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Does Jack have to hold his tree for five minutes before he may be handled?
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Yes. 37 20.67%
No. 142 79.33%
Total: 179 votes 100%
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Allen / UKC
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Must Hold Tree for Five Minutes - Yes or No

Here's one that I see being handled wrong too often. I'm not sure why as the rules are fairly straight forward on it.

Here's the scenario:
Dog's A, B, and C are declared treed. Just as the cast is arriving at their tree; Dog D (Jack) is declared treed behind them a short distance on a separate tree. Does Jack have to hold his separate tree for five minutes before he may be handled? Yes or no?

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Richard Lambert
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That one is too easy.
You should add A, B and C are treed. Two minutes are gone and D is treed by his handler a short distance to the right. Dog A immediately leaves and goes to D. Since the 5 min is not up, can Dog A be treed in on Dog D's tree?

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 05-21-2018 at 05:01 PM

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JiM
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11(a). Now, no one should miss this one.

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joey
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
That one is too easy.
You should add A, B and C are treed. Two minutes are gone and D is treed by his handler a short distance to the right. Dog A immediately leaves and goes to D. Can Dog A be treed in on Dog D's tree?



Nope sure cant.

I got one that a lot of people will miss but I dont want to through Allen's poll off.

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Surveyor
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I was doing MOH gig one night at an RQE and actually had a guy come back stomping mad, telling me I needed to do a better job picking judges that knew the rules because the guy I assigned to judge his cast "thinks he can just go to his dog split treed without waiting the 5 just because all the other dogs on the cast are declared treed on a different tree"!

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Allen / UKC
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94 views but only 9 brave enough to vote? lol. Must be waiting to see how the majority votes?

Let me tell a little story about "being influenced by the majority".

A good number of years ago we did a fun little rules Q&A at an event. We were under a tent that had support poles down the middle. If you answered yes, the contestants were to stand on one side of the tent. If your answer was no, you were to stand on the opposite side. This was to be a process of elimination to get a winner. I don't remember what the first question was but I'm pretty sure we wouldn't have started with a tough one.

Anywho...... after the first question was given some went to one side or the other, followed by everyone looking at each other and a little moving back and forth. After everyone had made up their mind and was where they wanted to be, we had about 100 on one side of the tent and only ONE on the opposite side. Yes, one.

Unfortunately, the winner was determined after only one question! This was a youth event so maybe another example of how easily they can be influenced.

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JDunn6008
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Correct me if I’m wrong , but doesn’t this question depend on when Dog D was treed if he was treed assuming all dogs together then five apples to all, but if he was treed after arriving or treed when it was evident there was a split he has to hold his own five correct guys ?

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yadkintar
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Well when Jim gave us the answer no need to vote I started keeping a score card by my chair just call it an open book test that way lol.



Tar

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Richard Lambert
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That majority rules or going with the crowd gets thrown out the window when on a cast. There is always one guy who wants to disagree. And sometimes he is right.

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yadkintar
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To get the full effect Allen needs to do like they do us on here ask a question about 10 of us answer then the rest of the story comes out I hate that lol !!


Tar

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Donnie Stevens
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quote:
Originally posted by JDunn6008
Correct me if I’m wrong , but doesn’t this question depend on when Dog D was treed if he was treed assuming all dogs together then five apples to all, but if he was treed after arriving or treed when it was evident there was a split he has to hold his own five correct guys ?


No. If all dogs are declared treed it doesn't matter where or when.

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JiM
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Well when Jim gave us the answer no need to vote I started keeping a score card by my chair just call it an open book test that way lol.



Tar


I didn't think I gave the answer. I just showed where to find the answer.

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yadkintar
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My bad Jim lol. I guess I cheated lol.


Tar

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sunkist
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Dog staying treed for 5 minuets

So if you have a 4 dog cast and 3 out of the 4 either minus out, or scratched, just leaving 1 dog in the cast. Does the 1 dog have to stay treed for 5 minuets since he is the only dog left in the cast ? I’ll add this, in a 3-4 dog cast if all are declared treed within 10 seconds of one another, you walk straight to them right ? So I’ve been told if your down to 1 dog he must hold tree for 5 minuets, I don’t get it if that’s the case. Allen what is your answer on the his ?

Thanks

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4play
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Re: Dog staying treed for 5 minuets

quote:
Originally posted by sunkist
So if you have a 4 dog cast and 3 out of the 4 either minus out, or scratched, just leaving 1 dog in the cast. Does the 1 dog have to stay treed for 5 minuets since he is the only dog left in the cast ? I’ll add this, in a 3-4 dog cast if all are declared treed within 10 seconds of one another, you walk straight to them right ? So I’ve been told if your down to 1 dog he must hold tree for 5 minuets, I don’t get it if that’s the case. Allen what is your answer on the his ?

