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barnescreek
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Registered: Mar 2017
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Big Country’s long lost littermate

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Z1SBU9W22v0

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Old Post 09-12-2019 12:14 AM
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Dave Richards
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Registered: Apr 2015
Location: church hill tn
Posts: 3270

Mr. Lambert

Why did you make a comment about me being a breeder? I have never made a statement or post that would lead anyone to believe that I am a breeder. Now, I have been witness to several dog men and their breeding program, and am at least familiar with the subject. One does not have to be a breeder to understand certain things about breeds. Anyone can breed dogs and sell pups, does that make someone an expert? I don't get caught up in all this purebred malarkey, I know enough about genetics to say that breeding is a crapshoot at the best. All purebred means is that an animal should breed true regarding certain traits, color being one of these traits. One should know that any impurities will eventually show up in the offspring. If breeding was an exact science, the coonhound world would be full of outstanding dogs and we all know that's not the case. Look at all of the all grand pedigree dogs we have now and how has that gone? Some crosses purebred or not just wind up with the right combination of genes that we desire in a coondog and if put in the right hands, make those exceptional dogs that we all want. Purebred is just a marketing tool and a lot of folks have bought into the idea that purebred is somehow superior to mixed breed. It sells pups and makes money for the registries........ wait we can now register crossbreds and sell their pups. Life is good. Anyway Mr. Lambert, we got you off the sky's falling rule change topic. Lol. Dave

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Old Post 09-12-2019 12:25 AM
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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
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I tell you fellas this . Friend of mine bred his walker male to a blue tick female. He ended up getting 2 males from the litter . In my eyes it would be hard to find a more finer looking, built hound than them two. Don’t know how their turning out yet. Show people probably wouldn’t except it though. If big country is as nice as people are saying I would breed a good walker female to him in a minute.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 12:45 AM
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Dave Richards
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Sgraves

That would be a good cross, there have been some really good coondog from s bluetick and walker cross. I am pleased that UKC allows crossbreds to be registered and hunted in the hunts. This allows us to breed coondog to coondog, just like in the old days, without penalty of not being able to register or hunt in the hunts. I believe you will see a lot more crossbreds digs as time goes by. We all can benefit from certain traits exhibited by the different hound breeds by crossing them. Dave

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Old Post 09-12-2019 12:58 AM
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novicane65
UKC Forum Member

Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1175

quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
I tell you fellas this . Friend of mine bred his walker male to a blue tick female. He ended up getting 2 males from the litter . In my eyes it would be hard to find a more finer looking, built hound than them two. Don’t know how their turning out yet. Show people probably wouldn’t except it though. If big country is as nice as people are saying I would breed a good walker female to him in a minute.


Ashley Oxedine bred Heels to Country, Steve Burkholder a Bad habit bred bitch to country, Wes Hamilton bred Ruby to Country. To my knowledge when Wes made the cross Country wasn't the best known yet. I'm 300% positive Wes got asked 1000's of questions about why he bred to him. I can say I haven't seen any pup out of that cross you can buy yet. They're still young yet 8 or 9 months old I think.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 01:36 AM
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Dave Richards
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Eric

That is exactly why I am passionate about the cross breed program, it enables these kind of crosses that work to be made without penalty. You can sell the pups as registered and hunt them in the hunts. These crosses allow us to breed for certain traits that we desire outside of our choosen breed. Hard time speck is a prime example of why we should make these crosses he put a lot back in the English breed. Yes, I know he was registered as an English, but he was all Walker. Dave

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Old Post 09-12-2019 01:47 AM
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Sgraves
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Is that the same heels Eric Henry hunted

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Old Post 09-12-2019 01:54 AM
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turman
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Registered: Aug 2007
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Isn't this exactly what the big game guys have been doing for years. Breeding the best to the best sure won't hurt the dogs.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 11:42 AM
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yadkinriver
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Registered: Aug 2003
Location: Yadkin County NC
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I bred purebred dogs for 40 years and was proud of the "PR" in front of the dogs name. But too I was also proud to be a part of a registry that boasted of purebred dogs. Guess I'm just old and contrary. If people can crossbreed outside their race as much as they are' why not dogs?

