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houndsound
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Registered: Dec 2003
Location: Sheridan, WY
Posts: 1139

^^^ HA! Perfect!

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Old Post 02-14-2020 04:03 PM
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5thgearwide
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location: VA
Posts: 128

Re: Conrad

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Your breeding would not change at all, nor would those that BREED for coon dogs. It's the ones that BREED to win under the current rules, notice I said WIN under the current rules. If you judge what you are breeding and hunting on the concept of "feeding" your family VS winning hunts the outcome would be far different. You can not feed your family with circle trees, but you can win hunts with circle trees. We have come to tolerate way too many trees with coons not seen, simple because it's better than minus, but the bottom line is no coons no pay. Hunt what you can "feed" your family with, not what you can win hunts with and see if the breeding does not change. I have seen way too many supposedly winners strike at the start of a cast and never tree or tree 2 to 4 circle trees, either of which is unacceptable. Ghost tracks, circle trees, maybe a hot pop up coon equals loser, but not in the hunts, it equal winner. It's time to separate field trials from coon treeing hunts, just as the beagle guys have done. Dave


I think it all boils down to an old quote “a handlers ego is a heavy burden for a hound to carry” Once again I’m just an outsider looking in but I feel like pride and money have altered the hunts. It seems to me as if the Comp hunts should be geared more towards a dog proving its worth, not the handler or owner trying to prove how much the dog is worth... think about it, there’s a difference. If everybody truly bred/hunted/culled to the best of their ability with a common goal, you would see more coons. I think too many people are worried about proving something to the masses rather than just let the dog do it. Probably going to offend some people with this post but not every dog makes it. Simple as that, just because you’ve spent a year of your life on pup A because it came from big winners B&C doesn’t mean it’s gonna make a coon dog, it’s competition worthy, or it should be chosen to reproduce. The competition hunts in my humble outsider opinion, should be for the cream of the crop to show its natural coon treeing ability, and its worth in bettering the breed with positive attributes. I don’t competition hunt so maybe I’m totally off on this post but that’s just how it appears from outside the window. “It’s a lot easier to see the faults in another mans dog” is something I constantly remind myself when I’m evaluating what I’m hunting, take a step back and look at the hound as a total package instead of focusing on one small thing they do well. I would rather hunt one that does everything from truck to tree slightly better than average, than have one that really excels in one department and is useless in the rest. Another point I’d like to make is wisdom comes from experience, not age. Would you rather take advice from a young full time mechanic, or the old guy that has been in the shop for 25 years but has never actually touched a wrench? I know this post is aimed more towards the younger generation, but where did they learn from? Or where did their lack of teaching come from? Just food for thought, at the end of the day you’re the one feeding the dog and if you feel it’s earned it’s feed, then that’s really all that matters.

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Old Post 02-14-2020 04:07 PM
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wart
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 416

Dogs

Mr Richards post stated some of the hunters he grew up with didn't know what a good dog was and some did I can tell by some of these posts some have never owned or hunted with a good one or are jealous or something if you think the creme of the crop are not hunted in major events you don't have a clue.Hunt with dogs like big country, redneck Shaq and some others and find out how good your dog is better yet hunt 10 nights in a row with them and see

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Old Post 02-14-2020 04:27 PM
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Reuben
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: Freeport,TX
Posts: 1903

Wart...I don’t think anyone is putting anyone down at all...just stating what some of us believe in what is going on...

A good hunting dog is good anywhere...I can hunt with a dog a few times and know if it is a good hunting dog...it doesn’t matter if it’s a coon dog, bear dog or hog dog.. a great hunting dog is great most anywhere...

When we talk about big country and shaq we are talking about exceptional dogs...

Let’s talk about all the junk out there and what it takes to make the breedings to produce more hunting dogs like big country and shaq...

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Old Post 02-14-2020 04:50 PM
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5thgearwide
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2017
Location: VA
Posts: 128

I’m not saying the cream of the crop aren’t at the hunts, I’ve never been to one so I don’t know I would hope they are. All I know is what I’ve read and what I’ve hunted with. I’ve hunted with a handful of dogs with some big titles and I saw no real difference in what I follow through the woods, and I do not consider mine cream of the crop by any means. I totally agree with you though, a wise man once told me “a sorry dog looks good in the eyes of someone that has never seen good” and I think there’s a lot of truth to that. If people would go see the cream of the crop like the Shaq dog and Big Country and use them as a measuring stick and try to reproduce and train their likeness.... where would hounds be then?