Thanks



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CHEWBACH
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
That one is too easy.
You should add A, B and C are treed. Two minutes are gone and D is treed by his handler a short distance to the right. Dog A immediately leaves and goes to D. Since the 5 min is not up, can Dog A be treed in on Dog D's tree?

Richard all dogs are treed so all trees are closed !!so what does the rule say about treeing on a closed tree !!

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Allen / UKC
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Re: Dog staying treed for 5 minuets

quote:
Originally posted by sunkist
So if you have a 4 dog cast and 3 out of the 4 either minus out, or scratched, just leaving 1 dog in the cast. Does the 1 dog have to stay treed for 5 minuets since he is the only dog left in the cast ? I’ll add this, in a 3-4 dog cast if all are declared treed within 10 seconds of one another, you walk straight to them right ? So I’ve been told if your down to 1 dog he must hold tree for 5 minuets, I don’t get it if that’s the case. Allen what is your answer on the his ?

Thanks



This is not the same as the question being asked. Let's go with the specific scenario used and then maybe I can use yours for another time. Otherwise, we'll confuse too many.

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Old Post 05-21-2018 10:08 PM
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JiM
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Re: Dog staying treed for 5 minuets

quote:
Originally posted by sunkist
So if you have a 4 dog cast and 3 out of the 4 either minus out, or scratched, just leaving 1 dog in the cast. Does the 1 dog have to stay treed for 5 minuets since he is the only dog left in the cast ? I’ll add this, in a 3-4 dog cast if all are declared treed within 10 seconds of one another, you walk straight to them right ? So I’ve been told if your down to 1 dog he must hold tree for 5 minuets, I don’t get it if that’s the case. Allen what is your answer on the his ?

Thanks


Again, just read 11(a) and you'll have your answer.

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Richard Lambert
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Mr Gingerich, are you saying that we are easily confused?

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lmbo

so if Richard would get a hair cut and a shave !! would he be a better sportsman !! naa!! lol

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I'm waiting for Allen to add when these same dogs are called treed with 4 minutes left in the hunt LOL.

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If dog D was treed before shine time was started the handler can be permitted to go handle the hound immediately.

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Allen / UKC
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Gingerich, are you saying that we are easily confused?


We? Some. Not everyone.

The scenario and question is very specific. Unfortunately, when slightly different scenarios are posted and discussed, it tends to confuse "some".

The question has nothing to do with time running out in the hunt or handling the dog. Simply; is the dog required to hold its tree for five minutes or not? Just messin' with y'all. lol.

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Richard Lambert
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I don't care what the rule says. I think that a dog should have to stay treed for 10 minutes. So when I judge, I make everyone wait 10 minutes.
I just love those kind of responses.

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Old Post 05-22-2018 02:35 PM
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Allen / UKC
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Okay, we'll run this one short this week. 80% got this one right.

As Jim mentioned, Rule 11(a) provides the correct answer. {Dog must hold tree for five minutes, unless all dogs in cast are declared treed, on leash, or hunting time has expired.}

In my scenario Dog D (Jack) fell treed and was declared treed on a separate tree, as the cast arrived to the tree occupied by A, B and C. Does Jack have to hold his tree for five minutes?

No he does not. This would be consistent with Rule 11(a) where it says they must only hold the tree for five minutes "unless all dog are treed". When Jack was declared treed, all dogs in the cast were now declared. Therefore, Jack is not required to hold his tree for five minutes and he is eligible to be handled.

It doesn't matter if dogs are on split trees or not; when all dogs are declared treed, there is no more five minute clock for any one of them. The same would be true if all others are on leash and not yet turned loose, or if hunt time expires.



The only time Jack would not be eligible to be handled is if he would have been declared (called by the handler) treed while the cast was in the process of shining a tree. Even then, the five minute clock is off. Instead Rule 11(c) applies where it says; {Judge shall give handler permission to handle dog on split tree unless cast is in the process of shining a tree.} In my scenario with Jack, the cast had not yet started shining the tree, therefore, the judge should have allowed Jack to be handled immediately and then his handler should return to help shine/score the first tree.

Actually, in this case where all dogs are declared treed, the cast could have chosen to score the two trees in the most convenient order, per Rule 11(c) {If all dogs are declared treed and handled, cast may score dogs in most convenient order.}

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