Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 235

THANK YOU Corey...just got home from work and didn't read your post clearly the first time. I agree 100% and happy with UKC's standing on helping many of our breeding program. Like Wade and his Pebble cross not expecting to happen what did happen, I didn't expect the outcome of my litter either. I have some thoughts that will be sharing at our local clubs, there are ways to handle situations but like a flood, it must first start out as a shower.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Aug 2012
Location: west central indiana
Posts: 1811

quote:

---

Originally posted by Wade Kuhns
That big red and white dog is out of Grntch Wade's Big Red HTX and Grntch Locked and Loaded Pebble. That litter surprised us all. I have told everybody that has ever bred to Red that he throws white chest and toes and occasionally a black and Tan .I have also always took them hunting with Red ,often the same day as I bred their female ,and always treed coon . No excuses , lies or smoke screens here .I just plain like to hunt and always have . Red was truly the best reproducer of ,drive ,intellegence ,stay put tree dogs, hunt speed ,track speed and volume of any dog I have ever owned.Not all his pups make it ,but most ,at the very least make really nice coondogs.He also crossed the same on every single female no matter how they were bred.He's dead now but I'll always have some of his blood here. I would never try to push this stuff on anyone .I don't really care about that ,but I will back every dog that comes from my place and help you out if I can.I will say this though, in my experience most of the best dogs I have dealt with in the redone breed have thrown off colored dogs .Most are black and Tan ,lots of pups come out with white chest spots and a white toe or two.The x-breed program is great,instead of just culling for color you can at least give them a chance to see if they might turn out.If they suck ,cull them.I believe there should be a standard to adhere to as far as looks and hunt . However ,I'm not going to tell someone that shows a really good looking dog that they have a cull , redbones have won world show titles but have never won a world hunt yet.Everybody has something to contribute is all I'm saying.

---

__________________
Larry D Walker

Indiana

812-327-8224

Last edited by Larry D Walker on 02-10-2017 at 10:56 AM

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 235

Larry, as I was suggesting early on....it could very well have been the "cull" by the standard that was the hound was HUNTERS were trying to acheive for. As we have seen recently....Redbones have been much closer to that goal. It maybe an x-bred but we know it is a Redbone none the less.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Mar 2008
Location: central Pa.
Posts: 408

I have had a few litters from "PR" redbones that produced black and tan puppies, all were heavy Timber Chopper bred but one litter that was heavy Ace bred. The last ones were about 15 years ago ( i do not raise many litters now but the ones I do have not thrown any black and tans ). Back then most were double cross Timber Chopper - grandson to grand daughter , grandson to niece and so on, and most were in the late 70's , early 80's when you could still get up close to old TC. Back then they were common ( black puppy's ) in this area anyhow. I never kept any but I gave them to grade dog hunters and they loved them, once again it wasn't uncommon to have as many grade dogs in a hunt as there were registered dogs entered. At this time I could not get the drive I was looking for in the red dogs, most were tree dogs but lacked drive. Finally in 1978 I got a red female that had drive and was a top notch coon dog, get in the dark and get treed, this led me in later years to cross TC bred dogs to Fireball bred dogs, I achieved the drive and tree power I was searching for. I discussed this with Ralph Snyder to great length , Ralph raised a lot of heavy bred TC pups and he said that you could expect to get black ones from time to time. Ralph owned the first redbone female to make nt ch in New York , I believe around 1959 or 1960, He was a devoted redbone breeder.

__________________
bill lash

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Jun 2005
Location: Prince Edward Island,Canada
Posts: 4589

any of you who have had litters of black & tan Redbones have you have any that were black & tan(black & red) that turned red with age?

__________________
Autumn Clements

'PR'LEAD'S MIDNITE SASSY
CFC CH Canadian GCH Multi Group Placing MBPIG BBPIG LEGACYK STANNYFIELD PRIME TIME (AKC & UKC Pointed)
BPIG MBBPIG WINDAMIRS RED LIGHT DISTRICT V AMBERLANE
LEGACYK DARE TO DREAM V CBLUES
LEGACYK WHITE AS A GHOST V CBLUES

Gone but not forgotten
GRNITECH GRCH PKC CH'PR'CLEMENTS' BLUE PRANCER
GRNITECH GRCH'PR'SPIKE'S TWILITE HOOKER
'PR'PRANCER'S GETTIN DOWN N DIRTY (PrancerxHooker)
NITECH CH’PR’BUELL’S BLUE ROCKY(Whitey x Spice)
CKC BBPIG MARIES BABY BREEZE

