Registered: Aug 2011
Location: Perrinton, Michigan
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Ok I looked on back of card and looked in my reg book, Had a complaint form filed last night after hunt. We had 8 dogs at hunt 3 reg, 5 night champions. This complaint is as follows , the 2 dog cast should have a Non Hunting Judge (in other words mandatory) I was the MOH and I looked on card and in rules book and do not see anything that says mandatory or anything other than if one dog left must return to club for non hunting judge. If it is so where at in reg book does it say.

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Thats all there is. The only time a non-hunting judge is required is on a one dog cast.

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thanks Jim I was sure too , but the cast winner on the 3 dog cast filed the complaint (nicely) and ussually would wait for answer from UKC however a 17 year old kid won the 2 dog cast (other handler the Judge) and he was overall winner making it his 4th cast win,, kid has only been comp hunting less than a year and this is his first dog Wanted to let him sleep easier. Thanks again

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Tony Beals
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I think that is a new policy from a different kc. Had a moh rip into a judge/guide for allowing the cast to continue after getting down to 2 dogs, in a UKC hunt several months ago.

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I have been to numerous small clubs with quit a few times with a 2 dog cast and never had them assign a non hunting judge and yes as MOH I should know by the book if that was the case but I had never read any of that before. There were no problems on either cast and the young kids cast it was the judge who withdrew, but stayed the judge for the kid. This kid is a friend of mines son and he comp hunts beagles (4 years) and this is his first full year of comp coon hunting and his first dog who he is about to make Grand Night. Kid is as honest as they come and the right kid for our sport. Was hoping to get right answer and give him some piece of mind.

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Tony Beals
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If it stands the guy just waisted a good $20.00 bill

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Tony Beals
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You are right but how did the panel rule? Isn't the proper procedure to ask for a panel if you don't like the MOH's ruling? And then if you don't like the panel's ruling, you appeal the decision to UKC. Did he file a complaint against you or appeal your decision?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by tony.beals
Ok I looked on back of card and looked in my reg book, Had a complaint form filed last night after hunt. We had 8 dogs at hunt 3 reg, 5 night champions. This complaint is as follows , the 2 dog cast should have a Non Hunting Judge (in other words mandatory) I was the MOH and I looked on card and in rules book and do not see anything that says mandatory or anything other than if one dog left must return to club for non hunting judge. If it is so where at in reg book does it say.

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
You are right but how did the panel rule? Isn't the proper procedure to ask for a panel if you don't like the MOH's ruling? And then if you don't like the panel's ruling, you appeal the decision to UKC. Did he file a complaint against you or appeal your decision?

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It was MOH format, so I guess you would say it was against me, we talked some last night at the hunt and it's not like he is jumping up and down Mad, he isn't, I guess he just wants to give UKC $20.00 to find out I was right and he was wrong

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According to the rulebook, under a MOH, the procedure is cast vote, then question on card. Then if unsatisfied with the MOH decision, a $10 appeal is paid to bring the question to a panel. Panels are not just for the HD format. If unsatisfied with the panels decision, a further appeal can be made to UKC for an additional $20. So you left out the panel question that comes between MOH ruling and $20 appeal to UKC.
But regardless, a non-hunting judge is not required for a two dog cast.

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Registered: Aug 2011
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Thanks everyone, yes did leave out the panel vote, the complaint/question was after all cast were in. He was not on the two dog cast and no other cast members questioned it. Last night he hunted registered and we had another two dog cast on Night Champion, for which I was one of two, he did not even question it last night. Bottom line he was trying to get the night before's cast thrown out so he would be the NT CH winner. (in my opinion)

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Tony Beals
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You are most likely right, some folks want a win any way they can get it, to me a win by default is unacceptable, I don't want to win that way. Dave

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I would have not accepted the question

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When the new format kicks in, this will be a moot point. All cast wins will count.

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quote:

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Originally posted by H DOG
I would have not accepted the question

---

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I would not have accepted the question to begin with because there is no question you do not have to have a non hunting judge for two dogs

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Registered: Aug 2011
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Well I guess I would except any question, no matter how ridiculous it is, it is their $10.00 or $20.00. The main point here or sad part is that a 17 year old kid had to worry that his fourth NT CH win was up for scrutiny.

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This wasn't a question on a card, it was a formal complaint. If I'm not mistaken panels and all of that are for hunt questions pertaining to a ruling on a cast. Not a MOH procedural question. Either way a 2 dog cast is fine.

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I don't think they have Formal Complaints anymore. Just Appeals and Misconduct Complaints.

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Now there is a dilemma. Can a handler in one cast question something that happened in another cast? Or how would a handler in one cast go about questioning a MOH's decision that pertained to another cast? Say a MOH made a ruling that gave the winner of cast A the win with 100 more points and placed it above the winner of Cast B. Can the winner of Cast B request a Panel and/or Appeal?
Can you file a Formal Complain against a MOH if you don't like his ruling on a question? I mean, it isn't really "misconduct". Or is it? And if you did, would UKC change his original ruling?

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quote:

---

Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Now there is a dilemma. Can a handler in one cast question something that happened in another cast? Or how would a handler in one cast go about questioning a MOH's decision that pertained to another cast? Say a MOH made a ruling that gave the winner of cast A the win with 100 more points and placed it above the winner of Cast B. Can the winner of Cast B request a Panel and/or Appeal?
Can you file a Formal Complain against a MOH if you don't like his ruling on a question? I mean, it isn't really "misconduct". Or is it? And if you did, would UKC change his original ruling?

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Richard I feel a Head Ache coming on LMAO but good point.

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Tony Beals
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Kinda like opening a can and a bunch of worms come crawling out.

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Registered: Aug 2011
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In some cases more like snakes

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Tony Beals
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