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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1135

I was going back over the good dogs I have hunted and my brother had a dog called Trailer that was really a good dog but I hated to hunt him. If I had him today I would love him. Problem was he would get out of pocket way too much and you were always looking for him. With the equipment we have today I would love to hunt one like him. If you found him that night he was under a coon but some nights we just couldn't find him. That's what got him killed. Farmer shot him because he was chewing on a dead calf after being lost for 2 days. Equipment has changed the kind of dog we can hunt.

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Old Post 05-14-2024 04:39 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5695

Preacher Tom

Agree 100 percent, the equipment we have today is a game changer. I owned a English dog in the early seventies that was a real good coon dog, but ran deer every chance he got, the shock COLLARS then were not good enough or had the reach in these mountains to stop him. Without that FAULT he sure could tree coons, but that was a serious FAULT for me. I sold him to a hunter that did not hunt where there were any deer and he swore that he was the best dog he had ever seen. Wide hunting dogs were often lost due to treeing out of hearing in a deep hollow or across a mountain that could of been located with the TRACKING COLLARS we have today. I look back at several dogs that could have been special if we had the equipment we have today. Hunting nowadays we always know where the dogs are and can correct bad behavior at the push of a button. I would not think of hunting without the equipment I own today. Dave

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Old Post 05-14-2024 09:00 PM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1937

Re: Re: I find it funny—

quote:
Originally posted by Kler Kry
I looked at it as my TOP DOG. There is only one BEST that I ever owned. I prefer to breed, my dogs or buy them as puppies and raise and train them. Currently my best is Zip a dog out of my Penney and Rex dogs. Rex made the top 100 and died of blasto at a young age. Zip is a Gr Nt Ch and qualified for TOC the last two years. He is as good as I'ved hunted with in his lifetime. There was Liz, Drum, Josie, Tramp, Belle, Rock, Spot, Nellie, Black Jack and the list goes on. Ive had the same stock since 1972 when I bought Michelob as a started dog. I bought Penney as a pup in 2011 because her mother had the performance level that I liked. I believe that it takes 1000 hours to peak an Outstanding dog. I had pain with every step since 2004 until I couldnt walk except with crutches 2 1/2 years ago, but I'm pain free for the last 2 years and at 75 years old I'm working pups that might be better than Michelob and Penney!

MY DEFINITION OF AN OUTSTANDING DOG
*They perform the same in any weather.
*They perform the same in all geographic areas,
*They dominate a hunt strike and tree.
*They make PACK dogs out of LOANER types after the first coon.
*They are very Quick averaging less than 10 minutes strike to tree on March coon.

Just my opinion, but the current Nite Hunt rules promote dogs that won't compete against each other and compete against the clock instead making it difficult to determine the best dog from Nite Hunt Results. If you want to evaluate a dog it is always best to go hunt with them one on one with your best dog or the best dog that you can borrow and the longer the hunt the more likely that your evaluation will be accurate. Ken Risley



I agree with your thought process…outstanding dogs don’t have bad days…just some days better than others…
They can hunt in all terrains that other dogs specialize in…
They look good in any company…
I also believe a good handler knows what he or she is looking at…

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Old Post 05-15-2024 12:58 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5695

Rueben

I agree that a good handler knows what the dog is and is not. I was young when I got to see a top coon dog perform. I thought I had a good dog until I hunted with him, then I realized mine was very average or just decent. He became my measuring stick and I looked at dogs different from that time on. I NEVER had the time or desire to train dogs, but always wanted the best I could find and buy. I knew that special dogs existed, but were rare. I owned a few that came close, but come up short compared to my measuring stick. A top dog is something else and just makes good dogs seem average at best. My first Top dog made me search hard for another one and I believe made me a better handler/owner, as I no longer settled for average dogs. Dave

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Old Post 05-15-2024 02:26 PM
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treedog2345
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Registered: Jul 2016
Location:
Posts: 514

My first good dog was sold to me becouse of how deep she hunted . An older man brought her to tn from ky and didn't have a tracking system . She would not pass a coon up but would be treed somewhere and I know this is a stretch to people today but either had a legit den or eyes looking at you . She was the first top dog I ever owned . Move any kind of track any weather not a hard treedog about 45 barks a min standing at base of tree and would shut up when you put her on lead but you could count on her to ve the same every drop I was younger then and spent alot of nights waiting or driving and listening put me in strange country alot but would always have a coon... we could road hunt her 5 nights a week and drop the 6th and never changed or phased her wish I had another like her. Brains and knose together rode in truck and stayed in house some miss that old hound.. heavy spring creek breeding ugly open spotted little dog but could flst tree co0n in these big mountains

