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Richard Lambert
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 17537

Isn't it amazing, old guys that don't hunt against the dogs of today and only remember the dogs of yesteryear think that they were better than the dogs of today. Young guys that never hunted with the dogs of yesteryear think that the dogs of today are better than the dogs of yesteryear.

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Old Post 10-08-2019 02:25 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9435

What choo talken bout Willis !!! I still hunt when I can aint been about 3 years ago I was on fire in the $$$ hunts. Some of us get stuck behind the moh desk. I think itís your turn to be a moh Richard surly your red dogs are famous enough by now.


Tar

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Old Post 10-08-2019 02:55 PM
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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 843

quote:
Originally posted by Team Mafia 2
One thing I Know is they All get better after they are dead. I look at it like this. If the dogs of yesterday were truly better than the dogs of today you older guys have failed my generation in the breeding department. All of you guys talk about breeding for better dogs every time and if youíve done that there shouldnít be a comparison to the dogs of yesterday to the dogs of today. What Iím getting at is You older guys that truly believe dogs were better 40 years ago are either A) Worthless breeders B) Liars (c Stuck in the past. Just let me know which one yíall want to admit to being.


Spoken like a true millennial, always someone elseís fault 😂.

But in all honesty I think a lot of dog today show more balance then the dogs of yesterday. I do think dogs of yesterday on average were more accurate then today. Back in the day when a dog treed it had a Coon, today a truly accurate dog is like a unicorn. IMO the independence has also hurt the ability of dogs. To further explain , if a dog stays alone, it canít be out struck or treed in front of by the other dogs, just out hunt them and be alone. To be clear, Iím not saying this doesnít win or isnít a fast action type dog, but itís isnt the trailing and locating ability that many older guys recognize and appreciate.

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Old Post 10-08-2019 02:55 PM
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Bruce m. Conkey
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 4190

.

Back in the day, back in the day, back in the day. Anybody, any company, any sport, any anything that lives back in the day is outdated. Information and I should say accurate information is what people use to make decisions to improve on anything. Now I am not talking about getting information off Facebook, even message boards. Unless you trust the person.
I am talking about factual results, breedings taking place, pups that making there daddy proud. All info is available if you know where to look and who to talk to and who to trust.
The best way is to pack your or your handlers bags and hunt against some of these dogs. And some of their pups.

A lot of these pups and crosses being made are on the edge of success or failure. Difference is the edge of success many many years ago depended on if they would do anything. Today the edge of success and the cliff they fall off of, is not because they don't do anything. They just do too much of unproductive nonsense. Their genetics have been improved to the point they are going to do something. It still takes a dog man to figure out the puzzle and move forward with their next pup.

Three big IF's in the old days. IF you can get them to hunt, IF you can get them to run and IF you can get them to tree.
Most of those IF's have been solved and todays are. IF the will shut up in the pen. IF they will strike a coon or run through the woods barking till they hit a hot one. IF the coon is in the tree.

With all the IF's. It still brings a lot of peace to someone that enjoys the outdoors.

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Last edited by Bruce m. Conkey on 10-08-2019 at 03:18 PM

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Old Post 10-08-2019 03:15 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9435

Gosh I must have been blessed to have been in an area full of balanced , early starting , accurate coon treeing dogs.



BACK IN THE DAY !!!!!



Tar

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Old Post 10-08-2019 03:24 PM
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Sonny Phipps
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Sep 2007
Location: Glenmont,Ohio
Posts: 843

Bruce and tar, I will agree to a lot of what youíre saying. Bruce,You always bring wisdom and ďfull thoughtĒ in what you say/post. Tar, I did not know you back in those times (and donít know you now) but from many of your posts I do believe you were blessed with many balanced dogs in run and gun years.
Itís a changing world and we all need to look at todayís dogs and challenges in a different light. I still enjoy a cold nosed track dog with a big mouth and locate that is accurate. Problem is that my preferred type of dog doesnít win at a level it did at one time. The thing I enjoy the most from todayís breeding that I didnít have years ago is the big motor. I really enjoy a dog that sink in the country deep at a fast rate if needed. To me that wasnít common years ago.

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Old Post 10-08-2019 03:36 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9435

Sonny the main ingredient that a dog has to have here is determination to finish what it starts a dog that drops tracks and blows out often ends up with nothing. Some of what I hunt if you can imagine it is like sending a dog in a dozer pile. Yes back in the day there were duds just like now but I was right in the middle of a lot of top breeders that hunted hard if you didnít want to hunt till just in time to go to work you didnít go with them. Three hrs wasent nothing to them they hunted all night every night. Somtimes we would go hunting after the hunt then hunt in the hunt the next night. I donít even want to hunt like that no more but thatís what it took to excell back then it took hard work and dedication.


