Registered: Apr 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 201

NO!! He falls in the few category.

Back to topic.....

I still believe credit should not be given...rules commitee seems to think the "poke rabbit" counts...so it counts.

Good running to all!!

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Jim Hall
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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: MARYLAND knoxville
Posts: 478

Yes it was 2 judges and one was also a rep. Thanks.

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Registered: Apr 2007
Location: Beckley, WV
Posts: 675

So im curious to know now what is the "few" category?? Every dog that's ever obtained a title in UKC not worthy?? Ive run with some pretty **** good hounds all over in UKC that were very much worthy of every point they received. So what dogs do belong in the few category????? Little off subject I know but im curious

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Registered: May 2009
Location: Irvine, Ky
Posts: 115

I agree credit should be given where credit is due. However, if one rule that may/may not be awarded to the deserving dog makes a dog a paper champ then there are paper champs in every single registry.

How many dogs have been awarded wins in ARHA for hunt/handle? How many dogs that finished in AKC didnt have enough hunt to suit most but still finished?

My point is although I certainly do not agree with giving dogs more than they earned UKC is not the only place that the rules allow a dog to get more than it earned in certain scenarios. Does this make the majority of dogs in UKC paper champs? I think not. If it does there are alot of "paper champs" in other registrys as well.

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 201

People get uneasy when they are pushed to think. and offended when they may be included in the masses...I agree....lots of paper champs in them all, ARHA handling rule is a complete joke....I have stated that on other "boards" as well.

On with the original post......I will probably not be on here much longer......LOL.

All welcome to run anytime! I promise my offensiveness is offset by the fact that IF you do have a quality dog and I see it, I would be the first to give you credit for it....I am not kennel blind, BUT surely style blind...

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Jim Hall
Buffalo Creek Kennels

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Registered: Apr 2011
Location: WV
Posts: 201

And for the identification of the "few".....I will gladly discuss my philosophies and reveal opinions via the phone.

I have been warned enough about my attitude and I should be more respectful.

Thanks and good running to all!

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Jim Hall
Buffalo Creek Kennels

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 70

Jim,

I agree with you.

I guess every dog that has done this in the UKC PP format are true jump dogs then huh?? Lol


I was up at a UKC PP hunt once, my dog opened up and was put on the clock, for the next 4 minutes, he trotted back and forth trying to line out the track, he went into a big briar patch and before he reached the end of it, he was given the minus, right at that moment this big rabbit came busting out right in front of two dogs, but since the minus was given and we had to handle the dogs, nothing could have been done. We released the dogs on that same rabbit and went by first check. I agree my dog shouldn't have gotten those points, he did not get it in time and I'm not disputing that. My dog knew it was there, he found it but was to late. A non produce was given to him because he did not "produce" it. Producing to me sounds like a dog opening up and finding their rabbit. They no it's there but has to find it before the clock runs out. In midvalleys's situation the dog had no clue it was there. I would have a hard time giving him a produced rabbit. Since the committee voted on this rule it should be enforced, like someone else said to keep the judging on a consistent track.

I'm sure anyone would agree here, that to take a loss in a field trial on that rule would be tough to swallow. I'm sure when the tables on turned you might not agree with it.

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Last edited by HOHBC on 08-26-2014 at 04:15 AM

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Registered: Aug 2014
Location: Mt Vernon, Ohio
Posts: 143

UKC is a great format. We love both the hound and hunter and performance pack. It seems like the rules should be tweeked by the committee, to benefit the real rabbit dogs. The dogs got to earn it.

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Registered: Nov 2004
Location: Fresno Ohio
Posts: 2212

OK, I sat on the rules committee and can atest that many of these concerns were brought up in a lengthy discussion about this rule. I too thought the hound should have to acknowledge (bark) to get credit. BUT in the end we voted and it is what it is. I as well as everyone else must except the rules as written and understand that we compete our hounds within the confines of the rules. Each registry has goods and bads and when we pay our money we expect to be judged within those rules.
As with any SPORT there is luck be it good or bad. If a football field would have been 99 yards long the Tennessee Titans would have won the 2000 Super Bowl. As someone said earlier they took a minus due to a non-produce after 4 minutes had expired only to have a rabbit pop out of the brush. This is just bad luck as if the rule had said 5 minutes they are looking like a champ. In the end we all need to keep it in perspective and understand that it is just a sport. Sometimes even the best hounds will make a mistake or feel the effects of bad luck. We as handlers need to keep it in perspective and understand that when a hound wins it represents the best hound that day within the rules of the registry we choose to run.
A wise man told me once that "a hounds hardest job is to live up to its owners ego"

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 72

Any trial that uses a Bingo machine envolves luck!