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 235

My 3 males didn't...they were the same from birth to 8 months old.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Nov 2007
Location: SW Arkansas
Posts: 1275

Most of the natural colors that Redbone pups have can fade over time. However, when other breeds are introduced then in general those colors do not fade. So big white patches, Black and Tan, etc.... are going to stay that way. This is not high tan though as that is completely different than b&t. Also know what Bill is saying is the truth. And even closer than that another hound going back to that same line that several titled hounds are from had a b&t as it great grandmother and so it is in that line both in the past and more currently. Just like the white. Just a hint on that note. Most of the ones that have walker or another dog, cur or whatever, with a good bit of white added in very closely get very white faced as the get closer to the end of their life. Now think on that. Yes there are a pile of current hounds in several lines that fit this and most all the major ones I know of I also know have Walker in them and most of them I know which one it was out of. Just is what it is. Wasn't about the x-bred stuff at all at first but at least this way we now have a better way of knowing what is truly there instead of all these hidden "ghost" Redbones and stuff in the closet. Now only trouble with that is when ya breed in Weimaraner as some have for more tree you are still going to have people trying to hide that stuff. However at least now when hounds are bred together we can truly know what is going on.

__________________
Home of where the Heaviest Fireball bred hounds there are come from.
And the closest ones alive to GrNtCh Oklahoma Twister (the #1 reproducing son of Fireball) and GrNtCh Yellow River Rocky (the #2 reproducing son of Fireball) . Thanks to alot of help from my friends.

Handler of:
NtCh GrCh "PR" Dan Langston (Has 2 wins towards GrNtCh in the hunts) ( 10yr old owner asked for me to bring him back to his home) (wouldn't sell) (Ch D8 Dozer (bear hound from all coondog stock, out of my breeding) x NtCh Music/ Kitty) (33% Fireball thru heavy line breeding the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded hound alive, who is hunt titled )

Home of:
'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady (GrNtCh. Barnyard Horse Harry x GrCh Daisy (was the highest Fireball blooded female alive)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Toes ('PR' Atomic Fireball's Fast Talker (nephew to Bookem Danno) x 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Harry Lady

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Dixie (NtCh GrCh. 'PR' Dan Langston x 'PR'Harry Lady)

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Two Toes (NtCh GrCh Dan Langston x Atomic Fireball's Toes
Didn't have the deep hunt style I like but is a solid coonhound. Been treeing her own since her second night in the woods at 8 months old.

Former home of:
(Qualified for the 2011 World Hunt) NtCh. 'PR'Swann's Lonesome Red Music/ Kitty RIP (NtCh.Twister's Musical Red Huey x NtCh. Sawblade Red Reckon) RIP

GrNtCh Fireball's Jackpot Jackie, highest placing Redbone female ever, in the UKC World Hunt . RIP

GrCh. 'PR' Atomic Fireball's Little Daisy RIP (Was the highest GrNtCh Fireball blooded female in the world at the time) (Qualified for the 2010 World Show).

'PR' Atomic Fireball's Red River (Daisy x Brown's Oklahoma Twister) RIP (heatstroke)

Ch. D-8 Dozer (Was the Highest blooded GrNtCh Fireball blooded male in the world until I had the GrNtCh Twister pups from here) Was sent to be bear hunted because of his size and me being disabled. RIP

First and only sons of the Old GrNtCh #7 Historical Reproducer Brown's Okl. Twister (the #1 Producing Son of Fireball) in 15 years..


http://atomicfireballkennels.webs.com/
http://forums.ukcdogs.com/showthrea...threadid=341228
Steve Bell

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged

Registered: Apr 2014
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 235

Right Steve. Many ASSUME its just us that hunt our hounds that will get those that doesn't meet the standard. Thanks to UKC we now have a way to cull our "problem".... it still can make a quality HUNTER, only x-bred. What happens when those that only show their dogs introduce a different breed to get the trait that they are trying to better their line with. I swear I've seen some with feet that ain't never been seen on a Redbone before. Could it be that they aren't being completely honest on their paperwork as well. Only registering those that meet the "standard" and culling those that don't. Just something to think about. I can't believe that the off traits is ONLY showing up in the hunting stock no matter what we are breeding for.

Report this post to a moderator | IP: Logged