Tar

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Old Post 10-08-2019 03:49 PM
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Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 581

Just my observations from 60, yes 60, years of coon hunting. Back in the day we had a lot of worthless dogs, today we have a lot of worthless dogs. Back in the day we had dogs that just wouldn't make tree dogs, today most dogs will tree. Back in the day we had dogs that could fly on a track, today I don't see that as much unless it's a red hot track. Back in the day we had dogs that would tree every tree in the woods and not have anything, today we have the same dogs just more of them (but with our equipment we can stop a least some of it). Back in the day a good dog was scarce, today they are pretty common. Back in the day a great dog was very scarce, today they are very scarce. back in the day buying a pup that would make a good dog was really hard, today it's pretty easy if you go to the right source. Never hunted competition a lot so this is really from a pleasure hunters perspective. Perfect world: give me the area we had to hunt 50 years ago with todays dogs and todays coon population. Oh, also give me my Garmin!!! I might add that I never had the money back in the day to pay much for a dog or a pup so that probably affects how I see things. Today to pay $500 for a pup doesn't bother me.

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Last edited by Preacher Tom on 10-08-2019 at 04:44 PM

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Old Post 10-08-2019 04:40 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9435

Tom how long back then would you hunt one that wouldnít do nothing or run all night and not tree ? I can tell you how long I would put up with it.


Tar

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Old Post 10-08-2019 04:46 PM
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Preacher Tom
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Feb 2015
Location: NW Arkansas
Posts: 581

Like I said earlier. I had some but I didn't have them long. LOL.

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Tom Wood

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Old Post 10-08-2019 05:48 PM
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Chuck Allen
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1076

Tom , Tar , Dalton and everyone else is right in their own way about the dogs of the Past , Present and Future , I would love to have my Jake and Dixie dogs back from 30 years ago , and would sure as heck like to have my General Lee and Burner back from 40 years ago as well. The dogs of the past got us HOOKED the dogs of the Present and future is what we all want but there are dogs that are sure fun to hunt even if they do not win much and these dogs are the ones we really miss after they are gone. No matter what dog has been mans best friend , hunting partner and protector of family , hearth and home since time began.

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Chuck Allen
UKC Forum Member

Registered: May 2012
Location: Amerika land of the free?
Posts: 1076

Tom , Tar , Dalton and everyone else is right in their own way about the dogs of the Past , Present and Future , I would love to have my Jake and Dixie dogs back from 30 years ago , and would sure as heck like to have my General Lee and Burner back from 40 years ago as well. The dogs of the past got us HOOKED the dogs of the Present and future is what we all want but there are dogs that are sure fun to hunt even if they do not win much and these dogs are the ones we really miss after they are gone. No matter what dog has been mans best friend , hunting partner and protector of family , hearth and home since time began.

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 821

Iím guilty of not liking a cold nosed dog...but I like even less a straight line running hot nosed dog that passes up good tracks for a smoking hot track...it doesnít matter if it was 40 years ago or today... I still donít like those dogs...


It shouldnít matter if coon are thick or thin...

The kind of dog I liked 40 years ago I still like them the same today...competition rules can change but the style of dog I like will not change...

It seems to me everyone should breed this type of all around hunting dog unless it is a specialty dog...

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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 821

quote:
Originally posted by Reuben
Iím guilty of not liking a cold nosed dog...but I like even less a straight line running hot nosed dog that passes up good tracks for a smoking hot track...it doesnít matter if it was 40 years ago or today... I still donít like those dogs...


It shouldnít matter if coon are thick or thin...

The kind of dog I liked 40 years ago I still like them the same today...competition rules can change but the style of dog I like will not change...

It seems to me everyone should breed this type of all around hunting dog unless it is a specialty dog...



Yadkintar...shouldnít a well balanced hunting dog of 40 years ago be the same dog today?

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Old Post 10-09-2019 02:17 PM
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yadkintar
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9435

Well we conditioned them to hunt and be productive for three hours back then we had no tracking systems so they had to be well trained. Now days if you hunt in a large $$$ hunt you hunt 11/2 hrs in 2 rounds which is 3 hrs you have a tracking system so you know where they are at all times so maybe they do not need be as well trained to handle and are allowed to cover more ground faster. By the rules they can bark and receive good credit for it now. We could not get by with it back then. But a coondog then would be the same as a coondog now. I donít see as many now as I did then Bruce nailed it we skinned coons for our money which was all profit. They hunt in hunts for money now which if you run the roads hard and win you might break even.


