she will never have a B&T pup.

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Shane

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Capitan, NM
Posts: 81

I don't think there is too much to worry about in dogs coming back in the breed. I know that for me to breed to an 80% dog, he would have to win the world hunt about 3 times back to back. They would have to be a lot better than anything out there.

Most X breed hunters aren't looking to belong to a breed, they just want something to win with.

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Registered: May 2012
Location: Asheville, North Carolina
Posts: 629

I never new so many black & tan people had such sorry dogs that they are drooling over the prospect of getting a cross bred walker or whatever into the dogs they own. I have thought the single registration program should have been closed years ago. It has more than outlived its purpose. Being the oldest UKC coonhound breed we are still trying to put other breeds blood into the black dogs, maybe we should let the black & tan breed die a slow death. According to all of you wanna be black & tan people, we've had bogus papered dogs, cross bred dogs, single registered dogs and after all these years of putting this in the black dogs according to you'll, we still have worthless black dogs. In twenty years if you still can't compete with all this added blood what's going to be your excuse then, are you going to say "this junk ruined the breed". Maybe all that junk that was allowed in has already started ruining the breed.

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Registered: May 2007
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Posts: 1009

Do you believe the 87% B&T dogs of the future will have less to offer than the 90 something % B&Ts of today? Is that why you wouldn't breed to one, 4-8%

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Shane

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Odessa, Mo
Posts: 2066

I'm sticking to my guns on this one. I'm fine with the new XBred category, it will allow other coon hunters to run what they want too. But as far as the ABTCHA is concerned, letting anything but a PROVEN PR.B&T in would be a slap in the face.

I want all hunters and breeds to say how strict our Assocation is about meeting requirements. It should have been that way years ago, but it's not to late to start now.

- Proven Ancestery
- Ability
- Conformation

This is a perfect time for the ABTCHA to step up its game, and help all of us achieve our common goal - Making American Black & Tan Coonhounds the best coon tree'ers in the World.

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Matthew Fann
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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: IOWA
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What would be wrong with doing away with single registered and allowing the cross breed registry, but if you choose to cross breed then they would be cross bred no matter a percentage of one breed. UKC would not loos out on $ by doing this & those that want to hunt a cross breed could still do it. Going to do nothing, but hurt all the breeds that those have worked so hard to get the breed were it is today with this x registry. If this x breeding registration goes thru I would gues in 10 years you would not be able to find a pup without a x hound in its pedigree which is a slap in the face to the honest guys trying to improve the breed & keep it pure.

Last edited by MR.RATMAN on 09-04-2014 at 03:10 AM

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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aCv10_WvGxo

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Registered: Jul 2014
Location: IOWA
Posts: 958

we do need to allow cross breeding into UKC so we dont have people lying to get papers on a dog. This way you do know what you are getting in a hound instead of those who lie to get a set of papers. Every bloodline started with a mix of somesort, but why not put a end to it & start putting the cross bree were they belong & the full blood were it belong & stop mixing it all up??? I dont care what a guy hunts it is allways nice to hunt with different dogs in a hunt, but when you hunt a Albino, Brown English or a Black white & Tan & get UKC papers you know someone lied to UKC to get them registered. If it is cross breed register it cross breed & that is were it stays it dont become a English or a B&T bloodline 10 years down the road. I dont think anyone should have to go back more than 4 generations to see whats in the bloodline we all know what has gone in the past,but it should stop somewere not just keep making new bylaws so it can continue. cleen up the breeds & keep it there.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location: western central, IL
Posts: 1084

quote:

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Originally posted by Charles Pullen
when will it get voted on by our association . Who votes on it ?

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Registered: Nov 2006
Location: central missouri
Posts: 238

i have no problem with a cross bred registry, but run it separate. Once a cross has been made , make it a cross bred permanently. Just don't bring it back in to the bred, but that's just my opinion. but if it is, at least you will see what you are buying and can change your mind if you want.
preacher

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Registered: Jun 2005
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LOL....I can't wait...I have a young female out of a GrNT Walker and a NtCH B&T that some of you guys would love!!!

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: N.W. corner Wash. St.
Posts: 103

quote:

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Originally posted by Mike Poe
My worry is not that these dogs will take over or out perform what we have.. But more on we will lose some quality black females being bred to another color.. There is not enough good females to go around now.. And I believe this will thin the category that much more.

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big game plotts redbones and black and tans mixed

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Registered: Sep 2014
Location: N.W. corner Wash. St.
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quote:

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Originally posted by rweller
The Associations does NOT vote on this. It is a done deal by UKC. The ABTCHA was not involved in any of this. From my understanding, we will vote on allowing Single registration to be opened up. There will be no need to open up single registration for at least a few years if a dog has to be 80% pure to be eligible.
For example: B & T Days next year(2015) we will vote to open single registration for the year 2016 which will go into effect Jan. 1st 2016 if we would vote to open it. Like I said above, it will take a number of breedings to get a dog back to 80% once a x breeding has been done. So no need to open single registration.

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