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Registered: Jul 2012
Location: Malta oh.
Posts: 48

I agree dave. but with that said I would be vocal to the cast that I didn't agree with the rule and say im sorry. no bark no points in my opion. im saying that about my dogs not anyone elses.

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Registered: Jul 2011
Location: OH, Cambridge
Posts: 500

If a dog cant aknowledge the fact that it just jumped a rabbit there is no need to reward the dog with strike points. . . COMMON SENSE tells you this. not sure what the rulebook says. I thought strike points were when a dog was considered struck. . . In my mind a dog should only be considered struck when it acknowledges the game trail and lets you know this by tonguing in pursuit of game !!!! anything otherwise is a joke

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Registered: Oct 2013
Location: Indiana
Posts: 70

quote:

---

Originally posted by Sundown Beagles
OK, I sat on the rules committee and can atest that many of these concerns were brought up in a lengthy discussion about this rule. I too thought the hound should have to acknowledge (bark) to get credit. BUT in the end we voted and it is what it is. I as well as everyone else must except the rules as written and understand that we compete our hounds within the confines of the rules. Each registry has goods and bads and when we pay our money we expect to be judged within those rules.
As with any SPORT there is luck be it good or bad. If a football field would have been 99 yards long the Tennessee Titans would have won the 2000 Super Bowl. As someone said earlier they took a minus due to a non-produce after 4 minutes had expired only to have a rabbit pop out of the brush. This is just bad luck as if the rule had said 5 minutes they are looking like a champ. In the end we all need to keep it in perspective and understand that it is just a sport. Sometimes even the best hounds will make a mistake or feel the effects of bad luck. We as handlers need to keep it in perspective and understand that when a hound wins it represents the best hound that day within the rules of the registry we choose to run.
A wise man told me once that "a hounds hardest job is to live up to its owners ego"

---

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: MARYLAND knoxville
Posts: 478

This got this kind of reply on here just wait till happens in a hunt lol lol. Agree disagree hate it love it don't matter it's a rule and rules were made to be followed. As a judge your pretty much stuck whether u agree or disagree. As a handler you have no say.

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Registered: Feb 2011
Location: Ohio
Posts: 44

Think about this situation to those who don't agree with producing the rabbit that your dog is hunting and another is standing around and not doing anything when yours jumps a rabbit out in front of it and it barks before yours that did all the work. I am a judge and run this format and can tell you I have only had this happen once and the dog had the rabbit right after I produced it and we were off.
There is no perfect format the rules are there to try cover the scoring scenarios as best as the rules commitees see fit and there will always be people that disagree a rule in every format. My best advice is to find the format that suits you and your dog or dogs the best.

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I'm torn about this rule but can tell you that I've been on the other end in HB and missed out on points I thought my hound deserved. UKC is not perfect nor is any other format. There are rules that don't always work out as intended every time, but that happens in every format. UKC PP is a great format that I feel as a whole promotes a true rabbit dog.

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Registered: Sep 2008
Location: MARYLAND knoxville
Posts: 478

Agree 100% Jeremy ,
They can crucify me now but I think it has a lot less what ifs and a lot less chance for a un worthy hound to get by
Just due to the fact that the handler doesn't matter.

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HERE AT MID VALLEY BEAGLES WE STRIVE FOR A DOG THAT CAN AND WILL COMPETE IN ANY CONDITION.
SPEED IS GREAT ACCURACY IS EVERYTHING!
HOME OF

GRPCH GRCH MID VALLEY BUNNY BUSTER
TWO FIRST IN HB ALSO. STATE RACE WINNER 2015 PP

GRPCH HBCH MID VALLEY HURRY UP SWEET PEA
2015 MARYLAND STATE PP CHAMPION 5TH IN WORLD 2018

MID VALLEY BUNNY BUSTERS DREAM

MID VALLEY CRACK HEAD NOLA

MID VALLEY & FRAZIERS PICKING BANJO

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Registered: Jan 2009
Location:
Posts: 72

quote:

---

Originally posted by RR Crossing
Think about this situation to those who don't agree with producing the rabbit that your dog is hunting and another is standing around and not doing anything when yours jumps a rabbit out in front of it and it barks before yours that did all the work. I am a judge and run this format and can tell you I have only had this happen once and the dog had the rabbit right after I produced it and we were off.
There is no perfect format the rules are there to try cover the scoring scenarios as best as the rules commitees see fit and there will always be people that disagree a rule in every format. My best advice is to find the format that suits you and your dog or dogs the best.

---

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Registered: May 2014
Location: Michigan
Posts: 22

If a dog forces a rabbit from its setup and was seen then it shouldn't matter if it knows it or not. Had the dog by passed the bush rabbit would have sat tight , no jump. Forces is the key and seen also critical.

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