Registered: Jul 2003
Location: Columbus, Ks
Posts: 5398

With 8 minutes left in the hunt you begin time to shine a tree. It takes 30 seconds to clearly see the raccoon had left before the hounds arrived at the tree. Judge is winning the cast and says he's using all the time to run the hunt time. What can be done to stop time?

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Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Parts Unknown
Posts: 7056

Does the judges dog hold 1st tree?

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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Roseboro, N.C.
Posts: 3334

You can't stop him, every handler has the option of using as much shining time as they want up to 8 minutes.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

Say the cast is using a NON HUNTING judge and say after 5m is up it is plain to see the tree and nothing could be in it , judge says tree is closed BUT I still have 3m shining time left and there are 5m left in the hunt who has the say so. meaning if judge closes tree then we have 8 m instead of 2m left to hunt. NA he don't have a dog in this one and don't even know any of the guys hunting in fact he is from another zip code.

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Registered: Aug 2007
Location: Ontario, Canada
Posts: 439

Was on a cast once where one dog treed on a hydro pole. Handler wanted the whole shine time. We voted slick after a minute. He questioned it and MOH supported us. Don't know if that was right by the rules but it was the right thing to do.

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

The judge has 8 minutes to attempt to find a coon or a place of refuge. The rules say that 8 minutes can be used to score a tree. That is a fact of life. A handler is not "using up hunting time" unless he goes over that 8 minutes.

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Registered: May 2016
Location: Palatka, FL
Posts: 5106

I think the logical thing (logical in a coonhunt LOL) if the tree is obviously slick. For the judge to say after one minute three minutes or anytime till once he makes that judgement is. " I am going to minus this tree if someone don't show me a place of refuge or the coon. If everyone is satisfied then we can move on now". Anyone that has a dog treed there has their complete time to shine the tree if they so choose.

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Registered: Dec 2004
Location: Bearden AR
Posts: 1735

I saw a hunting judge tell a guy that he better find a hole in the tree because he’s going to minus the tree. But instead the handler found the coon. To many make to quick of a decision

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Registered: May 2004
Location: Sullivan IL.
Posts: 3060

Delaying the cast ?

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

Yes or No does the non hunting judge have the ultimate sayso in this. disregard the right to ?

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

UKC has the ultimate say so. They said 8 minutes.

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Registered: Feb 2005
Location:
Posts: 1739

I'm going to say "yes" ....1st dog treed, that handler controls the 1st. 2 min. of shine time....then it's open to the rest of the cast to score it ... BUT u do have the option to ? the non-hunting judge.... But most know where that will get u ...

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

The rule says 8 min. BUT there comes a point when everyone knows how the score is going to go. At that point who ever is continuing the shine time is delaying the cast. Its not as black and white as it sounds and is not something you can really give an opinion on without being there.

A big tree thats hard to shine and has places of refuge obviously could take the whole 8. Someone using 8 to shine a telephone pole is not the same situation. The hunting judge can not tell you to find a hole or he is going to minus anything. He is just one vote when it comes to a tree but I have heard several try it.

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Last edited by joey on 05-25-2018 at 04:02 PM

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Registered: Sep 2010
Location: New Paris, Indiana
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Those words "delaying the cast" should only be used in reference to a timeout situation . In terms of UKC rules, that is the only time you can delay the cast. Allen has made that clear multiple times on here and in the Advisor.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

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Originally posted by JiM
Those words "delaying the cast" should only be used in reference to a timeout situation . In terms of UKC rules, that is the only time you can delay the cast. Allen has made that clear multiple times on here and in the Advisor.

---

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

WHERE did the word hunting judge come in to play? the question I asked said: NON HUNTING JUDGE AND NOT EVEN IN THE SAME ZIP CODE AS CAST MEMBERS. DANG that is how things get screwed up youy answer was not even in the ball park of the question.BIG TREE FIND A HOLE LIMBS COULD TOUCH is not in the question. Come on bud don't cloud the question.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

Do u have a opinion or even better answer?

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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22462

Mr Meyer, actually you "clouded the original question" by adding non-hunting judge to the question. And several people answered your question. The rule says you have 8 minutes to shine a tree.

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

quote:

---

Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
WHERE did the word hunting judge come in to play? the question I asked said: NON HUNTING JUDGE AND NOT EVEN IN THE SAME ZIP CODE AS CAST MEMBERS. DANG that is how things get screwed up youy answer was not even in the ball park of the question.BIG TREE FIND A HOLE LIMBS COULD TOUCH is not in the question. Come on bud don't cloud the question.

---

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Registered: Jun 2012
Location: McRae Ar
Posts: 3701

Look at it like this.

If the coon is found you don't get to keep shinning.
If it obviously slick the cast or non hunting judge can score it.
If there is any question that a coon could possibly be there you get 8 min.

The grey area comes in as to what is obviously slick?

Thats with a non hunting or hunting Judge.

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

I asked a total different question .

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Registered: Sep 2003
Location: Fayetteville.Ga
Posts: 2167

OBLIVIOUS SLICK i wont to keep shining cause I GET 8 MINUTES and have only used 3 minutes YOU as the NON HUNTING JUDGE said tree is closed lets move on MY QUESTION IS ONLY THIS CAN HE MAKE THAT DECISION

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quote:

---

Originally posted by H. L. Meyer
OBLIVIOUS SLICK i wont to keep shining cause I GET 8 MINUTES and have only used 3 minutes YOU as the NON HUNTING JUDGE said tree is closed lets move on MY QUESTION IS ONLY THIS CAN HE MAKE THAT DECISION

---

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Registered: Jul 2004
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 2765

quote:

---

Originally posted by joey
Look at it like this.

If the coon is found you don't get to keep shinning.
If it obviously slick the cast or non hunting judge can score it.
If there is any question that a coon could possibly be there you get 8 min.

The grey area comes in as to what is obviously slick?

Thats with a non hunting or hunting Judge.

---

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Registered: Mar 2004
Location: CT
Posts: 1010

July Advisor
Allen Gingerich

Demanding Ten Minutes of Shining Time
Q: Even though it seems like a no-brainer, this question pops up every now and again. Can a handler demand that the whole ten minutes be used when scoring trees even though a coon was seen in the tree by a majority of the cast during the first five minutes of shining time or anytime before the ten is up?

A: The notion that additional shining time may be demanded after a coon has been seen is unreasonable. Yes, the rule states that ten minutes may be demanded. Demanded for what? Rule 8(f) If dog(s) declared treed, 10 minutes of hunting time may be demanded to search tree, or place of refuge, which is not a time out. No plus points will be awarded if coon is seen after 10 minutes shining time has elapsed. The rule states it may be demanded to search tree. Key word here is search. Once the majority of the cast has seen the coon, the search is over and no additional shining time may be demanded to be used by any handler at that particular tree.

Any cast member may demand all the time be used so long as a coon has not been seen, however, it would be unsportsmanlike to demand that the whole ten minutes be used on an obvious little slick tree for the sake of burning up hunt time or otherwise. In the event the handler is requiring additional shining time to check the same tree for off- game, they should be reminded that even if off-game is found it would be irrelevant and it would not change the scoring of the tree when a coon has already been seen.

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