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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Honest Strike Dog

Is a fourth strike dog an "honest strike dog"? Or is he opening after he has smelled a track for a minute or two? It seems to me that the first strike dog that opens as soon as he gets a slight whiff of a track would be more of an "honest strike dog". I don't understand why people who have a 4th strike dog always call them an "honest strike dog" when they know that they have actually been trailing for a while before they open.
A dog that opens when no track is there is "dishonest" but isn't a dog that doesn't open when a track is there "dishonest" also?

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Old Post 10-09-2018 03:25 PM
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Blaze2014
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This should be interesting, because any answer is pure speculation.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 03:43 PM
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Dogwhisper
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Registered: Feb 2005
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Some dogs are just smarter than others.
They'll open when they got it figured/lined out.
That in it self doesn't make them dishonest.
IMO makes them intelligent.
As opposed to the dog that opens as soon as it detects scent but babbles trying to figure out which way it should go. (Airheads).jmo

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Cory Highfill
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Registered: Oct 2004
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Determining when a dog starts to smell a track in relation to when it opens its mouth is impossible and as such is speculation. Determining when there is no track present to smell is (should be) much easier.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 03:58 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Also, why do so many people complain about babblers but no one complains about silent track dogs. A whole lot of handlers want to even change the rules to benefit the silent track dog. A lot of handlers say that they can't stand a babbler but they like a silent track dog. I don't understand that. They even made a rule to minus babblers and most judges use it. But I have never in my 30 yrs of comp hunting seen a dog scratched for being silent on track. Why doesn't anyone propose a rule that says a dog has to open at least 10 times on track before they can be treed?

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Old Post 10-09-2018 04:01 PM
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BLAKE WHEELER
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Registered: Jan 2008
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So if a dog doesn't open at least 10 times you consider him silent?

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Old Post 10-09-2018 04:05 PM
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Richard Lambert
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A whole lot of dishonest people are very intelligent. And with the advent of Garmins, everyone should know when their dog starts trailing whether they open or not. I can tell you when my dog is about to open.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 04:06 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

quote:
Originally posted by BLAKE WHEELER
So if a dog doesn't open at least 10 times you consider him silent?

I consider him a lying track dog. It is a lie of "omission". He is a dishonest track dog.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 04:11 PM
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BLAKE WHEELER
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He may be lying on track but he's pretty honest on the tree lol

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Old Post 10-09-2018 04:15 PM
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shane_atchison
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Registered: May 2007
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
They even made a rule to minus babblers and most judges use it. But I have never in my 30 yrs of comp hunting seen a dog scratched for being silent on track.
Most judges use it?? I assume your joking or thats sarcasm.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 04:21 PM
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joey
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Doesn't have anything to do with when the dog strikes its just a term to describe a dog that isn't babbling. That's the only reason to use it. Honest vs "babbling" not honest. Truth be told just because he is last doesn't make him honest. Just slow.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 04:38 PM
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Adams, Harold
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Registered: Sep 2004
Location: ohio
Posts: 772

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
A whole lot of dishonest people are very intelligent. And with the advent of Garmins, everyone should know when their dog starts trailing whether they open or not. I can tell you when my dog is about to open.


From most of your statements I can tell you when yours is about to open too!! When you are reaching for the snap to unleash!! Strike Ol red!!!

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Old Post 10-09-2018 05:05 PM
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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Adams, Harold
From most of your statements I can tell you when yours is about to open too!! When you are reaching for the snap to unleash!! Strike Ol red!!!




Yep and I don't know why Sombody would want to try and convince me to like a babbling dog just because they do. Down here your not going to strike every coon right off the snap. But I bet I could take some of the dogs competing today to some spots where there has never ever been a coon and they would still get struck and maybe even treed up a big ole leafy tree !!!


Tar

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Old Post 10-09-2018 05:38 PM
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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
Posts: 5822

quote:
Originally posted by Cory Highfill
Determining when a dog starts to smell a track in relation to when it opens its mouth is impossible and as such is speculation. Determining when there is no track present to smell is (should be) much easier.

Good answer!
Richard, why the concern over "honest strike dog" that is taking 25? The in for 100 type everytime just started with a 75 pt advantage on it every drop. The continuously silent dog there are rules in place for whether used often or not it's there. The need for some kind of a tree countdown has arose from a need to weed out the super slow or just flat out me-too barking dogs that can't or don't tree there own coon during hunt time.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 05:42 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

Is a dog that gets second or third tree a "me too" dog or one that is slower on track and gets beat to a tree. Or maybe they are just slower to tree because they like to check and make sure the coon is there. Why does everyone automatically assume that a second or third tree dog can't tree a coon by themselves? Everyone wants to "weed out" the slow second and third tree dogs. But they go out looking for those slow second or third tree dogs when they sneak off by themselves and don't open on track so that you don't know how slow they are. Is it because these are "cast winners"?