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Old Post 05-17-2024 10:17 PM
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treedog2345
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Registered: Jul 2016
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My first good dog was sold to me becouse of how deep she hunted . An older man brought her to tn from ky and didn't have a tracking system . She would not pass a coon up but would be treed somewhere and I know this is a stretch to people today but either had a legit den or eyes looking at you . She was the first top dog I ever owned . Move any kind of track any weather not a hard treedog about 45 barks a min standing at base of tree and would shut up when you put her on lead but you could count on her to ve the same every drop I was younger then and spent alot of nights waiting or driving and listening put me in strange country alot but would always have a coon... we could road hunt her 5 nights a week and drop the 6th and never changed or phased her wish I had another like her. Brains and knose together rode in truck and stayed in house some miss that old hound.. heavy spring creek breeding ugly open spotted little dog but could flst tree co0n in these big mountains

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Old Post 05-17-2024 10:17 PM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5695

Top Coon dog

quote:
Originally posted by treedog2345
My first good dog was sold to me becouse of how deep she hunted . An older man brought her to tn from ky and didn't have a tracking system . She would not pass a coon up but would be treed somewhere and I know this is a stretch to people today but either had a legit den or eyes looking at you . She was the first top dog I ever owned . Move any kind of track any weather not a hard treedog about 45 barks a min standing at base of tree and would shut up when you put her on lead but you could count on her to ve the same every drop I was younger then and spent alot of nights waiting or driving and listening put me in strange country alot but would always have a coon... we could road hunt her 5 nights a week and drop the 6th and never changed or phased her wish I had another like her. Brains and knose together rode in truck and stayed in house some miss that old hound.. heavy spring creek breeding ugly open spotted little dog but could flst tree co0n in these big mountains


Enjoyed your post, I bet you miss her bad, seems like the good ones get old way to fast. I bet she spoiled you knowing what a Top Coon Dog could do. Dave

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Old Post 05-17-2024 10:35 PM
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treedog2345
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Registered: Jul 2016
Location:
Posts: 514

Sure did I am not that old but I an glad I hinted with a real track dog that could tree and not a tree dog that couldn't track.. most people my age are going to the money side hot knosed type but I'll take a hound that can grub and not stand on its head and move a track with its head in the air and not be trashy , loose mouthed,not a kennel pacer, just a solid top dog that makes you happy to turn loose and in the 3nd you don't have to make excuses they are the same if hunted 6 nights or 2 times a month they do not change . That is what started me and now you can't find one like that. I spent alot of m9ney trying to find one drove alot of nights withought sleep 4 states away to try dogs bought a few and regretted it can not find one that compares to that old dog. Alot of folks when I was a teenager would not hunt her becouse of no trackers ,no money yo buy one either but she would flat tree you a coon and do it right...

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Old Post 05-17-2024 10:42 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5695

treedog2345

It warms my heart to read your post, makes me recall my younger days when I first hunted with a Top Coon Dog. I am so glad you got one at a young age and like you I definitely want a dog that can track a cold nosed track running dog is what I like. I started this thread just to hear replies ( read ) of hunters like yourself that has owned or hunted with a Top dog. I NEVER get tired of hearing about a really good or great dog in any sport. Dave

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Old Post 05-18-2024 08:53 PM
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treedog2345
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Registered: Jul 2016
Location:
Posts: 514

Re: treedog2345

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
It warms my heart to read your post, makes me recall my younger days when I first hunted with a Top Coon Dog. I am so glad you got one at a young age and like you I definitely want a dog that can track a cold nosed track running dog is what I like. I started this thread just to hear replies ( read ) of hunters like yourself that has owned or hunted with a Top dog. I NEVER get tired of hearing about a really good or great dog in any sport. Dave
yes sir I agree . I am not 50 years old got a few years left till I hot the mild stone lol but the sport and dogs have changed so much in the last 30 years I hope we can keep top hounds in whatever breed you hunt it looks like they are getting fewer and fewer . And I am not by any means saying there are no good hounds left there most certainly are. But they used to be more common. And I know our desire doesn't change the conditions do amd we ha e to adapt to the conditions just like our hounds but I sure miss the true brainey hound that could make you fall in love with a coondog and the sport for the sport of it not the titleor money

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Old Post 05-18-2024 10:35 PM
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treedog2345
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Registered: Jul 2016
Location:
Posts: 514