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Old Post 02-14-2020 05:06 PM
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Dan&Ann
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Registered: Feb 2015
Location: Jacksonville NC
Posts: 149

Competition

In the early 80's myself and other hunters around my county would race to see who could fill the deep freezer up first. The money we made was based STRICTLY on how many coons we treed. The dog paid for himself & feed with the hides. My first hound was sold to me for $700 and the man gave me the kill season to pay for him. I paid for ole Buck that season and put a down payment on a truck...I know some of yall remember those times!

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Old Post 02-14-2020 06:45 PM
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2ol2hunt
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Registered: Nov 2011
Location: north ala.
Posts: 902

For several years I bought Christmas for my family and paid for my hunting addiction all with hides!

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Old Post 02-14-2020 06:54 PM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 5612

Wart

Not a lot has really changed, you still have true coon hunters hunting true coon dogs and everything in between. I would almost bet that the majority if hunters have never had the privilege of hunting with a TOP COON DOG. It's just that there are not that many, never was and never will be. Hunting with s top coon dog spoils most coon hunters and they always use that as their measuring stick. I may not ALWAYS have a TOP COON DOG ( definitely dont) but I am always looking for one. Knowing that there are some Top COON DOGS out there somewhere keeps my hopes alive, that I just might get to own one more in my lifetime. Every time I hear of a specials dog some one has, I have just got to go see if it could be one that I am looking for, most turn up to be very average, some pretty good, but rarely do I find a TOP COON DOG, much less ONE that can be bought. I am getting old enough now, that the odds are getting smaller every year that I will find another TOP COON DOG, but it only take 1 and that keeps me interested. Dave

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Old Post 02-14-2020 07:41 PM
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wart
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Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 416

quote:
Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
For several years I bought Christmas for my family and paid for my hunting addiction all with hides!
BINGO we have another winner coonhunters put hides on the wall 30 years ago not anymore those hard hunters today are hunting in the competition hunts not putting hides on the wall because they aren't worth anything there's always been way more common junk and culls than good ones

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Old Post 02-14-2020 11:22 PM
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wart
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Registered: Jan 2006
Location:
Posts: 416

quote:
Originally posted by 2ol2hunt
For several years I bought Christmas for my family and paid for my hunting addiction all with hides!
BINGO we have another winner coonhunters put hides on the wall 30 years ago not anymore those hard hunters today are hunting in the competition hunts not putting hides on the wall because they aren't worth anything there's always been way more common junk and culls than good ones

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Old Post 02-14-2020 11:22 PM
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thomasg
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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
JMO
Nailor, and we all know his bloodline but never talked about because a few people point at a shiny object in the other direction, Nailor was Big, Loud, Good looking, Lazy, Slick treeing son of a gun, he even died under a slick tree, then comes Nocturnal Style, then comes Trackman an Superman an the rest is history Or what you guys been talking about. JMO.

nailors grand dam on the bottom side rockers banjo style babe goes back to johnsons banjo 23 times in her extended pedigree ,ole banjo was the first stud dog that I heard of that passed the dominate classy tree dogs traits to every dog he covered ,so he was line breed because it is human nature when you see something you like to go out and get as much of it as you can ,it wasn't long till folks with all the heavy banjo blood were looking up empty trees , the 70 % dogs were accepted and even coveted because they sounded good were classy bug eyed slobber slinging buggers that stayed put under pressure ,banjo was one of the most cussed and discussed dog by breeders back then ,the same can be said about track man ,ratt attack tar rattler lipper , human nature and a mans ego are hard to over come in t6he breeding pen ,,

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Old Post 02-18-2020 10:02 AM
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thomasg
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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:
Originally posted by nitehunter2004
JMO
Nailor, and we all know his bloodline but never talked about because a few people point at a shiny object in the other direction, Nailor was Big, Loud, Good looking, Lazy, Slick treeing son of a gun, he even died under a slick tree, then comes Nocturnal Style, then comes Trackman an Superman an the rest is history Or what you guys been talking about. JMO.

nailors grand dam on the bottom side rockers banjo style babe goes back to johnsons banjo 23 times in her extended pedigree ,ole banjo was the first stud dog that I heard of that passed the dominate classy tree dogs traits to almost every dog he covered , he was line breed by some because it is human nature when you see something you like to go out and get as much of it as you can ,it wasn't long till folks with all the heavy banjo blood were looking up empty trees , the 70 % dogs were accepted and even coveted because they sounded good were classy bug eyed slobber slinging buggers that stayed put under pressure ,banjo was one of the most cussed and discussed dog by breeders back then ,the same can be said about track man ,ratt attack tar rattler lipper , human nature and a mans ego are hard to over come in the breeding pen ,,