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Old Post 10-09-2018 06:33 PM
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yadkintar
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Where you hunting with these silent dogs ? I ain't hunted with one in 25 yrs and sure ain't hunted with one in the last 10 yrs I would like to draw a whole cast of silent dogs myself. All that barking makes me want to drink cheap whiskey! And I don't drink !!



Tarbaby

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Old Post 10-09-2018 06:44 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

quote:
Originally posted by Adams, Harold
From most of your statements I can tell you when yours is about to open too.

Mr Adams, I have honest strike dogs. They open as soon as they smell a track, not before and not later on when they get it "lined out". And Tarbaby, I don't like babbling dogs and I don't like silent dogs. I like honest first strike dogs. But it wouldn't bother me if you liked babbling or silent dogs. I just don't think that people should call late strike dogs "honest". They are inferring that first strike dogs are lying.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 06:45 PM
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yadkintar
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Richard me and you have hunted in enough $$$ hunts to know that that striking under the minute with the majority of the cast barking off the snap is dishonest and used for an advantage unless you have a non hunting judge you are S.O.L. !! I like an open trailing dog with enough track speed to dominate slower dogs myself.



Tar

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Old Post 10-09-2018 06:59 PM
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Redneck Mafia
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Registered: Aug 2013
Location: Seneca, Mo
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Is a dog that gets second or third tree a "me too" dog or one that is slower on track and gets beat to a tree. Or maybe they are just slower to tree because they like to check and make sure the coon is there. Why does everyone automatically assume that a second or third tree dog can't tree a coon by themselves? Everyone wants to "weed out" the slow second and third tree dogs. But they go out looking for those slow second or third tree dogs when they sneak off by themselves and don't open on track so that you don't know how slow they are. Is it because these are "cast winners"?

They are either me-too dogs or dogs that are missing a gear if it takes them 2-5 minutes longer than others to get treed on the same track and tree. Definitely not that much slower because they are checking the tree to make sure the coon is there. Maybe they can tree a coon by themselves maybe not if they are never first only the owner knows for sure.
Slow track dogs that don't open and just split tree rarely win casts. And this house has never recieved a call looking for such a dog. People call daily looking for about everything under the sun of all colors and kinds.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 07:12 PM
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RJ Burks
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Registered: Nov 2017
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quote:
Originally posted by Dogwhisper
Some dogs are just smarter than others.
They'll open when they got it figured/lined out.
That in it self doesn't make them dishonest.
IMO makes them intelligent.
As opposed to the dog that opens as soon as it detects scent but babbles trying to figure out which way it should go. (Airheads).jmo



X2

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Old Post 10-09-2018 07:16 PM
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Toad Hill
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Where you hunting with these silent dogs ? I ain't hunted with one in 25 yrs and sure ain't hunted with one in the last 10 yrs I would like to draw a whole cast of silent dogs myself. All that barking makes me want to drink cheap whiskey! And I don't drink !!



Tarbaby




LOL !!!!! You are surely kiddin....? about the silent dogs....

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Old Post 10-09-2018 07:30 PM
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Adams, Harold
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Registered: Sep 2004
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quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Adams, I have honest strike dogs. They open as soon as they smell a track, not before and not later on when they get it "lined out".


OK if you say so......

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Old Post 10-09-2018 07:53 PM
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shadinc
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Registered: Jun 2014
Location: Louisiana
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Two weeks ago I was in a two dog cast. The other dog(an 8-year-old nite champion) struck off the leash. After about 5 minutes of him "trailing" alone, the handler asked me if my dog was silent. I told him no. Then he said she must not have a very good nose. About 3 minutes later his dog sounded different. My first thought was that he just struck a track. Twenty seconds later mine opened, they ran about 200 yds and treed. Do you think anybody could convince this man that his dog wasn't an honest strike dog? Most people that hunt babblers don't think they are babbling.

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Old Post 10-09-2018 08:27 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Registered: Aug 2004
Location: Chattanooga, Tn
Posts: 22460

A lot of people don't know what their dog is doing at any time. But I think that "most" people know when their dog is babbling. But that doesn't mean that they will admit it during a hunt. It is just like when they tree their dog and he shuts up and moves 10 yrds deeper and starts treeing again. Now can they not tell he moved or will they just not admit that he moved?
How about when you unsnap the dogs and one leaves barking and never shuts up. Now for the first minute his handler knows that he is babbling and doesn't strike him. But as soon as the minute is up he strikes him and swears that he isn't babbling.

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 10-09-2018 at 08:43 PM

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Old Post 10-09-2018 08:37 PM
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yadkintar
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True story: we had a notorious babbler down here nobody liked to draw him the guy absolutely would not take minuse your dog barked up instantly he was covered one night I was the judge dog left babbling soon as the second the minute was up he was going to strike him and I knew it minutes up and on cue dog humps up taking a dookie still barking I made him strike him and I minused him he got mad and withdrew never hunted him again because he knew we told everybody lol.




Tar

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