Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

I once read that the pups can only be as good as the parents...from my experience that is not true. Closer to the truth is, the pups can only be as good as what is in the parents...

I also believe in how the pregnant gyp is handled can change the pups during the gestation period, especially after the 6th week of gestation...if you hunt coon let her bay a coon in a roll cage...take her hunting...feed her coon etc...

Let us hear your thought process on the "outside the box breeding better dogs"...thanks

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
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Old Timer in the store the other day said it best. Always breed up. Never breed down and don't breed because you heard the dog was good. Check it out for yourself.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

Over a 20 year period with 6 and 7 generations on the females and 3 and 4 generations on the males, the dogs hunted faster, ranged further and had more grit as the generations progressed, and that is about how I came up with the belief that it is not only about what the parents are but also what is in the parents as well...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Minnesota
Posts: 1541

Do you think "if" you are hunting her and she catches a big old bad one on the ground and gets whip, will the pups lose their grit???

I like the idea about the roll cage but get a little worried when hunting a female that is bagging up and what can happen with brush and fences.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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If you take a pregnant female to a comp hunt and she wins will that make the pups winners?

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

When a dog either sex is born it's born with its reproducing ability. There have been world champions that could not reproduce at all there have been dogs that have never been hunted at all that through coondogs and there are no guarentees the same cross will work twice.

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

I believe that when a truly once in a lifetime dog is born that that dog will not reproduce himself for some obvious reasons and probably quite a bit more than what we know...in my mind those genes that make up that dog had to set up in a way that will be hard to duplicate...kind of like winning a small lotto...

I do not think that if the pregnant female won the big hunt that the pups will grow up to do the same just because she won it...I am just saying that there could be an inclination for the pups to like coon a little more than if never exposed to it...there are many findings of changes with human babies when the mama exposes the baby to different surroundings and foods etc., crack babies are born crack addicts.

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 902

What you mean by feed the female coon?

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

I shouldn't have said feed some coon to your dog. I would feed the females a hog foot with some meat on it to the females and the pups at 5-8 weeks old a raw hog head out in the yard...always in the morning before feeding time...2 or 3 times at most just to get them to know what a hog is and I hope it helps in making a better hog dog...I know this is a coon dog site...but you guys keep it interesting here so I visit here first...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 902

Just never heard of that before, that's all.

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location: Kentucky
Posts: 429

Better listen to yadkintar on this one

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: North east Texas
Posts: 323

Always breed up and that's so true but you really don't have any control of a pup going to another home. You can't hunt them enough to make a coonhound out of a pup without anything bread into it. A dud is a dud. But you can't make a hound out of a pup left in the kennel through baseball, golf ,fishing, are what ever thing your into at the time you should be doing things with that pup.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

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Originally posted by Reuben
I believe that when a truly once in a lifetime dog is born that that dog will not reproduce himself for some obvious reasons and probably quite a bit more than what we know...in my mind those genes that make up that dog had to set up in a way that will be hard to duplicate...kind of like winning a small lotto...

I do not think that if the pregnant female won the big hunt that the pups will grow up to do the same just because she won it...I am just saying that there could be an inclination for the pups to like coon a little more than if never exposed to it...there are many findings of changes with human babies when the mama exposes the baby to different surroundings and foods etc., crack babies are born crack addicts.

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Last edited by joey on 06-13-2017 at 02:52 AM

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

A short story:

My grandson was having a birthday party at my house about 12 years ago...one of the kids that showed up was a relative on the other side of the family and he was about 4 years old...all the little kids got to playing outside when my grandson and a few others came running in all excited...they said, Caden is eating the peppers and I said no way...of course Caden said yes like it wasn't a big deal...so I said to go pick a small handful and show me...he goes out and picks green and red Birdseye peppers and comes in and pops them in his mouth and eats them...I said show me, open your mouth and his mouth was red pigmented from the peppers...of course I said no more peppers for you Caden...I couldn't wait for his mama to show up so I could tell her what we saw...

