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Elvis Black
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: Moncks Corner SC
Posts: 77

I agree there should be no winner. What happens when Sambo owners have thier lawyers conduct and investigation and get thier statements from all involved? Then they will assemble a jury trail down in Georgia and all will have to show up and testify, who is going to pay for people to go back to Georgia and go to a jury trail? I think the best thing would of been to let there be no winner and take this as a learning lesson and steps to making UKC as good as it can get. What happens if the courts tell UKC they have to honor there World Champion Sambo, and they have a re-hunt, do u then have 2 world champions. I’ve heard the owners have Lawyers and they will assemble all evidence and submit to the court in Georgia. This has the potential to big a big mess! There might be another UKC world champ but will always be remembered as the one who didn’t win it on the first time around. It seems like a batter getting 4 strikes in baseball for the dogs that didn’t win the first time around, it don’t seem right.

The only way I can see at legitimate winner is if one of the hounds that got knocked out by a coon being added comes back and wins. Then I would say u have a new world champ, not the dog that got 4 strikes!

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Old Post 12-12-2017 12:49 PM
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joey
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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Read U K C Transcript Of 2017 World Hunt

quote:
Originally posted by Donnie Stevens
They coulda/shoulda sent him home Fri night and blew the call lol.


No they couldn't send him home that's the point so many are missing. They as a business have policies and procedures they have to follow and that's what they did. They cant just say " well so and so called and said you cheated so we are not going to let you hunt" how do you think that would have worked out?

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Old Post 12-12-2017 02:17 PM
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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3360

How can people keep saying "no re-hunt and no 2017 world champion". Exactly who are they trying to punish? If not for the circumstances one of those eleven in the re-hunt would be World Champion. Would you deprive them of this because someone else cheated?

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Old Post 12-12-2017 03:33 PM
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K. Singletary
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
Posts: 1814

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
How can people keep saying "no re-hunt and no 2017 world champion". Exactly who are they trying to punish? If not for the circumstances one of those eleven in the re-hunt would be World Champion. Would you deprive them of this because someone else cheated?


Would there be a re-hunt if the dog that cheated didn't win but came in 3rd?

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Old Post 12-12-2017 06:11 PM
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nitehunter2004
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Would there be a re-hunt if the dog that cheated didn't win but came in 3rd?

One heck of a question.

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Old Post 12-12-2017 06:27 PM
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Ralph Williams
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Jonesborough Tennessee
Posts: 1034

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
How can people keep saying "no re-hunt and no 2017 world champion". Exactly who are they trying to punish? If not for the circumstances one of those eleven in the re-hunt would be World Champion. Would you deprive them of this because someone else cheated?
Those other 11 dogs got beat! Sambo was the ONLY dog with plus points on the final cast! Sambo’s handler might of cheated to get him there BUT regardless of how he got there he beat the other dogs there! I am NOT taking up for Sambo’s handler cause I don’t know him from Adam but I would say they should of stripped him of the title and no world champion this year! It wouldn’t be the first time.

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Old Post 12-12-2017 06:53 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Williams
.... BUT regardless of how he got there...


Oh my goodness, another one of the 50%'s saying that it is all right to cheat to win.

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Old Post 12-12-2017 07:23 PM
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Ralph Williams
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Jonesborough Tennessee
Posts: 1034

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness, another one of the 50%'s saying that it is all right to cheat to win.
ABSOLUTELY NOT!!! You really need to learn to read and NOT put words in my mouth!!! Did you not read all of what i said cause i said he should be stripped of the title?!?! All I was saying is he still beat the others. Period end of story!!

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Old Post 12-12-2017 07:31 PM
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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3360

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Would there be a re-hunt if the dog that cheated didn't win but came in 3rd?
An irrelevant question.

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Old Post 12-12-2017 08:58 PM
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shadinc
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3360

quote:
Originally posted by Ralph Williams
Those other 11 dogs got beat! Sambo was the ONLY dog with plus points on the final cast! Sambo’s handler might of cheated to get him there BUT regardless of how he got there he beat the other dogs there! I am NOT taking up for Sambo’s handler cause I don’t know him from Adam but I would say they should of stripped him of the title and no world champion this year! It wouldn’t be the first time.
There was more than Sambo in the zones that was capable of winning, but they weren't in the finals because they played fair.

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Old Post 12-12-2017 09:02 PM
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Donnie Stevens
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2765

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Read U K C Transcript Of 2017 World Hunt

quote:
Originally posted by joey
No they couldn't send him home that's the point so many are missing. They as a business have policies and procedures they have to follow and that's what they did. They cant just say " well so and so called and said you cheated so we are not going to let you hunt" how do you think that would have worked out?


I meant he shoulda been scratched Fri night at the finals for that other question.

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Old Post 12-12-2017 10:17 PM
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John D
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Missouri
Posts: 4321

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Read U K C Transcript Of 2017 World Hunt

I doubt Sat. night at the zones was the first time this fellow crossed the line. I don't think you go from being an honest handler to one that doctors the scorecard in the world hunt zones and then back to being honest, that easy.

So, don't assume the dog beat every other dog he drew. There is not exactly an avalanche of honest coonhunters vouching for him, if you haven't noticed.