Re: treedog2345

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
It warms my heart to read your post, makes me recall my younger days when I first hunted with a Top Coon Dog. I am so glad you got one at a young age and like you I definitely want a dog that can track a cold nosed track running dog is what I like. I started this thread just to hear replies ( read ) of hunters like yourself that has owned or hunted with a Top dog. I NEVER get tired of hearing about a really good or great dog in any sport. Dave
yes sir I agree . I am not 50 years old got a few years left till I hot the mild stone lol but the sport and dogs have changed so much in the last 30 years I hope we can keep top hounds in whatever breed you hunt it looks like they are getting fewer and fewer . And I am not by any means saying there are no good hounds left there most certainly are. But they used to be more common. And I know our desire doesn't change the conditions do amd we ha e to adapt to the conditions just like our hounds but I sure miss the true brainey hound that could make you fall in love with a coondog and the sport for the sport of it not the titleor money

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Old Post 05-18-2024 10:35 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5695

Top Coon Dog

I would love to hear ( read ) some more posts about others experiences in owning or hunting with a Top Coon Dog. Come on and post about that special dog, one that really opened your eyes. I enjoy reading posts on these special dogs. Dave

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Old Post 05-22-2024 03:45 AM
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buff1978
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Registered: Jun 2023
Location:
Posts: 63

Beagle

This isn't coonhunting but it's about a dog in the beagle world.bought him as a pup for my sons 16th bday present in 1996. Let him run loose on the farm.came home after work one day in August,about 100 in the shade and 95%humidity. He was 9 and a half months old out running rabbits in the standing cornfields.he would come in and lay on the porch for about a half hour then back out after them.i thought man that darn dog is crazy running in this heat.but I turned out to be the one that was crazy.we never failed to shoot rabbits in front of that dog from the first day we took him hunting until he passed.had a few of my buddies get together and went hunting on.A Sunday morning they brought along a pair of dogs.well old scooter showed those dogs and there owners how to run rabbits and run them right.in a hour and a half I shot 18 rabbits in front of him and they got a total of 4 with the other 2 dogs.word spread pretty fast how good of a dog we had.might not be no world record but I'll take it.he hunted hard and didn't like to quit but we killed a ton of rabbits over that dog.no trash problems either.little off subject but sitting here without power after a storm blew thru and got me reminiscing about days gone past and top dogs whether coonhound or other breeds.

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Old Post 05-22-2024 04:15 AM
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Kler Kry
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Registered: Sep 2009
Location: Monticello, Wi
Posts: 751

Outstanding Dogs

There never has been very many outstanding dogs of any breed and that is what makes it so difficult for the dog breeder. What most call outstanding are just nice average dogs. I used to travel thousands of miles to checkout a dog only to find it to be about average. I used to wonder why hunters would lie and waste my time. But concluded that in most cases they weren't intentionally lieing. They had never hunted a TOP dog!
We all use the same words, but the meaning is not the same.
I've got more fingers than TOP dogs that I've hunted with in my 65 years of hunting.
Dick Hershberger from Wichita, Ks used to hunt on my family farm at Adams, Ks. I think I was about 7 years old and I'd lay in bed listening to his hounds. My Dad finally let me go along. I remember Oklahoma Spot, Star and Maggie. Star treed more coon and always lead with a chop mouth, but Dick like Spot and Maggie better because they had big bawl mouths. One night I asked if I could take my coondog, which was an english shepard/border collie. Joe treed all the coon that night and i was never invited to go along again.

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Old Post 05-22-2024 03:47 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5695

Ken Risley

Yes Sir., I agree that Top dogs in any sport are rare. The first one I hunted with in the early seventies was the one that spoiled me. I had decent dogs up to that point, but he was just superior in every way. I spent the following years hunting for another dog equal to him. He was my measuring stick and made good dogs look like pups. I have hunted for over 60 years and owned dogs for over 55 years and have only seen/ hunted 3 dogs that were top coon dogs. I owned a few that were close, but had a hole keeping them from being a truly top coon dog. I hunted in many states North and South trying dogs, looking for a Top dog only to find them average or at best good. I agree with you that most hunters have never hunted with a Top Coon Dog, mistaking good or average dogs to be be top coon dogs. I am not really surprised at how scarce top dogs are as there are few top performers in any sport including human sports. Dave

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Old Post 05-22-2024 11:24 PM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
Posts: 3399

20618 men have played in MLB. 273 are in the HOF. That's 1.3%. I think we'll all agree the 20 thousand were all good ball players. Only 1.3% were elite. So there's plenty good coon dogs, not many hall of fame dogs. And after reading what some of you call a top dog, in 65 years of coon hunting I've never owned one.