She shows up and I tell her what happened...she smiled and said they found out about him eating peppers when he was around 2 years old...he just reached from his baby chair and grabbed a jalapeņo pepper and started munching...so I asked her if there was an explanation...she said that when she got pregnant with caden she craved and ate many a jalapeņo and it was something she normally wouldn't eat otherwise...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Buffalo, NY
Posts: 2147

So, if people take their pregnant wives hunting, their kids will be better hunters? Lol

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Maryland
Posts: 2633

quote:

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Originally posted by Richard Lambert
If you take a pregnant female to a comp hunt and she wins will that make the pups winners?

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: North MO
Posts: 2347

Good grief........

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Registered: Jun 2006
Location: Platteville, Wi
Posts: 5676

quote:

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Originally posted by joey
You are right about once in a life time hounds, but I don't think it makes the pups more inclined to tree coon because the mother did while carrying them. What I do believe is that hunting the female while bred keeps her in better shape and that translates into healthier pups. Also a female being hunted while she is pregnant is probably a decent female. Or else they would breed her and lay her up. So she shows to have the genetics to through descent pups.

The truth is most pups are not given a chance, at least not the right one. They are only a handful of guys that can take a pup that is not an early starting natural and make it something nice. The only way to prove what kind of job we do breeding is through the end results. That comes about through exposure and training. That's the part 90% of us fail at.

Have you ever seen a guy that raises a really nice hound and tries to train every one after that the same way he did that one? Only to never get another one? He doesn't realize that the one he had before made a dog in spite of all of his "training" instead of because of it. He blames it all on the breeder or stud but never looks in the mirror. Then there are guys that always have a nice one. They have realized that they are all different and have to be approached that way.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: gnadenhutten oh
Posts: 1436

A lot comes down to training! Genes are there in most of todays hounds! Some start slower some start fast! I understand and in same boat a lot of us dont have time to put into the slower starting dogs but sometimes they turn out to be the Best sometime not! I think they all learn in different way like kids saying that I'm not comparing the two! But what works for one to make your once in a lifetime hound might not work for the net 10. And I'm going threw this now for I just had to put my once in a lifetime dog to sleep! I have 2 young dogs out of her a female and a male. The male started tree first night out the female has just started to tree 9 months after male do I like that no but after trying different things and about to give up I remembered a old trick a older friend showed me and did it and now she trees better than the male( sometimes).So to me its in there its just up to us to figure out the key thing to get it! Not saying there is no duds I know better! But what I have found is that most times you can get a dog to tree coon maybe not the best or comp
Good enough but u can get something out of them!

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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1907

Years ago I went to see a man about something I do not remember about what. What I do remember is that he had a dog in his back yard that looked like one bad to the bone pitbull with a lab type head...I asked him what breed and he said half lab and half English bulldog...he also said she raised ten pups and all looked mostly like lab types except this one...

This was puzzling to me and my final hypothesis that made since me...The English bulldog gene pool deviates so much away from normal that it can not reproduce itself consistently when bred outside the English bulldog breed. We all know that the dog can barely breathe and needs ac to survive the summer heat and most always the females deliver by C-section...it seems to me that quite a bit of the English bulldog exaggerated traits must be recessives...
It seems to me that some of that theory applies to the once in a lifetime dog...we can use one of the greatest racehorses of all time...he never reproduced himself...

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Training dogs is not so much about quantity, it's more about timing, and the right situations...After that it's up to the dog....A hunting dog is born...

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Round and Round we go where we stop nobody knows?
I bet that race horse was bred to brood mares? LOL

On a serious note: I made a half brother/half sister cross with my Liza jane female being the common ancestor, she is the granddam on both sides and out of that we have a 2 yr old male that is the spitting image of his grandam in actions and intelligence, pretty cool !

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Registered: Oct 2004
Location: Paragon IN
Posts: 1099

I'd be worried that pregnant female would catch and eat a possum, then the pups would never be able to be broke off possum!

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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

Why would you want to break a dog off possums good possum dogs are making the finals of major hunts every year lol. I want them to tree one a cast and just before you get there leave and let everything else get scratched lol. Teach them to strike them on the babble on me lol.

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Registered: Jan 2004
Location: Northwest Georgia
Posts: 1621

Surveyor that was pretty Good!

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Registered: Aug 2012
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quote:

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Originally posted by yadkintar
Why would you want to break a dog off possums good possum dogs are making the finals of major hunts every year lol. I want them to tree one a cast and just before you get there leave and let everything else get scratched lol. Teach them to strike them on the babble on me lol.

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