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Old Post 12-12-2017 11:35 PM
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Mark V.
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
Posts: 3060

Where can I find these transcripts

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Old Post 12-13-2017 12:19 AM
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Autumn Clements
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
Posts: 4589

quote:
Originally posted by Mark V.
Where can I find these transcripts

https://www.ukcdogs.com/article/ukc...nship?news_id=4

there's a link on this page Mark

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Old Post 12-13-2017 12:42 AM
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Russell O'Neal
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Old Post 12-13-2017 01:03 AM
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K. Singletary
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2004
Location: Moncks Corner, South Carolina
Posts: 1814

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Would there be a re-hunt if the dog that cheated didn't win but came in 3rd?


quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
An irrelevant question.


Only for the simple minded. You ever hear of precedence. Do re-hunts now extend to local hunts, RQE's, or only when the World Champion is involved? There have been many wins taken from dogs over the years after the fact, but unless I'm not aware of one, there has never been a re-hunt.

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Old Post 12-13-2017 08:22 PM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

From the qualifying hunts to the zones to the finals there was probly at the very least $175,000 dollars spent by the top 100 to get there entry's and expenses I have yet to see one person out of the top 100 get on here and gripe about the rehunt and the ones that are griping are either under a screen name or I never seen them ever In the hunt winners results in any kc and some of you don't even hunt. Next year should be the biggest ukc world hunt ever when all you experts are there showing us how it is done see you there and I have wrote all of you down if you ain't there I am going to call you out on it !!!



Tar

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Old Post 12-13-2017 08:45 PM
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berger
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Lockridge Iowa
Posts: 2841

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Only for the simple minded. You ever hear of precedence. Do re-hunts now extend to local hunts, RQE's, or only when the World Champion is involved? There have been many wins taken from dogs over the years after the fact, but unless I'm not aware of one, there has never been a re-hunt.


Bingo and don't for one second think there won't be other re hunts asked for from here on out!!! Bad decision to re hunt by UKC, pull the title from the dog, bar all individuals responsible.

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Old Post 12-13-2017 10:19 PM
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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:
Originally posted by K. Singletary
Only for the simple minded. You ever hear of precedence. Do re-hunts now extend to local hunts, RQE's, or only when the World Champion is involved? There have been many wins taken from dogs over the years after the fact, but unless I'm not aware of one, there has never been a re-hunt.


The World has different rules than the others. They specifically put in sudden death to eliminate years without a world champion.

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Old Post 12-13-2017 10:51 PM
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Rip
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927

quote:
Originally posted by Elvis Black
I agree there should be no winner. What happens when Sambo owners have thier lawyers conduct and investigation and get thier statements from all involved? Then they will assemble a jury trail down in Georgia and all will have to show up and testify, who is going to pay for people to go back to Georgia and go to a jury trail? I think the best thing would of been to let there be no winner and take this as a learning lesson and steps to making UKC as good as it can get. What happens if the courts tell UKC they have to honor there World Champion Sambo, and they have a re-hunt, do u then have 2 world champions. I’ve heard the owners have Lawyers and they will assemble all evidence and submit to the court in Georgia. This has the potential to big a big mess! There might be another UKC world champ but will always be remembered as the one who didn’t win it on the first time around. It seems like a batter getting 4 strikes in baseball for the dogs that didn’t win the first time around, it don’t seem right.

The only way I can see at legitimate winner is if one of the hounds that got knocked out by a coon being added comes back and wins. Then I would say u have a new world champ, not the dog that got 4 strikes!



No doubt you have heard that, but it is just wishful thinking on the part of the ones wanting to file suit. They don't have a leg to stand on because when you sign up you agree to abide by UKC rules and UKC's decisions. They may not even be able to find a lawyer to take the case, but if they do I don't think it will go very far. I think someone else tried in the 80's about being scratched for hitting a tree, didn't work for them either.

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Old Post 12-13-2017 10:53 PM
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Triple K Kennel
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 4472

True.....

quote:
Originally posted by Rip
No doubt you have heard that, but it is just wishful thinking on the part of the ones wanting to file suit. They don't have a leg to stand on because when you sign up you agree to abide by UKC rules and UKC's decisions. They may not even be able to find a lawyer to take the case, but if they do I don't think it will go very far. I think someone else tried in the 80's about being scratched for hitting a tree, didn't work for them either.


There wouldnt be a Lawyer anywhere that would take this Case, because they dont have a Case.
The Handler Falsified a UKC Document ( Scorecard )....
End of Story........
Tim

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Old Post 12-13-2017 11:02 PM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

This hunt is different than a weekend hunt a world hunt is an elimination style hunt that's the difference.in the prossess of determining the over all winner it has been determined that there was an infraction so all effected directly by the infraction must now continue in the rehunt to determine the over all winner the final cast must hunt until the over all winner is determined.


Tar

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Old Post 12-13-2017 11:09 PM
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nitehunter2004
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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Newton, North Carolina
Posts: 12254

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Old Post 12-13-2017 11:12 PM
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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
....see you there and I have wrote all of you down if you ain't there I am going to call you out....


And I bet that everyone has Tarbaby's name on their list now. What if he doesn't show up? Or even worse what if he does make it that far? Y'all will surely take it easy on him won't you. I mean, he is such a nice guy. And if anyone were to beat him, I am sure that they would be gracious about it. I just hope that no one tries to pull anything on him cause he knows all of the tricks.

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Old Post 12-13-2017 11:12 PM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Anouther year Fred won't need no tricks lol. But if I get beat out you won't ever hear me complain but I am going to try my hardest to get to hunt up there in that coon zoo !!



Tar

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