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Old Post 09-12-2019 11:55 AM
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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
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quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
Is that the same heels Eric Henry hunted



YES......... He sold her at a hunt, she pissed him off and Ashley made an offer on her.

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Eric DePue

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Old Post 09-12-2019 12:36 PM
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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
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Re: Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
That is exactly why I am passionate about the cross breed program, it enables these kind of crosses that work to be made without penalty. You can sell the pups as registered and hunt them in the hunts. These crosses allow us to breed for certain traits that we desire outside of our choosen breed. Hard time speck is a prime example of why we should make these crosses he put a lot back in the English breed. Yes, I know he was registered as an English, but he was all Walker. Dave



Absolutely, if you need a stronger trait but can't seem to find it in your desired breed where would you go? They are all coonhounds. Half Time Ruby isn't a "PR" dog, she's won over 100k. I'd say she's a good example of why cross breds can work, and work well. I personally don't care if the dog is green or purple with pock-a-dots. I know what works for me in my area. But what works for me might not work for you. That's why there's a big controversy over what a "coondawg" is. And yes for the last 50 years the English breed has been taking all of the dogs from the bluetick and walkers that didn't meet breed standards. Speck surely isn't the only 1 that got put in that breed, but he's probably the most famous of them.

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Eric DePue

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Old Post 09-12-2019 12:49 PM
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Dave Richards
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Eric

Bird dog, fox hound, cur, stag hound, all of this blood has been responsible in shaping the hounds that we know today. When traits that we desire start fading out if a breed, or getting weak, it has to be put back in or be lost. Big game hunters are not blinded by a set of papers, they demand results and breed for what works for them. UKC has at least opened the door for cross breeding without penalty, a step in the right direction. Dave

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Old Post 09-12-2019 04:00 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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Re: Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Dave Richards
Bird dog, fox hound, cur, stag hound, all of this blood has been responsible in shaping the hounds that we know today....... UKC has at least opened the door for cross breeding without penalty, a step in the right direction. Dave


Oh my goodness Mr Dave, are you saying that we can now breed our coonhound to a foxhound, stag hound, bird dog or cur dog and UKC register them without penalty?

Do you really think that because people are doing something that is illegal that we should just legalize it? There was a reason that we had a rule against cross breeding. Do you not know why we had it? Some didn't like the rule so they found ways around it. I have never understood it but some convinced UKC that the solution to enforcing the rule was to just do away with it. Do y'all think that because a lot of people drive over the speed limit because they get in a hurry, that we should just do away with speed limits:

Last edited by Richard Lambert on 09-12-2019 at 04:57 PM

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Old Post 09-12-2019 04:47 PM
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Sgraves
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Registered: Dec 2017
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Re: Re: Eric

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Oh my goodness Mr Dave, are you saying that we can now breed our coonhound to a foxhound, stag hound, bird dog or cur dog and UKC register them without penalty?
Richard, do you a carry a chit slinging stick with you everywhere you go? 😂😂

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Old Post 09-12-2019 04:55 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Mr Graves, I have been trying to hold back but sometimes it is so blaring that I can't help myself.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 05:00 PM
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yadkintar
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Registered: Jan 2013
Location: Marietta
Posts: 9334

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Mr Graves, I have been trying to hold back but sometimes it is so blaring that I can't help myself.



Natural bob tailed redbone he said !


Known trait of the T Top bloodline he said !!


Not the breed standreds but he breeds it anyways !!



Hmmmmmmmm,mm,mmm,mm !