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Dave Richards
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Donald

Thanks for posting those stats. Even among the HOF there was even fewer that were truly special players. I was very lucky to witness my first special coon dog and I was young ( early twenties) that dog opened my eyes and good dogs were no longer my quest, as I wanted special. I looked long and hard the next 50 years and only found 2 other special dogs. Looking back I know that I was very fortunate to even find 1. Had I not hunted with my first special dog, I would never known how good a coon dog could actually be. I have owned several good dogs that others thought were special, I did not knowing what special really was. Seeing a special dog tree coons that other good dogs never knew existed and having the coon every time was remarkable. A truly special dog is something to behold. I was never happy with less even though I treed lots of coons with less than special dogs. I spent lots of time and money over the years looking for a special dog only to be disappointed after hunting with them. Using your baseball analogy there are a lot of decent and several good players, but only a few really elite players. Innate ability must be there to truly excel, no amount of practice can replace that rare talent that some have, human or animal. Dave

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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1135

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
20618 men have played in MLB. 273 are in the HOF. That's 1.3%. I think we'll all agree the 20 thousand were all good ball players. Only 1.3% were elite. So there's plenty good coon dogs, not many hall of fame dogs. And after reading what some of you call a top dog, in 65 years of coon hunting I've never owned one.


Donald, I also have hunted for about 65 years and had a lot of dogs but never even hunted with one that would match the description of top dog night after night. I've really enjoyed my pretty good dogs and when I took them to town found out they were better than a lot of the dogs I had been hearing about.

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Old Post 05-23-2024 02:46 PM
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Dave Richards
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Preacher Tom

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Donald, I also have hunted for about 65 years and had a lot of dogs but never even hunted with one that would match the description of top dog night after night. I've really enjoyed my pretty good dogs and when I took them to town found out they were better than a lot of the dogs I had been hearing about.


Nothing wrong with hunting a good dog, even though they may not be a Top Coon Dog by definition. I do not think many hunters have ever seen much less owned a truly top coon dog. I got real lucky with my first one as the man who owned him was not one of my hunting buddies. I knew him and he knew me and he knew that I had good dogs so he wanted to hunt with me. I learned that first night hunting with him and his dog that I had never seen a dog that good before. I hunted with him many times after that and was finally able to buy his dog. After that I always judged every dog with him being my measuring stick. I owned several good dogs after that, but was always looking for another dog in his class. I was fortunate to own 2 more top coon dogs by any man's measure. I know that Top dogs exist and hunted hard and long to find them. If I was younger and healthier now, I would find another, they are rare, but do exist. Dave

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Old Post 05-25-2024 02:50 AM
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MOcoondogs
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Registered: Nov 2021
Location: MO
Posts: 164

My 2 top coondogs would have never satisfied the appetite of today's hunters. 25-30 years ago I got a pup that took nearly 2 years to start but once he did he made a coondog! I always hunted him alone until he was 6 and he just never really hunted good with other dogs, making him a poor comp dog. But I recall treeing coons with him around here when others weren't able to. I recall 1 night it was -10 and he grubbed out an old track that ended with 1 on the outside. The next day at work everybody that came in to compare their night's catch (the place where I work was a common place for loafers and story tellers) had come up empty, houndsmen and trappers alike.
But my favorite was a male pup out of him that was a slow starter as well. Oddly enough he was so smart! You could get him to track anything you put him on once you made him understand what you wanted him to do, he just wouldn't tree until he came near 2 years old. I would take him out hunting and he would strike and work a track then come back. I began using him to track crippled deer for people and had a high success rate of retrieving them, so much that he had quite a local rep. I continued hunting him at night until finally 1 night he ended a track with a tree. It was a possum just barely out of reach. Well being the strict coon hunter I was you don't think I would have knocked it out to him do you? Oh I did! Then I skinned that $1 possum and cut him loose again. He treed me 2 single coon before we got back to the truck. I continued to use him on crippled deer and coon hunt him with only 1 incedent where he bayed a crippled deer when I was coon hunting him. His reputation was so well known locally that once there was a 5 year old autistic boy who was lost in the woods in our community and the search and rescue team had looked all day and they called me, as it began to come night fall, to bring him to help search. fortunately they found the boy safe and sound before I got there. In the short years I got to hunt him I only saw 2 slick trees and I hardly recall a night when he didn't tree a possum or a coon.
So no these weren't greats by today's hunters standards but they were my favorite 2!

