Rip
UKC Forum Member
Registered: Jun 2003
Location: Morrison TN
Posts: 4927 |
quote:
Originally posted by southernthunder
i agree you conspiracy theory guys need to call him yourself. maybe that way you won't have to question the one that did!
some of you are impossible!
Look I know that is what you want, you WANT to minus the dog becuse in your mind "it's just right". We are just different here because I frankly don't care, I just care about scoring it appropriately AS THE RULES ARE WRITTEN. Lots of things aren't right but have to be scored a certian way because of the written rules.
So you have to look at something called Heirchy. If there is a rule that describes a specific situation then that rule over rules the rest (just like no dog to get minus for coming in after the judge arrives, he can quit 15 tracks and come in and not get minused for quitting track because there is a rule for that specific situation that over rides it).
Now we have to look at this situation. Is there a rule about what happens when dogs go back to a previously scored tree? Yes there is so that means it comes in on top of everything else. It is the most important rule. That rule says NO POINTS. No points means none, not plus, minus or circle NONE will be awarded on a previously scored tree. So that pretty much settles it right there. The tree rules would be secondary to this rule because this rule is for a specific situation. Until you know the dogs are on the previously scored tree then the dogs would be subject to minus, but as soon as you KNOW (not think but KNOW as in see with your own eyes) that they are on a previously scored tree then you have to delete the points.
Then you see the advisor saying that yes strike points are deleted even though the dogs weren't handled because NO POINTS are to go on a previously scored tree. So we have precidence there that dogs indeed do NOT have to be handled for those points to be deleted, reason would say tree points would be handled the same as strike since the rule is very clear and says NO POINTS.
Now the only way we can score those dogs minus is IF there is a previous advisor on this making the ruling that they have to be handled if they are declared treed. I fully admit that I can't remember every single advisor and this is a POSSIBILITY, but without that, unless and until Allen or Todd make a ruling to that effect then we MUST delete those points as soon as the dogs are seen to be at a previously scored tree.
If Todd or Allen decide that today and make it official then that's the way it is, but that would apply from today foward and yesterday the correct way to score it would have been delete (again unless there already has been an official ruling earlier on this that we don't know about).
I'm not trying to be smart or anything. Just trying to be accurate and sometimes our hands are tied with the way the rules are written and what the english language means (such as NO means NO).
It's kind of like when UKC first published their rule allowing us to release treed dogs instead of them being leash locked. The rule SAYS a dog has to be struck in. That's not how UKC meant it and they were quick with a ruling stating that just having a dog competing for strike was enough to release them. UNTIL they made that ruling the correct thing was that a dog had to be struck in. Now you don't have to do that.
It may be the same thing here. I doubt very seriously they meant for a dog to be able to leave a tree and not get minused for it when they wrote that rule, but it is written that way and it says nothing about dogs having to be handled. Therefore, until they have an official ruling otherwise those points are deleted as soon as you see the dogs on a previously scored tree. Just like they are at the end of the hunt, or on a dog that is shut out etc.
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10-03-2012 03:03 AM