Last edited by thomasg on 02-18-2020 at 02:09 PM

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Old Post 02-18-2020 10:02 AM
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yadkintar
Banned

Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 10790

quote:
Originally posted by thomasg
nailors grand dam on the bottom side rockers banjo style babe goes back to johnsons banjo 23 times in her extended pedigree ,ole banjo was the first stud dog that I heard of that passed the dominate classy tree dogs traits to almost every dog he covered ,so he was line breed by some because it is human nature when you see something you like to go out and get as much of it as you can ,it wasn't long till folks with all the heavy banjo blood were looking up empty trees , the 70 % dogs were accepted and even coveted because they sounded good were classy bug eyed slobber slinging buggers that stayed put under pressure ,banjo was one of the most cussed and discussed dog by breeders back then ,the same can be said about track man ,ratt attack tar rattler lipper , human nature and a mans ego are hard to over come in the breeding pen ,,



You read this somewhere or did you just dream it up ? Rattler had people driving accross the country paying $1,000 stud fee and $2,500 for an 8 month old started dog. That was when a $1,000 was a lot of money. Fast as we could get them started. Some of the best crosses was rattler x lipper. I owned a grchgrntch $$$ ch out of nailor and a rattler female that was stout with coons. I owned a $$$ world champ platinum ch that was stout with coons out of a dog that was a rattler x lipper cross . I owned a gchgntch $$$ ch double grandson to rattler he had more Finley river than you ever seen up close and ozark preacher 3 times that was stout with a coon. And the female I am hunting now has all those dogs in her pedigree. You need to quit spreading gloom and doom about somthing you never seen I seen !!




Tar

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Old Post 02-18-2020 12:26 PM
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Granular
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Registered: Jul 2017
Location: Midwest
Posts: 41

.

Last edited by Granular on 02-03-2021 at 01:38 AM

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Old Post 02-18-2020 07:04 PM
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yadkintar
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quote:
Originally posted by Granular
I think he may have read it somewhere.

I read where the Friday night registered winner at the Winter Classic was a young Rat/Trackman/Harry bred dog with 850+ (February with no leaves, how could this be)?




And the female I am hunting now has rat and Harry in her also bad as I hate to say it lol.


Tar

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Old Post 02-18-2020 08:39 PM
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thomasg
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Registered: Apr 2014
Location: batsville ark
Posts: 1110

quote:
Originally posted by Granular
I think he may have read it somewhere.

I read where the Friday night registered winner at the Winter Classic was a young Rat/Trackman/Harry bred dog with 850+ (February with no leaves, how could this be)?

241 walkers hunted the winter classic ,congratulations to the 32 that competed and had cast wins , over all the walker hounds had a tuff time at the classic winning 13 percent of their cast , what I find more interesting is the x-bred hunted 27 dogs ,6 won their cast and finished at 22 percent ,I think this trend will continue with forward thinking breeders producing a new generation of hounds ,

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Old Post 02-20-2020 08:33 AM
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Granular
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delete

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Old Post 02-20-2020 02:51 PM
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Granular
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congratulations to all involved

Last edited by Granular on 02-20-2020 at 06:27 PM

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Old Post 02-20-2020 03:04 PM
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Robert Starke
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Registered: Jan 2006
Location: Missouri
Posts: 1728

Old Blood

Hi,

Don't want nothing to do with the "New Generation" dogs. I will stick to the same old bloodline of dogs I have had or 44 years. Bark when you feed them, strangers com around the house, or you turn your light on to go hunting.

Good Hunting,
Robert

__________________
Gr. Ch. UKC 1st place win Finley River Zig HTX
Gr Ch Starke's Finley River Trap 2015 6th Annual Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Hunt and Show Ch female Overall female and Opposite Sex winner