Tarbaby

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Old Post 09-12-2019 05:05 PM
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yadkinriver
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Location: Yadkin County NC
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registering mix breed dogs has been going on for a long time. Only thing different is you had to single register your dog to whichever breed that your dog fit the standards on then you could breed to that breed for three generations and go from a yellow set of single registered papers to a set of purple pr papers.
Personally I'm thankful for the breeders that stay within a breed or even more specificly stay within a strain within a breed. Quiet a few still do and are successful at it. Probably the most popular are the Finley River dogs, Smokey River dogs, Skuna River dogs and yes Yadkin River dogs. These are what I consider true breeders.
Now I can understand UKC's registering xbreed dogs as a good business. There is more money to be made by registering a litter of accidents or purpose bred xbreeds than single registering the only good dog out of a litter of xbreds.
Is the Country bluetick that is getting so much attention xbred?
Just saying with a little knowledge and homework it can be done within a breed.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 05:22 PM
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Richard Lambert
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Location: Chattanooga, Tn
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quote:
Originally posted by yadkintar
Natural bob tailed redbone he said !
Known trait of the T Top bloodline he said !!
Not the breed standreds but he breeds it anyways !!
Hmmmmmmmm,mm,mmm,mm !
Tarbaby



Good post Tarbaby, when you don't know what you are talking about just make something up.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 05:29 PM
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novicane65
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Registered: Dec 2013
Location: Nichols Ny
Posts: 1175

quote:
Originally posted by Richard Lambert
Good post Tarbaby, when you don't know what you are talking about just make something up.


Exactly what seems to happen on more than just this 1 post by more than just Tar. You do it too.......or did you forget about your racehorse analogy?

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Eric DePue

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Old Post 09-12-2019 05:51 PM
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ov_blues
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Registered: Feb 2007
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quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Ashley Oxedine bred Heels to Country, Steve Burkholder a Bad habit bred bitch to country, Wes Hamilton bred Ruby to Country. To my knowledge when Wes made the cross Country wasn't the best known yet. I'm 300% positive Wes got asked 1000's of questions about why he bred to him. I can say I haven't seen any pup out of that cross you can buy yet. They're still young yet 8 or 9 months old I think.


Not familiar with the Walker side of Sambo, but Sambo's sire was out of a lot of the same stock as Big Country is. If I wasn't semi retired from coon hunting I'd be trying to get me some more of that blood and wouldn't be against mixing it in with Walker blood.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 06:00 PM
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Sgraves
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quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
Not familiar with the Walker side of Sambo, but Sambo's sire was out of a lot of the same stock as Big Country is. If I wasn't semi retired from coon hunting I'd be trying to get me some more of that blood and wouldn't be against mixing it in with Walker blood.
Johnny Brown owns big country’s daddy does he not.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 06:26 PM
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ov_blues
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quote:
Originally posted by Sgraves
Johnny Brown owns big country’s daddy does he not.


Yes he owns Bocephus. Big Country is out of him and Country's mother was out of the same blood as Sambo's sire.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 07:15 PM
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novicane65
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quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
Yes he owns Bocephus. Big Country is out of him and Country's mother was out of the same blood as Sambo's sire.


Which should be out of McDonald's stock correct?

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Eric DePue

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Old Post 09-12-2019 07:23 PM
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ov_blues
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quote:
Originally posted by novicane65
Which should be out of McDonald's stock correct?


Correct. Which include a couple of littermates to Rambo II who was more recognized but the proof is in the pudding on what his siblings are also bringing to the table. Big Country's sire was out of Saline Sadie (top 4 in the UKC world one year and top 20 the next year) who was out of Rambo II. Big Country's sire was Bocephus who placed I think 5th in the World Hunt. His sire Bodacious also placed high at a UKC World Hunt (maybe top 4 but I can't remember for sure). Bottom line is that Big Country isn't an accident and the guys breeding those Walker females (and other breeds) have seen and heard enough about him to know he is the real deal and isn't an accident.

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Old Post 09-12-2019 07:50 PM
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Sgraves
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quote:
Originally posted by ov_blues
Correct. Which include a couple of littermates to Rambo II who was more recognized but the proof is in the pudding on what his siblings are also bringing to the table. Big Country's sire was out of Saline Sadie (top 4 in the UKC world one year and top 20 the next year) who was out of Rambo II. Big Country's sire was Bocephus who placed I think 5th in the World Hunt. His sire Bodacious also placed high at a UKC World Hunt (maybe top 4 but I can't remember for sure). Bottom line is that Big Country isn't an accident and the guys breeding those Walker females (and other breeds) have seen and heard enough about him to know he is the real deal and isn't an accident.
Remember the dog called bo Jackson . Does he go back to any of that? I liked him.

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