The new $200 ,000 hunt with ukc is the biggest bang for your buck out there. The coondogs of today will be there.


Tar

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Old Post 10-09-2019 02:50 PM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1218

Re: Re: Re: Amazing to me.

quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
We culled those we was skinnen coons pilgrim !!


Tar



Tar that's where she ended up. She didn't have an early start on anything but a kennel. She was never turned loose until we brought her here. So before we judged to early we figured we had better put more than a few weeks into her.

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Old Post 10-09-2019 10:03 PM
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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3417

Dogs

As many have stated before on different threads, it really did depend on what part of the country one lived in as to what type of coondog they preferred. I grew up in upper East Tennessee near the Virginia border and coons were scarce in this part of the country. If you had a top notch coondog, you might catch 20 to 30 in a whole hunting season ( fall and winter ). We used to go on hunting trips to other parts of the country i.e. eastern Virginia, Indiania, etc and thought we were in coon paradise. We could tree more coons in a week than a whole hunting season at home. In these early days of thin coons, we enjoyed the cold nosed track dogs that didn't run across a cold coon track hoping to find a hotter track. Today we have a decent coon population and most of us prefer a medium nosed track dog, no need for the cold walk them up style of dog these days. Just the opposite, you can tree more coons with a hotter nosed dog these days. Coon population sure dies dictate the type of dogs one prefers or at least in my opinion. I feel that the reason so many folks on this board have such different opinions about coon dogs has more to do with where they hunt and the coon population than any other reason. Dave

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CHEWBACH
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2007
Location: monroeville OH
Posts: 2554

well before I hit the timber!! gonna say I had some dang good dogs back in the day! and I still have some dang good dogs today! my theory on what a good dog hasn't changed a bit. a good dog back then would have been a good one today or a good one today would have been a good one back in the day. all in your definition on what a good one is . My standards of a coondog hasn't changed. it is or isn't . when ya hunt crap like I do standards are pretty low tho! lol

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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 821

quote:
Originally posted by CHEWBACH
well before I hit the timber!! gonna say I had some dang good dogs back in the day! and I still have some dang good dogs today! my theory on what a good dog hasn't changed a bit. a good dog back then would have been a good one today or a good one today would have been a good one back in the day. all in your definition on what a good one is . My standards of a coondog hasn't changed. it is or isn't .


I totally agree...I canít see someone lowering their standards just to win a competition...

On what Dave said...the good thing about having scarce game every now and then is when we find out what kind of dogs we hunt...

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Old Post 10-11-2019 02:28 AM
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Reuben
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 821

quote:
Originally posted by CHEWBACH
well before I hit the timber!! gonna say I had some dang good dogs back in the day! and I still have some dang good dogs today! my theory on what a good dog hasn't changed a bit. a good dog back then would have been a good one today or a good one today would have been a good one back in the day. all in your definition on what a good one is . My standards of a coondog hasn't changed. it is or isn't .


I totally agree...I canít see someone lowering their standards just to win a competition...

On what Dave said...the good thing about having scarce game every now and then is when we find out what kind of dogs we hunt...

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Dave Richards
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3417

Reuben

I agree 100 percent, back when coons were scarce, you knew what kind of coondog you had. Many nights a real good dog would not even get a bark. I just don't know how most dogs would act if they had to hunt where coons were scarce and trash was plentiful. We bragged on a clean trash free hound a lot back in those days. Today most dogs are relatively trash free dogs, but the coon population is much higher in these parts. I think a lot of the trash running has been bred out of our modern dogs though even the pups don't seem to want to run trash. I also, agree that a coondog was a coondog in the past and a coondog is a coondog in the present. We all want that extra special coondog, and sometimes we actually find one that we think is special. Do we all have the same standards in evaluating a coondog? I don't think we do, but as some would say, " if it suits you, that's all it has to do". I agree with that statement, but I am hard to please and that's just me to each his own. Dave

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DL NH
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Registered: Jan 2016
Location:
Posts: 210

"...the good thing about having scarce game every now and then is when we find out what kind of dogs we hunt..."

That is the bare bones truth right there. Not much more disheartening then to think you've got a heck of a hound only to find out they're not what you thought they were when game is scarce. Been there!!

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