Gr. Ch. Nt. Ch. Wild Bill's Lill 21.05% reproduction record
Starke's Finley River Little Lill
Dual Gr. Ch. Wild Bill's Queen UKC RQE 112 winner 725+ 2006 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Rattler 2
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sadie
Gr.Ch.Nt.Ch.TrackMan's Stone Cold HTX 2009 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2009 UKC World Hunt Zone 5 Hunt 14th place 2011 UKC World Hunt qualifier
Dual Ch. PKC Ch.Track Man's Mad Dash 2007 PKC SS qualifier 2008 UKC World Hunt qualifier 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year 2011 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club Final Hunt winner 2012 MCHF Youth State Championship 2nd place 2012 Ringtail Lodge Coon Club High Scoring Dog of the Year
Gr. Ch. Finley River Cadillac Jane 2006 PKC Walker Days BOSF 2006 UKC RQE 74 Ch winner 2006 Trackman Invitational Queen of Show 2007 MCHF State Hunt Ch. female winner
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Cozi
Gr Nt Ch Starke's Finley River Super Man HTX 2017 Mid Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF Dick Gray Memorial Hunt High Scoring Dog and King of the Hunt 2018 Mid-Mo Coonhunters Hunt Series Champion 2018 MCHF State Final Hunt the only double cast winner Final Four 3rd place winner 2019 BBCHA Sectional Madison, MO Gr Nt Ch/ Nt Ch Cast winner and High Scoring dog 2019 BBOA Richard Casey Tribute Hunt High Scoring Dog 750+ Thursday night and 825+ Friday night 2019 MCHF State Final Hunt Final Four 2nd place winner 2020 UKC World Hunt Qualifier at Marshall, MO March 21st

Dual Gr Ch Wild Bill's April 2016 UKC RQE 97 Ch winner

Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Jane 2006 UKC RQE 74 Gr Ch winner
Gr. Ch. Starke's Finley River Sugar 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Ch of Ch winner
Starke's Finley River Jake
Hoghill's Finley River Rip
Hoghill's Finley River Candie

Starke's Finley River Stubbie
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Tuff
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Steel
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Fame

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Jane
Gr Ch Starke's Finley River Ramblin Iron Man
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Bat Man

Starke's Finley River Ramblin Tanna
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Starke's Finley River Stormy
Clark's Finley River Spot PKC cast / money winner
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Starke's Finley River Ramblin Sugar Boy
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Randi
Starke's Finley River Ramblin Little Emma

Gr.Ch. Starke's Table Rock Jewell 2007 RQE 5 BOSF winner 2007 MCHF State Hunt BOSF winner 2009 RQE 28 Best of Show female winner 2009 MCHF State Hunt Ch of Ch Female winner 2010 MCHF State Hunt Gr Ch winner and Queen of Show 2010 Alan Reinkemeyer Memorial Queen of Show 2011 Gr Ch Louisiana State Championship 2012 NE Missouri Black & Tan Sectional Gr. Ch. female 2012 MCHF Spring Classic Gr Ch female 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch winner 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr Ch winner 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2012 UKC Current Top 10 2012 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year

Gr Ch Little Walnut Queen Bathsheba 2011 SWTWA BFOS and Queen of Show 2011 MCHA State Hunt BFOS 2011 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show BFOS 2012 MCHF State Hunt Ch Female and Queen of Show 2012 Oklahoma Federation State Hunt and Show Ch. Female 2012 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 TWB&F Walker Days Gr. Ch. female and Queen of Show 2013 Kentucky State Championship Gr. Ch. female and Opposite Sex winner 2013 Purina Nationals qualifier 2013 ACHA World Hunt and Show BFOS 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 Lee Crawford Invitaional qualifier
Gr Ch Little Walnut Zipporah

Gr Ch A & B Preacher 2012 Saluda Days King of Show 2013 MCHF State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2013 MO Governor's Cup State Hunt Ch. winner and King of Show 2014 RQE #11 Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Purina Nationals qualifier 2014 SWTWA Gr. Ch. winner 2014 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier 2014 Kansas State Championship Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 UKC's Top 10 List 2014 Purina's Bench Show Top Ten List 2014 MCHF Summer Classic Gr. Ch. winner both days 2014 MCHF Summer Classic King of Show 2014 MCHF State Hunt and Show GR. Ch. Winner Friday 2014 MCHF Missouri State Show Dog of the Year 2015 Purina Nationals qualifier 2015 Kansas State Championship Friday Gr Ch winner 2016 Purina Nationals qualifier

Gr Ch Table Rock Reverend Mundo Hawk 2010 MCHF State Hunt Best Male of Show 2011 MCHF Spring Classic Gr. Ch. male and King of Show 2011 UKC RQE 88 Gr Ch male 2012 UKC RQE 87 Gr Ch male 2012 NE Missouri Treeing Walker Sectional Gr. Ch. male and King Of Show 2012 MCHF Dick Gray Summer Classic Gr. Ch. male 2012 Lee Crawford Invitational qualifier


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