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Preacher Tom
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 1135

Re: Preacher Tom

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Nothing wrong with hunting a good dog, even though they may not be a Top Coon Dog by definition. I do not think many hunters have ever seen much less owned a truly top coon dog. I got real lucky with my first one as the man who owned him was not one of my hunting buddies. I knew him and he knew me and he knew that I had good dogs so he wanted to hunt with me. I learned that first night hunting with him and his dog that I had never seen a dog that good before. I hunted with him many times after that and was finally able to buy his dog. After that I always judged every dog with him being my measuring stick. I owned several good dogs after that, but was always looking for another dog in his class. I was fortunate to own 2 more top coon dogs by any man's measure. I know that Top dogs exist and hunted hard and long to find them. If I was younger and healthier now, I would find another, they are rare, but do exist. Dave




Dave, in todays prices for coon dogs, I wonder what a top coon dog would cost? It would be high as a top coon dog could and would win some of these big money hunts no matter what kc. Or at least that's my thoughts.

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Old Post 05-25-2024 03:10 PM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1937

quote:
Originally posted by shadinc
20618 men have played in MLB. 273 are in the HOF. That's 1.3%. I think we'll all agree the 20 thousand were all good ball players. Only 1.3% were elite. So there's plenty good coon dogs, not many hall of fame dogs. And after reading what some of you call a top dog, in 65 years of coon hunting I've never owned one.


I tend to watch statistical data as well…dogs, doctors, engineers, chemical operators, mainly people in general in all wwalks of life which also includes dog breeding and folks who analyze their own and other hunting dog…
When baseball players are analyzed in high school to play college ball, many will be selected to play college ball…when selecting college players for pro ball the selection is from fewer players and these players will perform at a higher level…yes, sometimes some excellent players will be overlooked.
If we take a hundred of these pro ball players when analyzing players per position, we will find that 20 are above-average, 60 are average, and the other 20 are below average…this method seems to work for many things…
You take the top 20 pro ball players and select the top 10% from those and we will have selected 2…we then go back to the start of the analytical process when we began analyzing the 100 pro players…and when we calculate the top 2 players into 100 players the percentage is 2 percent…
A theory I developed working around chemical engineers…IMO a chemical engineer, besides running and maintaining a plant process is also supposed to improve the operation. This requires thinking outside the box…my thinking is that in college they learn what has already been proven and are taught to learn…and those that learn what has already been discovered and are not graded enough for original thinking…then the system will produce more of the same…
We can take some of this and apply it to our hunting dogs as well…

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Old Post 05-25-2024 05:06 PM
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Dave Richards
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Re: Re: Preacher Tom

quote:
Originally posted by Preacher Tom
Dave, in todays prices for coon dogs, I wonder what a top coon dog would cost? It would be high as a top coon dog could and would win some of these big money hunts no matter what kc. Or at least that's my thoughts.


Preacher Tom, you are correct in your thinking, both in price and what the dog could earn in the money hunts. I have always lamented the fact that I never got the chance to hunt the first 2 top dogs in the money hunts as the money hunts were just not popular at the time. In today's climate of big money hunts, I believe they would have been dominant winners. I can honestly say that the money I spent on those 3 dogs was the best money I ever spent. Every hunter that hunted with them was amazed, many of those hunters were hunters that had hunted for many years and said they had never seen one that good. Watching a Top dog perform never got old at least for me. Dave

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Old Post 05-25-2024 05:41 PM
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buff1978
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Money

You got me thinking about this money thing,whether it's the hunts or price of dogs.iam sure quite of few of us have listened to these podcasts that different people are putting on.some of these well known breeders were thousands of dollars for dogs back in the 60s and early 70s.we didn't have the money,truck hunts back then.coon hides were at a all time high in the late 70s.old days verses today which dogs were more expensive to buy.

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Old Post 05-25-2024 06:54 PM
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Dave Richards
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Posts: 5695

Buff1978

The really good ones were really expensive in the old days as well as today. My first Top dog was owned by a man who hide hunted and made a decent living doing so. He would travel to places with thick coons and stay for a week or so, selling the green hides for 30 dollars or more making 1500 or more per week. That was real good money for that time period. He would hunt and sell coon hides all fall and winter. The money hunts have drove up prices for dogs these days, with average dogs selling for top money. Top Coon Dogs are bringing unreal prices that put them out of reach for most coon hunters. Dave

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Old Post 05-25-2024 07:18 PM
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